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Old 03-12-2004, 08:16 PM #64
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I know what youre saying, but in the world we live in now, stuff like that wont get by anymore. And no, I wasnt around for the good old shop glass days.
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Old 03-13-2004, 12:23 AM #65
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or how about chronoing by shooting at a box. if it went through it was too hot. now THAT is technology.
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:10 AM #66
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by saying a rof cap would end the technological side of paintball you are basically saing, all anyone does now is shoot as fast as possible no matter the cost. a paintball gun is not a simple pice of equipment and there are lots of ways to change/improve and innovate. look at spool valves, or where we went from old school blowbacks vs. cockers.even agd (even though im not a fan of em. for no real reason at all, but i still respcet them) it can happen, capping rof wont kill innovation.

as for cheater boards etc.... cheating in general, it is not the same as a holding call in football, or a foul in basketball. those can come about as accidents, or a player making, in a brief moment of decision, a bad choice. what happens in pb, is a deliberate, premeditated desire to cheat, to find ways around the rules. yes, its the same as roids, but the mlb has some issues to work out, for other sports, it means lifetime bans, revocation of wins, trophies, medals, etc... thats cheating, you pay a real price. making a dumb mistake in the middle of a game with only a brief moment to decide what to do...thats something you get penalized for, and it passes.

imo look to the gun manufacturers, look to the big names that sponsor teams and the different l's, they have to say look win, but do it right, we make more money being a clean sport and getting on tv, than winning but never getting wider recognition. there are big names out there everywhere, that cut corners, or just say screw it and forget the rules at all, for what? to win because you were able to out cheat the other guy? (that goes for every sport too). being able to out-cheat someone is not a good feeling, and it turns the competition of atheletes (which i know many of us like to be thought of) into a competition of hacks, techs and sketchy kids.....


:edit:oh yeah-lets take sp's word on how a timmy and dm4 ramp.....they are after all so trustworthy and kindhearted....its not just who answered its who the asker decided to ask....
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:43 PM #67
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If you guys think intimidators and especiall the frenzy ramp, talk to bob he will gladly show you otheriwse. He has a machine in the shop that hits the trigger how ever many times per second that you set the dial at. He started it at one/second and moved it up one bps all the way to 17 bps and the gun did not miss a number. His frenzy does not ramp. One thing that makes it seem like it ramps is the halo feeding balls and different rates. The halo doesn't consistantly feed 17 or 16 bps that rate drops to 13/14 and when it starts feed 17 again it might seem like the guns ramps.

Anyways if you are down at nipple in HB go talk to bob, he would love to show u the results. I mean why would bob cheat? he has the best gun on the market it serves no pupose.
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:51 AM #68
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well everyone if you have seen or herad about the robot that nppl is using it will show that most of these guns do ramp. i guess for now its a mute point with countless bickering on each side. only time will tell
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Old 03-22-2004, 12:28 PM #69
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Quote:
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well everyone if you have seen or herad about the robot that nppl is using it will show that most of these guns do ramp. i guess for now its a mute point with countless bickering on each side. only time will tell
Bull****. They tested the Frenzy board guns at HB and none of them ramped. That's rumours started by people with other agenda's and that can't compete.

I checked out the robot at HB.

As far as I know nobody EXCEPT Bob had the balls to put their guns onto the robot and get them tested. (also in part due to a shortage of laptops to run the thing. Bob actually found them a lap top to use to check his guns!).

They checked stock Alias/Empire guns out of the box, and they also picked on random people with Timmy's walking by (one of the Naughty Dogs guys I believe).

Guess what? They were all perfectly fine. There was no ramping or velocity change or speeding/ramping up of ROF. And the guns were still machine guns just like before.

So to all the rumours that came from two sources 1) the guy that thought he could write decent software but can't keep up anymore and 2) the company that invented cheater software... well it seems to have been proven as a case of sour grapes.

And as for the guy who apparently 'checked' the Alias boards with this robot (see number 1 above) and was making accusations at LA PSP... well apparently he's never even been to see the robot.. and some of his claims weren't even possible when tested with the robot... not the first time he's been proven to be full of **** either. You can't believe a word that comes out of that snake oil salesmans mouth.

Some names have been changed to protect the lieing rumour mongers.
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Old 03-22-2004, 09:36 PM #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by TeamXodus
At Huntington Beach many Alias's were bouncing not do to Trigger or board bounce but mechanical bounce. So bob made a new setting which he uploaded into all the Alias's at the event which is meant to stop Mechanical bounce. The Gun counters the Mechanical bounce by being less sensitive to kick is my guess. I dont know how it stops it but all the guns had absolutely no bounce after that. The setting is uploaded into the Menu and you select through it just like regular bounce but it is called MBNCE and you control your mechanical bounce.
Is this true?
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:08 AM #71
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11.02 The definition of a trigger is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the
finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi auto or pump mode only, which means that no more than one paintball is discharged during each shooting cycle.

