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Old 08-03-2014, 11:06 AM #1
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Cool Max BPS on Spire, Rotor, Other High End Loaders?

I was just curious what the max BPS was on a spire, rotor, or other high end loader?

And before some smart *** says "bro, they are all fast enough who cares" or "brah, as long as it shoots 12.5 BPS, it doesn't matter"....I'd like to point out two things:

1. That doesn't answer my question. I'm not asking for the relative merits of various ROF, I'm asking for a simple, factual, scientific question: what is the max BPS is on various high end loaders, assuming ideal marker conditions and ideal tweaking of the loader.

2. It does matter. And I'm not getting into that because; a. its gonna take too long for me to explain, and not worth the trouble since you probably wont change your mind, no matter how good my explanation is. b. it doesn't answer my question, which is the whole point of the thread
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:54 AM #2
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All these answers are referring to on the marker.

Rotor is about 23-24.

The Spire I don't remember exactly. If I remember correctly I think it was around 18. Not 100% sure though, don't quote me on that.

Pinokio Speed is around 18-20.

Machine Gear is around 17-18.

Empire Prophecy/Z2 is pretty fast. I don't remember the exact rate, but it is pretty quick.
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Old 08-03-2014, 01:51 PM #3
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thank you for your help...although these numbers seem really low! The old eggy's and halos go at these speeds. Didn't dye make a video bragging their rotor could do 40 bps (of course, wether or not they got creative with the video footage is an issue)?
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:51 PM #4
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My rotor will do 36bps on marker according to my board.

And yes, there are at least two videos of the rotor doing 40bps on marker.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:11 PM #5
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A marker can not shoot 40 bps, so bring that video or I call bullsh*t.

Yes, it can do around 40 bps into a pod, but no marker will shoot 40 bps
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:06 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvlacrosse14 View Post
A marker can not shoot 40 bps, so bring that video or I call bullsh*t.

Yes, it can do around 40 bps into a pod, but no marker will shoot 40 bps


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Old 08-03-2014, 05:45 PM #7
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So you're telling me that we can start shooting paint lasers? Sign me up >.<
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:37 PM #8
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If I remember correctly, Dye claims that the rotor will output 50+ per second.

I couldn't find a max bps for the spire.

Z2 (Prophecy) can do 20-ish per second.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:34 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvlacrosse14 View Post
A marker can not shoot 40 bps, so bring that video or I call bullsh*t.

Yes, it can do around 40 bps into a pod, but no marker will shoot 40 bps


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzb5GMSxuxo
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:07 AM #10
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I've hit 23pbs on my Spire but the batteries were dying so it could probably go faster
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:22 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theVicious1 View Post


No one besides Dye has been able to recreate that. All uncapped videos you see with the Rotor are around 23-24 bps.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:48 PM #12
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No one besides Dye has been able to recreate that. All uncapped videos you see with the Rotor are around 23-24 bps.


Why do you think that is? Serious question
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:09 PM #13
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All this **** about hoppers not feeding fast enough, but this is 2014 and the biggest issue I see with ROF caps is bolt cycle speed. With an Ego11 with the SFRs adjusted to fully open we had a Z2 we could get up to 27 no problem, but with a DM7 with a slightly high LPR we could only get up to 23. Watching the bolt cycle on 35bps full auto with eyes off it didn't look like it made it back all the way before the gun tried to cycle it forward again.

If you balance between the LPR and dwell well enough you could get Dye's results, but you would need a prime functioning Rotor and a prime functioning and ridiculously tuned DM (including o-ring fitment) to get there. If you had the time, patience, and knowledge to do it, it should be no issue.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:42 AM #14
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crank the tension up and find hard shell paint.
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:45 PM #15
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What aresfiend said.

Max BPS is affected by the marker. Simon has videos and a thread on his forum talking about it.

The time the bolt takes to come back is time that the loader has to sit idle. Some markers have bolts that sit in the forward position longer than others, so it varies between guns.

That said, if you shot the same gun uncapped with each loader, you should be able to see the relative differences in speed between them.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:49 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBBlastah View Post
thank you for your help...although these numbers seem really low! The old eggy's and halos go at these speeds. Didn't dye make a video bragging their rotor could do 40 bps (of course, wether or not they got creative with the video footage is an issue)?
You also have to keep in mind that nobody on the tournament scene cares about max feed rate, or at least not much. The difference between a loader capable of 23 bps and 28bps is meaningless to most people playing a capped ramping game, where the cap is far below the max rate of the hopper. So manufacturers adjust to what people care about, which today is quick disassembly, the ability to hold just over a pod, and the ability to shoot the extremely fragile tournament paint. The R&D is better spent finding the most reliable way to softly feed paint at least at a consistent 12.5 on marker bps over how fast can it go.

The old hoppers popcorned paint something nasty and were much harsher on fragile paint. Today's loaders do a much better job meeting the rules of most major fields/events while allowing the user to shoot a wider variety of paint. I still enjoy waisting paint in uncapped ramp and a faster loader (that doesn't break paint) is always better than a slower loader, but anymore it's not a focus for good reason. When you watch a Z2/Rotor/Spire take a full hopper and run it down to one to two balls without missing a beat on 12.5 ramping, there comes a point where manufacturers call things good enough and focus on other concerns.

As for your question of how fast they are, I've personally seen my Z2 feed 23-25 shots over a full second and peaked at 27-29 shot to shot on a couple different markers. Funny thing about that DM and rotor video is I struggle to get any DM/PM to shoot much over 20bps, regardless of setup. I've heard rumors they used a modified NT system in that gun, but even then, I've yet to see a Dye product that could do what that one video showed. It's either a one-off marker totally different than we see made today or it was a faked. I suppose they could have put in a modified automag X-valve and a much higher than standard 800psi input to get it to go reactive, though that would be a lot of work and even they didn't go beyond mid 30's with a qloader. I've always been very interested in what they "modified" to get those results.
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Old 09-13-2014, 12:12 AM #17
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:12 AM #18
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[quote= I've heard rumors they used a modified NT system in that gun, but even then, I've yet to see a Dye product that could do what that one video showed. It's either a one-off marker totally different than we see made today or it was a faked. I suppose they could have put in a modified automag X-valve and a much higher than standard 800psi input to get it to go reactive, though that would be a lot of work and even they didn't go beyond mid 30's with a qloader. I've always been very interested in what they "modified" to get those results.[/QUOTE]

yea i wish some one at dye would enlighten us all on wat they modified
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Old 09-15-2014, 05:28 PM #19
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It said 1000 fps ball speed. I assume pressures are cranked, lpr and hpr in order to evacuate both the ball and the bolt from the firing position asap in order to start the next ball dropping as early as possible.
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:00 AM #20
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Quote:
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It said 1000 fps ball speed. I assume pressures are cranked, lpr and hpr in order to evacuate both the ball and the bolt from the firing position asap in order to start the next ball dropping as early as possible.
No... it said 1000 fps camera frames... that's how you can count the balls in slow motion.
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:26 PM #21
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1000 fps would be insane, haha.
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