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Old 03-08-2004, 01:47 AM #1
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illegal guns at panoma?

Hey guys, go check out Anybody know anything else on whos guns were confiscated and whatnot.
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Old 03-08-2004, 10:20 AM #2
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I just read the aticle. Thats crazy!. Who has more info?

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Old 03-08-2004, 10:47 AM #3
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Almost all of team igntions guns were taken away because they were bouncing like mad. The had the debounce low and they were getting a couple balls per pull. Once again almost all of san diego legacy's DM4's were taken away because of bounce. This has been happening for a couple years, especially last year with timmys, but this year they are really cracking down.
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Old 03-08-2004, 12:25 PM #4
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any one got a link to the article???
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Old 03-08-2004, 12:49 PM #5
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um according to a few guys on Ignition told me that their guns were not taken. This was backed up by my boss who was at Pomona taking photos. They did not know about the Legacy or Ironman guns.
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Old 03-08-2004, 01:16 PM #6
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none of ignitions guns were taken- the guns were suspected to be illegal and rosie was called over by the refs but by the time he got there the game was over and any illegal guns had been changed. Ignition wasn't doing anything that most of the other teams weren't doing, they just made it more obvious to the refs...
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Old 03-08-2004, 01:43 PM #7
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From: AO

Originally posted by kilaueakid
I find this article by PBSTAR very funny and should set the record straight. I play for team Ignition and was at the PSP LA this weekend. We did not have any guns banned, nor did we recieve any penalty's for our guns being "cheater guns" all weekend. I am not sure where PB STAR is getting there info, but like real world media, is and can be wrong and sometimes misleading. Yes, we stuck it to Thunderstruck, Yes we sent them home, No our guns were not banned and we never penalized for any gun related issues.

Truth from the source.

Originally posted by manike
Yes I played with Ignition at World Cup, but at this event I was playing with Texas Storm. Who ever wrote that article didn't know the full story. There were no complaints about igntion during their game and no issues from the judges but afterwards the opposition were whining. Ignition never had any guns pulled as far as I was aware. Plenty of others did though...

The checking of guns at this event was a joke.

It came down to many issues and there was no set policy or testing method.

It's something we tried to address for other Millenniumn Series with the rule on testing guns, but here the judges tested however they felt like it.

They would routinely take a gun, hold it loosely and pull the trigger very slowly or with two fingers as they pulled it.

I was penalised for a bouncing gun the very first game I played and before it became obvious how stupid the refs were being (after that Dan and Rosie took better control of the situation) because the ref couldn't understand how I could shoot my gun so fast 'legally' . Any way he pulled it in a normal fashion (or as per the Millennium rules tests) it was fine, but when pulled really slowly after about 5-10 shots he managed to get a two shot bounce and gave me a 5 minute major penalty. He threatened me with a 10, if I argued. They were absolutely moronic about it. In my next game I asked the opposition player in the back corner to hang out and wait for me so I could pull my trigger really slowly and try and get two shots out at him...

Anyway of pulling the trigger as if playing the gun was fine. I picked up and tried lots of other guns at the events and I could get them all to double shoot. Egi and I estimated we could get 85-90% of the guns at the event to get bounce when tested the way the judges were testing the guns. And yet I never saw even one player shooting a gun in a fashion similar to the test method.

They decided a huge number of guns were illegal and started screwing anyone who's gun they could get two shots out of anyway they could. It was a joke.

At one point they shot a hopper and a POD through a kids gun, before declaring it to have bounce.

Then Jim Drew got involved and it seems that he is now rather upset at not making boards for all of the Intimidators so he came out with an insane accusation that all 'Black to silver' aliases were illegal. As if it would be guns of just one anodising colour. Has the guy lost his mind? Or is it the fact he doesn't make the boards for these guns? He was going around accusing all Alias's and DM4's of ramping and being illegal.

Before one game he asked a kid on the opposition if he could try his gun. The kid said 'sure' Jim tried his gun and then told the refs that all the teams guns were illegal as he 'owns a 100 Million dollar company' and knows when boards aren't legal, he didn't even test the other guns! Hahaha the king of making boards that made cheating easier pointing out illegal guns that don't use his boards... He had something like 7 guns pulled from that team. What a way to win a game huh? If you can't beat them, cheat them!

People from all over and with all kinds of guns were worrying themselves trying to make sure they could never under any test get a double shot, and to be honest it just wasn't possible. People were running with debounce up as high as they could go and yet with the way the judges were testing guns you could still make them 'illegal'.

The PSP (and NPPL) need to come up with a set test or better definitions. And definitely not just listen to jealous people who 'own 100 Million dollar companies) *think Austin powers movie*.

It was the biggest cluster *screw up* when it comes to 'bouncing guns' ever.

In effect the only people it caught were the innocent ones. The ones really trying to cheat would never have been caught by this idiocy.

