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Old 07-21-2014, 07:48 AM #1
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Reffing suggestion

I have held quite a few tournaments at my field, so I do understand how difficult it can be to ref tournaments and this is about constructive criticism to make it better for ALL teams competing.

Here are two issues I saw going on all day yesterday on field 4.

1) Clean the bunkers. Not once did the refs scrape off the bunkers all day. And the only reason that became an issue was because they called out at least 5 players for bunker rub on various teams. This was one instance where the refs weren't playing favorites on snake side, since I saw them call bunker rub on 5 different teams. To make matters worse, they also called players clean due to bunker rub when they were clearly hit. Make sure the refs clean the bunkers and know the difference between rub and a shot.

2) Put a second head ref outside the net on snake side to make sure the refs inside the net are doing their job. One of the refs in snake was doing a pretty good job overall, except when he wiped a very clear hit on a player and called him clean. The other was the worst ref I have ever seen. He wouldn't get in and check players when he should. He was lazy and just stood back against the net, more concerned about himself getting shot. He wouldn't hardly point out players when they were hit. He also called out a player who got a bounce off his headband. No paint on the player at all. A second head ref could have pulled that ref or out him in a less critical position. It would also give another set of eyes for when calls are challenged. There were only a few really blatantly bad calls yesterday. Most issues were from calling bunker rub and one ref being lazy.

These were the two biggest issues that don't get into some refs playing favorites and will help everyone on the field. It's not asking for much, and I hope it gets taken into consideration going forward. Teams pay a lot of money just in entries, give them a better experience. D5 alone brought in $8,000. They used two fields all day. Providing two extra snake side refs outside the field isn't going to break the bank. And making the refs do their job of scraping off the bunkers doesn't cost any extra. Plenty of players and teams are getting fed up with entry prices going up and getting a worse experience. Give them at least a small portion of what they are paying for. Losing one more team is about what two more head refs would cost. Which would you prefer?
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:45 AM #2
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I have to agree. I played on field 4 and not once did the bunkers get wiped down. a lot of players getting called out on rub and on bounces or one ref calling a player out making the signal but another ref calling him clean. Need to get the refs on the same page. It's very frustrating in a race to 2 to lose players on rub or bounces. There is no perfect fix to this but you can improve on it.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:04 AM #3
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I have to agree. I played on field 4 and not once did the bunkers get wiped down. a lot of players getting called out on rub and on bounces or one ref calling a player out making the signal but another ref calling him clean. Need to get the refs on the same page. It's very frustrating in a race to 2 to lose players on rub or bounces. There is no perfect fix to this but you can improve on it.

That's a good point. In a race to 2, teams can't afford bad calls like that. It sucks in any race to format, but race to 2 really points out how hard it is for teams when bad calls happen. Hopefully we'll see some improvements.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:58 AM #4
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We had a similarly rough experience with the refs in D6. Maybe they just didn't care because it's "only D6", but there were many times when players would be screaming for a paint check and the ref just looked at them like they had two heads. One particularly annoying incident involved a player hanging the flag with a very obvious hit on the side of his loader. Even people outside the net, behind the deadbox, were calling it out, but the ref didn't seem to care.

