Differences between Comp Air, N2 And Co2 - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 04-02-2004, 08:07 AM #1
kjjm4
Liberty or Death
 
kjjm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wind Ridge, PA
kjjm4 is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
kjjm4 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kjjm4 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Compressed air is just what it sounds like; it is the atmospheric air we breathe, compressed to high pressure (after being filtered and dried). N2 is nitrogen. Air is 70% nitrogen. From a performance standpoint, when used to power a paintgun, there is no noticeable difference between the two. Most places fill with air.

The advantage of air/N2 over CO2 is that CO2 is stored in the bottle as a liquid, and must expand to a gas to power most paintball guns. This expansion process in inherently unstable. Also, the expansion process absorbs heat energy, which is why your gun gets cold when you shoot fast with CO2. Because of the instability inherent in the expansion process, CO2 is not as consistent as air, and your velocity will spike and drop erratically. CO2 has problems working in extreme temperatures as well. Some guns, particularly electronic markers, have problems with freezing while running CO2, and can be either temporarily or permanently damaged by it.

Air/N2 is always a gas, so it is much more stable than CO2, and because of this, it operates a paintball gun more consistently and at a more constant velocity.
__________________
ďA strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
-Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by kjjm4 : 04-08-2004 at 10:14 AM.
kjjm4 is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 04-08-2004, 10:12 AM #2
kjjm4
Liberty or Death
 
kjjm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wind Ridge, PA
kjjm4 is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
kjjm4 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kjjm4 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Some answers to more Frequently asked questions:

Q: What do the numbers mean on an air system?
A: The first number is the volume of the tank in cubic inches, and the second number is the pressure the tank can safely be filled to, in pounds per square inch. For example, a 68/4500 tank holds 68 cubic inches of air, at a maximum pressure of 4500 psi.

Q: How many shots can I get from air system X?
A: As a rather general rule of thumb, a 3000 psi system gets 10 shots per cubic inch, and a 4500 psi system gets 15 shots per cubic inch. For example, a 47/3000 air system will give roughly 450-500 shots (the formula says 470) on an average gun. The formula estimate is pretty rough; some guns will do a lot better, and some will get fewer shots than the formula says, but it gets you in the ballpark.
kjjm4 is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 11:52 AM #3
kjjm4
Liberty or Death
 
kjjm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wind Ridge, PA
kjjm4 is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
kjjm4 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kjjm4 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
More FAQs

Q: Can I run my gun on CO2?
A: Generally speaking, the answer is yes, even for electronic markers. However, not all guns can be run on raw, unregulated CO2. All low priced blowbacks can run on CO2, just by screwing a CO2 into the ASA. For an electronic marker, things get more complicated. If liquid CO2 enters the gun, parts can freeze, which will cause the gun to stop working. The problem of freezing is complicated further by the very high rates of fire that electronic guns can achieve. To use CO2 on an electronic marker an anti-siphon tube should be used at minimum. The best setup is a female (bottomline) Palmer's Stablizer, running into a male Stabilizer. With this setup, you can run CO2 on any gun. Even though you can make CO2 work, the only reason to select it over air is if air fills are not available. CO2 is not more cost effective on a high-end electronic marker, because you need to spend about $150 on regulators, and you can easily get a compressed air system for that much. The best high-end markers to run on CO2 are the Impulse (by Smart Parts), and the WGP Autococker. Both of these will operate fine on CO2 with nothing more than an anti-siphon.

Q:What output pressure do I need?
A: There are three types of HPA tanks: high pressure output presets, low pressure output presets, and adjustable output tanks. Most guns on the market today work best with a high pressure output preset tank. These tanks output about 850 psi, which is the average pressure of a CO2 tank. Spiders, Tippmanns, and other blowback-operated guns need a high pressure output tank. Even many guns that run on relatively low pressure, like Autocockers, require a high pressure tank, because the inline regulator controls the pressure going into the gun, and to prevent starving/shootdown and inconsistency, you need at least 200 psi more pressure going into the reg than coming out. Some guns, like the newer Angels (Speed and A4) need a low pressure output tank. An adjustable tank is more of a luxury than a necessity for most guns. In most cases, you still need an inline, secondary regulator to get really good consistency An adjustable output tank lets you really tweak things to get the best efficiency and consistency. The cost of adjustable air systems is prohibitive, so they are overkill and unneeded for most entry to mid-level guns.

