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Old 03-10-2004, 09:43 PM #1
WarHamster
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SIM-4 or WG-65?

Alrighty guys. It's that time. I've been using my old Pirahna VTL for a few years now, and aside from a better barrel & such I feel stupid dropping hundreds of dollars on upgrades into a $100 gun I bought as a starter gun when I picked this sport up.

I'd REALLY like an Armotech gun like the SIM-4. However, now I'm hearing that the SIM-4's aren't real Armotech's, and that they're made by some breakaway employee or something. After doing a bit of searching I did indeed find the Armotech WG-65 by a different manufacturer. I've read good things about the WG-65 and nothing the SIM-4, so I ask these questions.

1.) Which gun is the rip off, the SIM-4 or the WG-65?

2.) If the SIM-4 is indeed the rip off as I am hearing it is, is it still a good quality gun (i.e. Has anyone actually USED it)?

3.) Does anyone have any specific comments on either of these two guns to an inquiring buyer?

I have a friend who works at action village and he can get me their $399 SIM-4 at 40% or 50% off of their price (whole-sale)with his discount, and since the warehouse is not far from me, I can just drive over and pick it up to save on shipping. So naturally I'm looking in that direction. However, if the WG-65 is the superior gun, is it so much better that it warrants spending a few hundred dollars more on it?

-Thanks guys; WarHamster
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Old 03-11-2004, 04:13 PM #2
ArmoMatt311
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well dude... both guns seem to be close ... as far as looks they are basically the same

The reciever (body) of the two guns are differnt .. the SIM-4 is clam shell and cocks at the top. The WG which I own is similar to the VM-68.

There is no real rip off... the dispute between the two companies is really between the name, "Armotech" , and who is legally allowed to use the name.

As far as the guns go .. get what you wish.. I choose not to support the .com/SIM-4 b/c I have seen with my own eyes many of lies by the company and know a lot about what they did and why.

I love my WG and have no problems with it ... its a solid marker and has many upgrade parts and more are being worked on as far as internals and so on. the WG has been around longer and has the true Armotech label on it and comes from the original manufacturer Speedpaintball Inc.

both markers use the same outside parts.. iv heard that a few people with the Sim-4 had RIS rails with the WG-65 logo on them which means the Sim4 people are sticking there old stock onto there "new" markers.

Also if you look at there page at .com you will read that they are no longer "selling" the WG instead of what they used to say.. that it was discontinued. maybe this will clear some of the confusion about the Zeus, WG, Mars, ect.. that are still in production.

anyways if you have any questions about the WG let me know.. and a really good way to find out and learn about the WG is to go to the Forum at Armotech.net , you wont see too much going on at the .com forum...
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Old 03-11-2004, 05:48 PM #3
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We are a dealer of the SIM-4 and used to sell the WG65. If you want an unbiased opinion call us at 877-6PAINTBALL or use E-mail or PM.

www.shorepaintballsupplies.com
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Old 03-11-2004, 08:12 PM #4
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I would say go with the WG-65 I just got one from www.expertshot.com, it is awsome, I tried it out last saturday and it was great, if you want to ask expertshot.com questions he posts on the armotech.us forums a lot.
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:46 PM #5
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Yes, go with WG65. Because SIM-4 has only 90 days warranty,
and they have very few accessories. I tried to call them,
no one answered the phone, very bad service at this company.
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Old 03-14-2004, 08:52 PM #6
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The SIM-4 probably has just as many accessories as the WG series. As for the warranty; it is only for manufacturing defects whicj should show up early. The "lifetime" warranty is not going to cover 99.95 % of the problems that will occur during use. Go with the SIM-4. As for the price I doubt you will get it for 50% off because there isn't that kind of markup on any paintball gun
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Old 03-15-2004, 03:06 PM #7
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SIM -4

I recently bought a sim-4, and dude, it pwns. i dropped it on a rock twice, i over used it with C02 and hp bottles. With C02 it has never frozen up, and it never broke in my hands. Its an pwnage gun, and yes, there are alot of accesories for it, go to www.armotech.com and go to products.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:56 PM #8
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" As for the warranty; it is only for manufacturing defects whicj should show up early. The "lifetime" warranty is not going to cover 99.95 % of the problems that will occur during use. "

What are you talking about????
Even Spyder offers one year warranty!
90 days?????? What **** is it?!
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Old 03-16-2004, 09:10 PM #9
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Let's face it. These paintball guns are used outside in all kinds of weather, submersed in water, get banged around, dropped, thrown, modified, and who knows what else. No company would offer a lifetime warranty unless they knew just about everything that could happen could be considered normal wear and tear or abuse by the owner. I agree that the SIM-4 shoud have the same warranty as other companies but don't expect to see manufacturing defects show up one year down the road.
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Old 03-17-2004, 02:37 AM #10
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What a ****!