The definition of FORCE:
The capacity to do work or cause physical change; energy, strength, or active power: the force of an explosion.

Power made operative against resistance; exertion: use force in driving a nail.
The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

Newtons 1st law states an object in motion stays in motion and an object at rest stays at rest, unless an object is acted on by an outside force.

Everyone unconsiously knows the Second Law. Everyone knows that heavier objects require more force to move the same distance as lighter objects. However the Second Law gives us an exact relationship between force, mass, and acceleration

Newtons 3rd law states every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Since the NPPL uses the term FORCE it can be stated that your finger being able to withstand the force of the montion from the trigger being brought back from its original position by either the micro switch, magnet or spring and return to the point of the micro switch, magnet or spring, your finger according to the accepted term FORCE and the definitions which have been proven over many years states that a trigger bouncing off your finger is an exertion of force .

NPPL and PSP are now fighting the laws of Physics.

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Old 03-28-2004, 09:25 PM #72
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I can get my friend's black dragun lcd go full auto when set on semi, you just gotta find the sweet spot and let it bounce on there, hold your finger still. All electronic guns have it, TRIGGER BOUNCE, but switch bounce or board bounce shouldn't be allowed. An advantage of having an electronic marker is getting a small pull when you might get some trigger bounce but cheating by using switch or board bounce is bad.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:06 AM #73
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It's funny how quickly Bobby put out a new program to stop this "mechanical bounce" when supposedly there was no problem......though bounce wasn't the question every one had, it was the ramping of the boards which was easy to spot by the refs......I don't think they were pulling Timmy after Timmy off the fields in Pamona because they felt like it or because Jim Drew said so.....he may build a great board that is actually legal.....but as much as I hate to let you guys down....he doesn't have the power to get markers pulled off the field. The PSP/NPPL does speak with him on the matters off the field because he knows what he is talking about. Stop whining about the matter and get back to playing. If you can't follow the rules then quit and go play rec ball.
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Old 03-29-2004, 10:30 AM #74
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Quote:
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It's funny how quickly Bobby put out a new program to stop this "mechanical bounce" when supposedly there was no problem......
Hey, how about you get your facts straight. The new software program was simply to allow people to run their guns with a higher 'debounce' value because some guns were still getting some bounce at 20. Now it is adjustable up to 50 to stop it. It was done because of how crazy they were testing guns, to make sure everyone was good.

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
though bounce wasn't the question every one had, it was the ramping of the boards which was easy to spot by the refs......
Rubbish. The guns do not ramp up the ROF, this has now been proven by the NPPL robot and Jim Drew's claims have been showed (once again) to be lies.

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
I don't think they were pulling Timmy after Timmy off the fields in Pamona because they felt like it or because Jim Drew said so.....he may build a great board that is actually legal.....but as much as I hate to let you guys down....he doesn't have the power to get markers pulled off the field.
He was using his "I own a 100 million dollar gun software company so I know what's illegal" line to get guns pulled. I was there. He was lieing and it's now been proven. Case closed.

He said he had tested the boards and the ramping would be shown with the robot. It wasn't. He said the guns did specific things at certain rates of fire. They don't. Just like with other claims and tests he was supposed to have done, he didn't.

Once again it's come back to be proven as lies.

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
The PSP/NPPL does speak with him on the matters off the field because he knows what he is talking about.
He knows a lot about electronics, which is why he is pissed someone is doing it better. He has a track record of lieing about and trying to put down competing products. Nothing new there. He should just get on with making his own stuff.

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Stop whining about the matter and get back to playing. If you can't follow the rules then quit and go play rec ball.
Agreed.
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Old 03-29-2004, 11:32 AM #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by manike
He was using his "I own a 100 million dollar gun software company so I know what's illegal" line to get guns pulled. I was there. He was lieing and it's now been proven. Case closed.

He said he had tested the boards and the ramping would be shown with the robot. It wasn't. He said the guns did specific things at certain rates of fire. They don't. Just like with other claims and tests he was supposed to have done, he didn't.

Once again it's come back to be proven as lies.
Actually the refs asked his opinion. He stated that. The refs easily found many Timmies bouncing like mad out there. Where exactly did you see Jim Drew telling everyone their business? Seems to me the guns were pulled because they were illegal, where's the lie in that?

It's still kinda funny that now that a robot came out for testing that only one of the major guys had to go running around to do a "software update" to make his boards legal again! Be it for bounce, ramping, or whatever....the boards pulled were illegal. You'd think that the debounce setting would be adjustable enough to start with to tune out bounce.

My Equalizer board seems to work just fine without the bounce or ramping and never needed any update. Crazy huh.
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Old 03-29-2004, 11:50 AM #76
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Damn you still can't get your facts straight.