I had a great time playing yesterday, but there were definitely *a lot* of missed/bad calls, and just general laziness by the refs on D6. There was only one ref, he was watching snake side, that was very proactive. He ran clear across the field to pull a player who had a hit on his barrel that the ref closest to him didn't see.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:05 PM #5
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Love the idea of the 2nd head ref on the snake side outside. Things got crazy when a big move or something happened. The Refs did do the best they could from what I saw. Not trying to be a A**hole but if I was playing on that field after watching a few games. I would not even pay attention to the refs making calls simply because it seemed like they were all not throwing flags for playing on. No disrespect but if I know a ref is not throwing a flag for me not getting out right away I may be more inclined to keep shooting my gun or continue my run. Instead if the ref saw the player still going after they signaled them out they were just running in and pulling the user out by the arm with no flag. I only saw one major thrown where a player clearly turned and shot after being hit and called out. I know this is not Pro level but a penalty could have changed quite a few games where this sort of situation happened. Again not pointing fingers just what I caught myself saying to myself on the sidelines. No favoritism just maybe hesitation on the refs part?
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:24 PM #6
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Love the idea of the 2nd head ref on the snake side outside. Things got crazy when a big move or something happened. The Refs did do the best they could from what I saw. Not trying to be a A**hole but if I was playing on that field after watching a few games. I would not even pay attention to the refs making calls simply because it seemed like they were all not throwing flags for playing on. No disrespect but if I know a ref is not throwing a flag for me not getting out right away I may be more inclined to keep shooting my gun or continue my run. Instead if the ref saw the player still going after they signaled them out they were just running in and pulling the user out by the arm with no flag. I only saw one major thrown where a player clearly turned and shot after being hit and called out. I know this is not Pro level but a penalty could have changed quite a few games where this sort of situation happened. Again not pointing fingers just what I caught myself saying to myself on the sidelines. No favoritism just maybe hesitation on the refs part?

That's a good point about not throwing penalties. Thank you guys for keeping it about overall issues and not individual team issues. I think that gives us the best chance to show a good case to make these improvements.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:23 PM #7
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Or, they could actually supply refs who have certified PSP training instead of a bunch of randoms. The amount of rub calls that were made was just absurd. Major after major called on bunker rub all day. It was a joke.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:37 PM #8
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The big fat guy on field 4 was by far one of the laziest and worst refs in the history of cfp and when he missed call after call he then argued with people.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:41 PM #9
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Originally Posted by Skippy_4000 View Post
Or, they could actually supply refs who have certified PSP training instead of a bunch of randoms. The amount of rub calls that were made was just absurd. Major after major called on bunker rub all day. It was a joke.

At least they weren't calling majors for it on field 4, lol. That was one saving grace of them....
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:42 PM #10
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The big fat guy on field 4 was by far one of the laziest and worst refs in the history of cfp and when he missed call after call he then argued with people.

The smaller kid on the right snake side was worse, lol. But I know the one you are talking about too.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:56 PM #11
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At least they weren't calling majors for it on field 4, lol. That was one saving grace of them....
Joke's on you, they called about 8 majors on field 4 that I saw, and I know this because ONE OF THEM WAS ON ME! The snake ref called a major and then the ref in the back flat out told me it was just rub!!!
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:06 PM #12
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Honestly, we are DONE at CFP, because of what was just mentioned on the first post My team will NEVER play at CFP again and I will take our money and go to a much better run Tournament Series. I have brought 2 teams to the last 4 events that your refs have lost for you. I had my snake player get into snake and get called 5 times on bunker rub 3 with resulted in pentalties. Two were when we played a certain token team at CFP. The token teams Coach directed the ref to my player. And yes they didn't throw the flag on a lot of stuff that should have been called, but they sure threw the flag on us for bunker rub on a clean slide into snake 2 times when we played the token team. Favoritism?Total BS!
Oh yeah, the bounce off the head, that was one of our players also.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:58 PM #13
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Joke's on you, they called about 8 majors on field 4 that I saw, and I know this because ONE OF THEM WAS ON ME! The snake ref called a major and then the ref in the back flat out told me it was just rub!!!

I saw at least half the matches and didn't see 8 majors. None of the bunker rub pulls were given majors that I saw. But I did see several people playing on after getting clearly shot and not get a major.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:01 PM #14
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Honestly, we are DONE at CFP, because of what was just mentioned on the first post My team will NEVER play at CFP again and I will take our money and go to a much better run Tournament Series. I have brought 2 teams to the last 4 events that your refs have lost for you. I had my snake player get into snake and get called 5 times on bunker rub 3 with resulted in pentalties. Two were when we played a certain token team at CFP. The token teams Coach directed the ref to my player. And yes they didn't throw the flag on a lot of stuff that should have been called, but they sure threw the flag on us for bunker rub on a clean slide into snake 2 times when we played the token team. Favoritism?Total BS! Oh yeah, the bounce off the head, that was one of our players also.