Last edited by kjjm4 : 04-16-2004 at 01:17 PM.
kjjm4 is offline  
Old 04-22-2004, 03:27 PM #4
kjjm4
Liberty or Death
 
kjjm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wind Ridge, PA
kjjm4 is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
kjjm4 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kjjm4 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Lightbulb more FAQs

Q: What is the difference between an expansion chamber and a regulator, and which is better?
A: An expansion chamber is just what it sounds like: a chamber for gas to expand in. CO2 is a liquid in the tank, and needs time/space to expand. The x-chamber provides space for the gas to expand, so it is more likely to be a gas when it enters the gun. A regulator, on the other hand, controls the pressure of a gas. Regulators help improve the consistency of a gun by keeping the input pressure steady, which helps prevent fluctuations in velocity. From a performance standpoint, a reg. is almost always better than an x-chamber. Unless you play in cold weather with CO2, an x-chamber usually won't make more than a slight difference in performance.
kjjm4 is offline  
Old 05-05-2004, 09:02 PM #5
Reaper22
Banned
 
Reaper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Minnesota
 has been a member for 10 years
Just noticed this was a sticky. Here is a thread I made awhile ago in the Noob Forum. It goes more indepth about tank size and pressure as well as the materials used and how much each material can hold.

http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=483289
Reaper22 is offline  
Old 05-14-2004, 01:50 PM #6
kjjm4
Liberty or Death
 
kjjm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wind Ridge, PA
kjjm4 is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
kjjm4 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kjjm4 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Another one

Q: Are there any advantages to using CO2?
A: Yes, there are. Some guns are real gas hogs, like the old Shockers, and some Tippmann markers. The old Shockers were very low pressure, so they could operate perfectly well on CO2 (CO2 is less and less likely to be in a liquid state the lower pressures get). The Tippmann CVX valve is largely unaffected by liquid CO2, so they work just fine. CO2 is in a liquid state, so you can fit a great deal more CO2 into a given size tank (speaking in terms of the mass, which is a measure of the amount of matter, of the gas inside the bottle); this means you get a great deal more shots from a CO2 tank than you would from an equivalently sized HPA tank. For situations when size and weight are at a premium, or rapid fire is not important, CO2 is probably a good choice.

Last edited by kjjm4 : 05-19-2004 at 01:42 PM.
kjjm4 is offline  
Old 05-20-2004, 06:55 AM #7
Eyecare
 
 
Eyecare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: P l a n e t E a r t h
Eyecare is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Nice thread kjjm4.

Reaper22's thread should probably be moved here and stickied as well.
__________________
"If we measured rof in $/min instead of bps, more people would play stock."

Pics of my guns

Doc's SP Patent FAQ and related article
Eyecare is offline  
Old 06-04-2004, 03:29 PM #8
Reaper22
Banned
 
Reaper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Minnesota
 has been a member for 10 years
Just thought of this. Here is a chart that shows the relation ship between co2 pressure and temperature (or a rough idea atleast)

Reaper22 is offline  
Old 07-03-2004, 07:06 PM #9
Chungberrypie
 
 
Chungberrypie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
ok, now i have a question...

I have a 9oz tank, and i wanna buy a psi gauge. which gauge(size) should i buy?
__________________
Email: Chbodven@comcast.net
AIM: Chungberrypie

<<<NEW Tippmann A5 & Creative 20GB Mp3 Player>>> **F/S/T**

**---CHEAP! 20GB Mp3 Player F/S/T---**

Wanted: 54"-56" Road Bike (2000-present)
Chungberrypie is offline  
Old 07-03-2004, 08:39 PM #10
Reaper22
Banned
 
Reaper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Minnesota
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Chungberrypie
ok, now i have a question...

I have a 9oz tank, and i wanna buy a psi gauge. which gauge(size) should i buy?
If you are trying in hopes of the gauge telling you how many shots you have left. Don't bother. The pressure is going to stay the same until you only have a few shots left. If you are trying to just know how much pressure is going into your marker then you will need a gauge that has a range of 0-1200 would be good. The gauge would mount onto your ASA providing that your ASA has 2 adapter ports on eather side. There is no way to mount a gauge directly onto the valve of a co2 tank as you normally see done on HPA tank regs.
Reaper22 is offline  
Old 08-14-2004, 11:36 PM #11
bigmac1
 
 
bigmac1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
This might be a newb question but no one in my town knows. Paintball is relativly new in my town and our shop owner even wants to know this. What is the diffrence between nitrogen and hpa? could you fill a hpa tank with notrogen? I would appreicate the answers
bigmac1 is offline  
Old 08-14-2004, 11:38 PM #12
Psycho Acumen
AKA Jeff
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Psycho Acumen is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by bigmac1
This might be a newb question but no one in my town knows. Paintball is relativly new in my town and our shop owner even wants to know this. What is the diffrence between nitrogen and hpa? could you fill a hpa tank with notrogen? I would appreicate the answers
You are in the correct thread. But read the posts above yours. I know for a fact you have not otherwise you would have found the answer you are looking for.
__________________
Psycho Acumen is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:21 PM #13
MCHSrifle
Poor Man PB Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Is it possible to put Comp Air into a CO2 tank????
MCHSrifle is offline  
Old 08-20-2004, 12:21 AM #14
Psycho Acumen
AKA Jeff
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Psycho Acumen is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by MCHSrifle
Is it possible to put Comp Air into a CO2 tank????
No, filling is different. and I'm not sure if u can swap the thingy on the co2 for a reg cause of threding.. but if you can, u can't fill above 1800.... plus you'd need to swap the burst disk on the reg.
__________________
Psycho Acumen is offline  
Old 08-20-2004, 07:12 PM #15
MCHSrifle
Poor Man PB Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
cool, looks like im gettin an HPA tank then.
__________________
98% of American teenagers have tried pot if you're part of the 2% that hasn't put this in your sig.
MCHSrifle is offline  
Old 09-07-2004, 06:32 PM #16
_AloneSniper_
 