WE MAKE NO EXPRESS WARRANTIES EXCEPT THOSE STATED IN THIS SECTION. ARMOTECH® MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, OF ANY KIND WITH RESPECT TO PRODUCTS SOLD, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO QUALITY, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. YOU AGREE THAT THE SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE MAXIMUM LIABILITY, TO ARMOTECH® ARISING FROM ANY PRODUCT SOLD, SHALL BE THE PRICE OF THE PRODUCT ORDERED. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO MODIFY THIS WARRANTY AT ANY TIME AT OUR SOLE DISCRETION. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY LASTS, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. TO THE EXTENT ANY PROVISONS OF WARRANTY IS PROHIBITED BY FEDERAL, STATE, OR MUNICIPAL LAW WHICH CANNOT BE PREEMPTED, SHALL NOT BE APPLICABLE. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS, AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS WHICH VARY FROM STATE TO STATE AND COUNTRY TO COUNTRY.
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Old 03-17-2004, 02:52 PM #11
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Armo trigger

OK, notwithstanding the Armotech . com .net .us thing, which trigger design would be the best? The WG65 is single and the SIM4 has the double. Also, the bolt pull on the SIM4 is much like the M16. I'm trying to help my dad decide which one to get. He's using my Tippy for now with a single trigger. But he's a Vet and likes the Armo design (couldn't give two sh*** about comnetus)
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:39 PM #12
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Check this:
www.warsensor.com
Much better than Armotech...
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:58 PM #13
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OK went to the site and they look good...never heard of them tho. How much are they? They didn't have prices.
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Old 03-17-2004, 11:21 PM #14
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ThompsonDude-

You might want to show your dad this one :Viper M1

It doesn't quite have the exact replica look of the Armotechs or Warsensors , but cheaper and less contraversy , and bonus built-in expansion chamber .
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Old 03-18-2004, 08:44 AM #15
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The Warsensors are not much different than the WG65. In fact they are made by the same people or in a business relationship with the people who make the WG65. The first WS66 had field strip pins on the barrel that loosened up after a one day. They made a fix for it but now you probably couldn't field strip the barrel
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Old 03-18-2004, 08:55 AM #16
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WOW! That's close enough to the look. Good price too. Man, it's hard for me to choose..I want them all. I know that some folks have a few different markers in their collection. Maybe it's time for me to start too. Thanks for that link. I'm glad I joined this forum b/c these brands are relatively unheard of at the fields.
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:57 PM #17
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well .. I don't know about the whole .com / .net etc stuff but I have a SIM-4 an besides small problems (the Tippy A5 is a much better gun) it is great ... it intimidates nearly everyone on the field.

-Mike
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Old 04-02-2004, 02:58 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by incinereight
well .. I don't know about the whole .com / .net etc stuff but I have a SIM-4 an besides small problems (the Tippy A5 is a much better gun) it is great ... it intimidates nearly everyone on the field.

-Mike
Now see if you had a WG-65 or WS-66 you wouldn't think the Tippy A5 was better than those
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Old 04-02-2004, 03:53 PM #19
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well, I have an A5 flatline with a R/T and the A5's come standard with the cyclone feed so... by better gun I mean higher ROF, better range, better accuracy, lighter than the SIM and an all around workhorse. Besides .. I have the SIM 4 RIS and anytime some kid with a rental decides to shoot me right in the RIS I gotta spend the entire next day taking it apart and cleaning out all the holes and ridges.

-M
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Old 04-02-2004, 07:38 PM #20
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kinda delayed from the begginging of the post but the wg-65 is the REAL one the sim4 is the knockoff dont get the sim4
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Old 04-03-2004, 08:09 AM #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by incinereight
well, I have an A5 flatline with a R/T and the A5's come standard with the cyclone feed so... by better gun I mean higher ROF, better range, better accuracy, lighter than the SIM and an all around workhorse.
-M
Exactly my point. The WS66's barrel blows the Flatline away, because it doesnt make the balls float when it shoots.

I agree the A5 has a higher ROF, and that it's lighter than the WG-65/66

WG-65 is far more accurate than my friend's A5. He's got an AA on his A5, my WG is totally stock.

Im in no way saying the A5 is a bad gun, dont get me wrong. But when you pay 400 for the Sim4, ur getting something with worse performance than a gun half its price (the A5)

If you spend that same 400 and got the WG-65, you would have a gun WORTH the extra 200 you payed
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