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
Actually the refs asked his opinion. He stated that.
Actually according to Jim it was Graham Easton (works for Smart Parts) who asked his opinion, not a ref. I guess since the only way Jim and SP can get their guns to shoot so quick is by devious means that they though timmy's were the same. j/k

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
Where exactly did you see Jim Drew telling everyone their business?
I was stood behind and to the side of him one time when he was talking to Graham. I also sat down and talked to Bob Long, Dan, and Lane Wright about it all. I was told from several very reputable sources when Jim had said and I personally overheard him.

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
Seems to me the guns were pulled because they were illegal, where's the lie in that?
Guns that had trigger bounce were being pulled because they were illegal, no lie there, but guns being pulled because Jim Drew said they were ramping was just utter bs.

There were lots of guns being pulled for bounce. Funny enough I would say more illegal guns were found using WAS boards than Frenzy. So what's your point? Also matrixes and angels and e-cockers were getting pulled all over the place.

There was no proof then that the guns were ramping rof, and there is no proof now that the guns were ramping ROF. Jim has been caught out in his lies again.

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
It's still kinda funny that now that a robot came out for testing that only one of the major guys had to go running around to do a "software update" to make his boards legal again! Be it for bounce, ramping, or whatever....the boards pulled were illegal. You'd think that the debounce setting would be adjustable enough to start with to tune out bounce.
Sheese, more rubbish. The robot wasn't even at PSP LA. If it was none of the crap from JD would have been even listened to because it would have been proved a lie right there and then, just like it wasn't as soon as his lies were proven at HB.

The software update was done for people that still had bounce when the trigger was pulled very softly. Guns that didn't and haven't had the software update still pass the robot that Jim claims showed him they were ramping . (BTW Dave said that Jim hadn't even seen the robot at that point...)

Quote:
Originally posted by titan
My Equalizer board seems to work just fine without the bounce or ramping and never needed any update. Crazy huh.
Equalizers have never needed updates huh? So what versionof code is he running now? and why is the equalink on sale?
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Old 03-29-2004, 12:16 PM #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by titan
It's funny how quickly Bobby put out a new program to stop this "mechanical bounce" when supposedly there was no problem......though bounce wasn't the question every one had, it was the ramping of the boards which was easy to spot by the refs......I don't think they were pulling Timmy after Timmy off the fields in Pamona because they felt like it or because Jim Drew said so.....he may build a great board that is actually legal.....but as much as I hate to let you guys down....he doesn't have the power to get markers pulled off the field. The PSP/NPPL does speak with him on the matters off the field because he knows what he is talking about. Stop whining about the matter and get back to playing. If you can't follow the rules then quit and go play rec ball.
Yes, it was proven at HB btw of NPPL's MT04 robot that the Alias and Empires do not ramp in the rof and velocity. It was also proven that HALO's do ramp in feeding markers. This has been confirmed by Odyssey and the makers of the Empire B. I'm sure all, with the exception of the naive dullards out there, like the one in the quote above, that hoppers have major effect on the rof, not just of the overall speed but also the cadence of shots fired.
It is a fact that Jim Drew of WAS and Grahman of Smart Parts were both doing everything they could, to influence the reffing crews on all the Division X-Ball fields by out right lying and saying that all Alias, Empire Intimidators and DM4s had illegal ramping boards. Now, I'm sure everybody knows why SP has an agenda, considering their use of the patent to undermine any maker of an electronic marker, rumor is that they are not satisfied with just getting $75.00 per marker from Bob or Dye, but in fact want twice that much. Jim Drew on the other hand apparently chose to sever his ties with Bob, by trying to screw him over at Pomona with these actions. His pride really must be taken a beating, the non-use of his boards in the newer Intimidators and the recent introduction of Vaporwork's Entropy board, for which peeps are dumping Equalizers en masse. It might also be of interest that some of the peeps in help developing the Entropy did so out of shear dislike for Jim Drew.
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:27 AM #78
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All I know is that when I go to the PSP Chicago (Not playing in it), I will watch the ref's check the guns. I know a ref or two there I will see what happens.
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:37 AM #79
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Hey guys, would this gun be considered "illegal"?

http://www.automags.org/~Capo/A4.mpeg

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Old 04-02-2004, 11:33 PM #80
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Quote:
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My Equalizer board seems to work just fine without the bounce or ramping and never needed any update. Crazy huh.
Put it in debounce 1 and tell me you get the same results.
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Old 04-03-2004, 01:57 AM #81
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why would he put it in debounce 1, thats what debounce is there for. To stop your board from bouncing. Hence "debounce". Not add bouce
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Old 04-03-2004, 01:57 PM #82
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This whole thread and problem would not be a big deal if people would just stop cheating all together....BUT I never see that happening. So this is a big issue now.....stop whining about it. If your marker gets pulled then fix the thing so your not cheating. I don't care who says what gun is illegal.....if a ref checks it and it's bouncing then you don't need to be using it!
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