I went around testing guns that had been deemed illegal and legal, and whereas there were genuinely some dodgy stuff going on, I'd say the majority of people penalised were not guilty of any intentional wrong doing.

There became issues with electronic guns the day they were invented.

Now it is definitely becoming a problem at all levels. But the current solutions are only catching the innocent.

Right now the only way to make sure your gun is legal for the stupid test being used in LA, IS TO CHEAT in the software.

Is that they way they want to force things to go?
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Old 03-08-2004, 02:06 PM #8
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"All black to grey empires and aliases are illegal"

What a riot...Jim Drew makes me laugh, what an #$% Clown

*Edit* "Butt clown" my bad...forgot we cant swear here

Last edited by NkdMangina : 03-08-2004 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 03-08-2004, 02:58 PM #9
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who the heck slaps and beats the crap out of their gun when they shoot it?.. they would just beat my DM4 down trying to get it to bounce before letting me on the field. I really want to know how on earth is that an idicator for a bouncing gun? It almost became an issue of assault when that dude would check your gun.
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Old 03-08-2004, 03:28 PM #10
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i agree with the post before, i play for naughty by nature and every game we went on the field the refs were rediculous checking the guns for bounce, they would slap the side of the trigger and it wouldnt bounce and then every once in a while they would hit the trigger and pull it twice so 2 balls would come out!!! It was by far the worst reffing i have ever seen in a national event. Not only would the idiot refs hit the trigger twice and say it bounced but the would empty a halo before my game.
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Old 03-08-2004, 03:53 PM #11
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i think the field reffs were good, especially the ones on the x-ball 10man field.......Its been the best reffing in a long time. It was just the chrono reff on the JT field . He could make any freaking gun bounce.

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Old 03-08-2004, 04:01 PM #12
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Hahaha. The thing is when my NXN alias bounced i didnt even know how to change it. And im like do you really think im gonna shoot my gun like that when i play? Seriously who smacks the side of their gun when their trying to snap shoot a guy out?
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Old 03-08-2004, 04:06 PM #13
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OK you all need to come down because alot of the crap here is exzactly that. jim drew did not claim that only one color gun was illegal nor did he ask to use someones gun then say it was illegal.

for the record all alias and empire timmys all ramp straight out of the box. as is the case with every dm4 out of the box. jim drew was approached by grahm from smart parts and then was asked his opinion on what guns he felt were cheating and how. jim simply told grahm his OPINION!
also jim did not have guns pulled from the teams at all it was all the refs decsion.
another thing jim doesnt even care about the fact he didnt make new boards for the new timmys.
after being screwed over by jeno jim has no care to work with him anymore.

everyone needs to get their facts stright.
and if anyone doubts that these guns ramp out of the box. well all i can say is sucks to be you cause when the psp really cracks down and checks these guns to determine bounce dwell ramping and everything else well that sucks for all you.
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Old 03-08-2004, 05:02 PM #14
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The refs checked one or two of Ignitons guns a few times each match, they never took a gun or gave penalties.

The refs on the field can check any gun any time if they would have needed to. Refs where taking guns and giving 5min penalties to other teams like crazy.
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Old 03-08-2004, 05:38 PM #15
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I would seriously like to hear a blanket statement on trigger bounce. My DM4 was checked for bounce the normal way, but then checked by walking the trigger. The ref percieved it as illegal when he did that, and pulled a 5 minute penalty. Whereas other fields would find single pull bounce, and did not say a word.
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Old 03-08-2004, 05:51 PM #16
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I think the way they enforced the rule was wrong. Ref's are always going to make mistakes, and unless they conclusively prove that the gun's board is set to bounce they shouldn't penalize. We need some computer automated thing to check or something..
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Old 03-08-2004, 06:13 PM #17
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the refs on the 10 man x field did great, the refs on the jt 10 man were just a joke...
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Old 03-08-2004, 06:38 PM #18
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I was getting my new Empire Timmy fined tuned from Bob Long himself and I asked him about the situation with D bounce. He told me exactly that the way the refs were checking for debounce was stupid. (Maybe in some other words) But he showed me the correct way to check for debounce, and I think he going to talk to someone about it.
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Old 03-08-2004, 06:40 PM #19
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OCK Derek, That is exactly what Bob Long was talking about. Sorry didnt read the whole thread befire replying.
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Old 03-08-2004, 06:54 PM #20
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I was part of the 5minute penalty frenzy on the divisional fields. Got ejected and my gun put in gun jail for the game. What sucks is my gun doesn't double shoot, the only bounce there is is the one from the guns recoil when pulling very slowly.

Oh well, if they don't want bounce I guess we'll all go back to shooting mechanical autocockers

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Old 03-08-2004, 06:57 PM #21
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great so if they were pulling timmys at psp,where national is a major sponsor, imagine whats going to happen with timmys at the nppl events........
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