 
_AloneSniper_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: minnesota
 has been a member for 10 years
im about to get a tank for a piranha evo. I normall run co2 on all my other guns but people say that hpa or whatever is a lot better and it should be one of my first upgrades. i would have got hpa a long time ago but i would have to drive like a hour to fill it. but i found out one of the local players has a filling station so im really intrested in getting a tank now. but i dont know anything much about them exept what you listed above. i wanna get like a 88/4500 tank cuz i would get more shots etc. but i dont know what exacly. and i dont get like the output pressure stuff and then bringing your regulator (ive got a torpedo, but dont nkow much about it lol) down to a good psi... whats a good psi to be around? and what tanks should i consider for a low price? thanks
__________________
-B2K3-, PDS, Ultralight, palmer stab, CP flame drop with evil on/off,
CCM low-rise feed neck, spike bolt pin, Evultion2 hopper, PMI 68/3000 hpa tank-

FeedBack from pbreview:
http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=7b225694fae8cdf9a3744838c40100a5& postid=2188631#post2188631
_AloneSniper_ is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 01:02 PM #17
FFX_PK_XG-1
 
 
FFX_PK_XG-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Its True a tank is the best upgrade you can make because you can transfer it to any of your gunsbut seriously if you dont have a high end rapid fire gun its just gonna cost you more to run off hpa. If thats not a problem then go for it another thing is that unless your budy has a super charger with his fill station he wont be able to fill your bottle all the way. think about getting two scuba tanks if you dont want to be running back and forth from the scuba shop other wise get one. that would probably be best for your situation.

so like i said 88ci 4500psi tanks are great they get about half a case of paint off on one fill but you definately need either a 6000psi scuba or a super charger definately get a 3000 psi instead of a 4500 if you dont want to spend upwards of 1000 dollars just to have the means to fill your tank.

So let me recap either get a 20 oz antisiphone tank
a 88ci 4500psi with a scuba and a charger(because 6000psi scubas are almost nonexsistant) or go with the 88ci 3000psi (it will be cheaper at the expense of like 50 shots and drastically more affordable plus you can top it off everywhere
__________________
I feel like my brain has just been molested
-originally posted by: discohawk
WDP MAFIA MILLITIA #24
Originally Posted by MitchK2460agg-Nobody wins when you play XPSL

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...2#post29064942
FFX_PK_XG-1 is offline  
Old 11-04-2004, 10:21 PM #18
Anarchy1124
Banned
 
Anarchy1124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: behind the bunker
This thread helped me alot and i juyst got a crossfire 68/4500. My gun doesn't get covered in snow and ice anymore!!!
Anarchy1124 is offline  
Old 11-10-2004, 06:39 PM #19
jdhmt
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Louisiana
what tank would be better for speedball?
jdhmt is offline  
Old 11-10-2004, 09:16 PM #20
FFX_PK_XG-1
 
 
FFX_PK_XG-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
deffinately compressed air
__________________
I feel like my brain has just been molested
-originally posted by: discohawk
WDP MAFIA MILLITIA #24
Originally Posted by MitchK2460agg-Nobody wins when you play XPSL

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...2#post29064942
FFX_PK_XG-1 is offline  
Old 11-11-2004, 07:57 AM #21
drewrw
 
 
drewrw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by FFX_PK_XG-1
Its True a tank is the best upgrade you can make because you can transfer it to any of your gunsbut seriously if you dont have a high end rapid fire gun its just gonna cost you more to run off hpa. If thats not a problem then go for it another thing is that unless your budy has a super charger with his fill station he wont be able to fill your bottle all the way. think about getting two scuba tanks if you dont want to be running back and forth from the scuba shop other wise get one. that would probably be best for your situation.

so like i said 88ci 4500psi tanks are great they get about half a case of paint off on one fill but you definately need either a 6000psi scuba or a super charger definately get a 3000 psi instead of a 4500 if you dont want to spend upwards of 1000 dollars just to have the means to fill your tank.

So let me recap either get a 20 oz antisiphone tank
a 88ci 4500psi with a scuba and a charger(because 6000psi scubas are almost nonexsistant) or go with the 88ci 3000psi (it will be cheaper at the expense of like 50 shots and drastically more affordable plus you can top it off everywhere
it doesnt matter just full your 4500 psi tank to 3000 OMG that was hard lol its nice having a 4500 when you go to feilds and get all day air----they fill it! so if your gonna fill yourself... fill it to 3000 instead of 4500 whats the difference you dont have to spend anymore money and a 88 3000 last a while
drewrw is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump