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Old 03-04-2004, 08:48 PM #1
XxElite12
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Not a Monopoly...

Personally, im sick of people calling SP a monopoly. Electros are NOT water, you can survive without them, you dont need them. Even more than that, it is not like SP is buying the other companys out to make it so that they are the only paintball business around, they are just sueing over a copyright infringment which is 100% legal to do. so stop saying that smart parts is a monopoly. It will be settled in a court of law. So if SP did something that is unjust, sp will lose the case, but its right there, in black and white; smart parts patened their ideas and the other companies stole it.

Technically, you guys should be striking against AKA and the other companys which took smart parts ideas. Technically, you should be on the side of Smart Parts.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:50 PM #2
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ummm, aka and the other companies didn't take sp's ideas....
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:50 PM #3
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Re: Not a Monopoly...

Quote:
Originally posted by XxElite12
Personally, im sick of people calling SP a monopoly. Electros are NOT water, you can survive without them, you dont need them. Even more than that, it is not like SP is buying the other companys out to make it so that they are the only paintball business around, they are just sueing over a copyright infringment which is 100% legal to do. so stop saying that smart parts is a monopoly. It will be settled in a court of law. So if SP did something that is unjust, sp will lose the case, but its right there, in black and white; smart parts patened their ideas and the other companies stole it.

Technically, you guys should be striking against AKA and the other companys which took smart parts ideas. Technically, you should be on the side of Smart Parts.
Too bad SP hasnt actually went to court yet, everything that happens has been settlements not a court ruling. Also, SP is infringing on several of AKA's patents so they better watch out.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:58 PM #4
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then obviously the companys that settled, settled for a reason... and it isnt because they knew that they were going to win, ill tell you that right now
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:02 PM #5
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they don't have as much money as Smart Parts...of corse they won't win....it's called politics...the part with more money gains more influence, support, and guess what...money. The company with the green always wins.

The other companies know they can't go up against them, when in reality, the one who does will most likely beat them, because this patent is too broad and can get in the way of improving technology, which is not allowed. The patent alone is fine, it's when they broadened it that it became bull.

No one stole ideas from Smart Parts...because Smart Parts has NEVER CREATED ANYTHING PERIOD!
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:14 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by XxElite12
then obviously the companys that settled, settled for a reason... and it isnt because they knew that they were going to win, ill tell you that right now
They settled for a reason and nobody knows that reason because of a gag order. And like the other guy said, Smart Parts didnt invent anything.
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Old 03-05-2004, 10:50 AM #7
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wooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooo elite SP forever! 100% agree with you!
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Old 03-05-2004, 03:03 PM #8
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NPS has more of a monopoly in the paintball business than SP will ever have. It's just a lame excuse for the anti-SP guys.
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Old 03-05-2004, 04:32 PM #9
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but nps isn't putting it's competition out of business, so no they don't have a monopoly. learn what that means before you use it.

Monopoly
1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: “Monopoly frequently... arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals” (Milton Friedman).

NPS isn't putting other companies out so they are the exclusive company, smart parts is, end of story
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Old 03-05-2004, 04:45 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by WCWfrk
but nps isn't putting it's competition out of business, so no they don't have a monopoly. learn what that means before you use it.

Monopoly
1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: “Monopoly frequently... arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals” (Milton Friedman).

NPS isn't putting other companies out so they are the exclusive company, smart parts is, end of story
I already knew what it meant, wise guy. NPS produces and distributes a hell of a lot more electronic guns than SP does. NPS is a big part of SP's success because they distribute a lot of their products. This factually happens to be the reason why SP stopped going after NPS. You also left out a big part of the definition. Monopoly could be interpreted the way you posted, and/or this way:

Quote:
A company or group having exclusive control over a commercial activity.
By both meanings, NPS has more of a monopoly than SP. Are you done now?

Last edited by clintoris : 03-05-2004 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 03-05-2004, 04:49 PM #11
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Sure, SP does not have a monopoly, but it does want to. Not on the entire paintball scene, but just of the highly lucrative electro-pneumatic market. It is not about high volumes, it is about owning the sales of the high-end.
What SP did was to patent their design, and the expand the patent, while it was unknow to the entire industry, in a way that, instead of protecting it´s specific design, it is now able to cover ANY electronic marker design. Is it legal, maybe. Is it ethical, surelly not. Is it right? I am sure it is not right, it is a trick used to fool the US patent office and it´s rules, which are built to foster competition while protecting inventors.

If you want to argue that AKA stole something from SP, I may accept it, because the Viking uses the same operation logic as the Impulse, and I do believe that the Excalibur also uses the same logic as the Shocker. Sure, you cannot possibly compare the quality of the implementation or of the final product, the AKA guns never were competition for SP, because their products were more expensive and much superior, basically another entire market that would have never bought something from SP.

But can you please explain me why SP got after Dye, or why it has been sueing WDP? Do you know that the Matrix was developed without infringing on any SP product(the new shocker is actually a bad carbon copy of the matrix). Do you know that WDP had working prototypes of the Angel before SP acutally had their first patent application? Do you know that there have been discussions and designs for electronic cockers and electronic automags since 1996? And now AGD is being forced to quit producing the E-mag(please, explain why the E-mag was something stolen from SP) Powerlyte is possibly cancelling the Isis, because it is afraid of being sued by SP(and they developed it without copying anything from SP), the entire high-end market is threatened by SP, specially the small companies, that do not have resources to keep fighing in court every false allegation SP can create! Their patent should be dismissed. It is too broad(anyone can be sued), it hurts competition(makes all guns 60+ more expensive), it hurts the development of new products(inventors cannot own their design, because it will fall under the same patent), it creates barriers to new competitors to even enter the market(1M+ licensing deal) and it is being used as a weapon to drive competitors out of the market without benefiting users. Can you please enlight me how I am all wrong and that SP is being nice and honest?

Thanks,
Allan
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Old 03-05-2004, 06:05 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ninjanki

But can you please explain me why SP got after Dye, or why it has been sueing WDP? Do you know that the Matrix was developed without infringing on any SP product(the new shocker is actually a bad carbon copy of the matrix). Do you know that WDP had working prototypes of the Angel before SP acutally had their first patent application? Do you know that there have been discussions and designs for electronic cockers and electronic automags since 1996? And now AGD is being forced to quit producing the E-mag(please, explain why the E-mag was something stolen from SP) Powerlyte is possibly cancelling the Isis, because it is afraid of being sued by SP(and they developed it without copying anything from SP), the entire high-end market is threatened by SP, specially the small companies, that do not have resources to keep fighing in court every false allegation SP can create! Their patent should be dismissed. It is too broad(anyone can be sued), it hurts competition(makes all guns 60+ more expensive), it hurts the development of new products(inventors cannot own their design, because it will fall under the same patent), it creates barriers to new competitors to even enter the market(1M+ licensing deal) and it is being used as a weapon to drive competitors out of the market without benefiting users. Can you please enlight me how I am all wrong and that SP is being nice and honest?

Thanks,
Allan
thats business
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Old 03-05-2004, 06:17 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by WCWfrk
but nps isn't putting it's competition out of business
btw, you are getting away from what i said and are not understanding what a monopoly means. SP has to be THE REASON for putting these companys out of business, let me expalin.

if all of a sudden; arbys, wendys, and burger king just suddenly went out of business due to lack of profits because everyone is going to McDonald because of its cheaper prices, would you call McDonalds a monopoly? no, because they did not force those other companies out of business in order to control of the burger "industry".

now, if McDonalds decides to sue burger king and wendys because they stole their "supersize" idea, that would be fine rite? its just business. McD's came up with the idea first rite? well, what happened, if because of that law suit, burger king and wendys went out of business because it costed the companys too much, would you call McDonalds a monopoly for sueing? no, because they didnt force them out of business, they just sued them for stealing an idea. plus, they still have arbys open for business competition.

now, if McDonalds decides to buy out BK, Wendys, and arbys to eliminate competition, is that creating a monopoly? YES!!! they, McDonalds, would be 100% at fault for "getting rid" of the competition, leaving McDonalds to be the only company left in the fastfood market.

now do you guys understand how a monopoly works?
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Old 03-05-2004, 10:10 PM #14
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ummm, that's exactly what i was trying to say...only...without the food involvement. Yes i know what a monopoly is. NPS does not have a monopoly, and SP is trying to get one, plain and simple
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:08 PM #15
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sure, they wish they had no competition, who doesnt but being a monopoly is illegal, so why would they plan to do it? but SP is NOT BUYING OUT the other companys. sueing; yes. buying out; no.

like i said, sueing and getting rid of are two separate things
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:12 PM #16
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they are sueing them so they CAN get rid of them....legally. What you don't understand is how much smarter the Gardner's are than you....they know how the law works, and they know how to work the law...and they are doing it. They are doing things that are borderline legal, and getting away with it because they know how. Sooner or later they will slip though...why? because they have done it before, and they'll do it again
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:12 PM #17
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WCWfrk, reread your post. You had no ****ing clue what a monopoly was.
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:46 PM #18
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Today Martha Stewart went to Jail for "Just Business"

No so quick to say she was smart huh?

Somthing to think about.

Unethical Business practices are the reason why so many people get shafted by "big business"
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:49 PM #19
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just because your smart doesn't mean someone can't outsmart you...that's what happened with all of the big companies like enron, and that's why martha is going to jail...

and yes i did know what it was, i just worded it wrong
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:53 PM #20
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Id like to think that its just a matter of time before negative actions bring negative consequences.

Pissing off lots of people increases the likelyhood of such an event...

As far as smartness goes... its too soon to tell...

Pissing off the entire industry is not a good place to start.
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:56 PM #21
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no, it's not a good place...but you know whats sad? Every day at the field I still see tons of people using shockers and impulses, and when i tell them about the lawsuits...they have NO idea what i'm talking about. So few people actually know what is happening that is isn't effecting their sales enough for them to feel the pain...so people, please get to your fields and advertise your anti-sp ways. I have gotten about 10 people to stop buying/using sp so far
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