Another player got pulled for a head bounce? I saw one of our guys have that happen to them. That would make two people at least. I'm sure there's more. A couple events ago the head ref called one of my guys out for a small yellow logo on his jersey, after the ref on the field checked him and called him clean. First point of the day and he had zero paint anywhere on him.

I'm sure you're not the only ones leaving. I wish I had more room at my field to and two more airball fields. I'd start my own series if I did.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:47 PM #15
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Also, I question why there we no radar/speed guns on the field checking this time. I know there were several guns shooting hot and fast. One of the players on my D6 squad had a pod that shattered from a paintball hit. I could go on and on. I just hope teams realize what is going on and stop playing this event. It stinks that this is the only field in Florida that has APPA tournaments, but we are moving on to MiLP. We did Panama City and the MiLP guys ran a very good Tournament. I see that one getting really big!
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:12 PM #16
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Also, I question why there we no radar/speed guns on the field checking this time. I know there were several guns shooting hot and fast. One of the players on my D6 squad had a pod that shattered from a paintball hit. I could go on and on. I just hope teams realize what is going on and stop playing this event. It stinks that this is the only field in Florida that has APPA tournaments, but we are moving on to MiLP. We did Panama City and the MiLP guys ran a very good Tournament. I see that one getting really big!

There was a chrono station on field 4, but no enforcement. I personally check everyone at my tournaments with my Clock. It's a safety hazard for players and my refs who often times get shot a dozen or more times checking one player.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:24 PM #17
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All I can say is I agree with everyone on this thread. Especially with the D6 refs. I can honestly say I know why so many teams have quit playing Cfp events and as for me I'm not sure if I will return. It's just hard to find 3 man tournaments. I hope xplex has another one soon it's a great time for 1/4 the price. I hope these suggestions can make it to the proper personnel at Cfp in hopes of having a better experience at the last event if I plan on returning.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:04 PM #18
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This is the first CFP event we've missed in years, but after watching the event as a spectator I am glad we didn't play.

Reffing was horrendous.

I know it's hard to ref, I've helped ref events and yes it does suck at times. But your out there getting paid (might not be a bunch but you agreed to do it for that price) but you need to get after it and earn it. I wouldn't hire anyone who didn't try to do their best especially at an event like this. This isn't the west coast open. (Doggy)

But the number of blown calls was bad. And has gotten worse as the season has progressed it has seemed. I know stuff gets missed, even at pro level, it happens. But not to this extent. This was just carelessness it looked like to me.

And I wish there was a way to contest some penalties (although in paintball everyone believes that they are innocent lol). Because, I saw a team get a minor and get 3 pulled. The reason this stands out and ticks me off so much is because this has happened to us EVERY event multiple times. When a ref throws a minor and pulls the guilty player and the other refs try to help and pull the other and end up pulling to many. So far through the series we have had 4 people pulled on one minor 3 times. And get 3 pulled on minors on a regular basis. This needs to get fixed.

The ONLY time we have had phenomenal reffing was event 2. And SR. Was on the field reffing. To me he was the hardest working guy on our field and it showed. (Go figure we get awesome reffing but then we play like doodoo butter...)

But since CFPS is a PSP affiliate league I believe that all their reffs need to be PSP certified. I know it won't stop all missed or bad calls because that stuff just happens, but it will help the quality of the reffing to an extent. The rest is up to how hard the reffs want to push to have a well called event.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:37 AM #19
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Ok here is what I have to contribute. I was on field 2 yesterday and honestly I really don't have many complaints this event. The snake side refs on both sides of the field I thought where pretty good. One of the d side refs made a couple bad bad calls that I have video of. One was clear bunker rub and another my player was loading a pod flipped it and got called for a hit to the pod while he was flipping it. I wouldn't complain about this if I didn't have perfect footage of the 10 or so balls that didn't make it into the hopper sparkle in the sunlight. My player picked up the pod immediately confused himself. I guess this sparkle somehow came off as a hit? My player had no marks and the said pod had no marks.

There was a couple of times when players traded and one of the players continued and nothing happened (literally ran about half of the field). Not to much playing on from what I saw on field 2.

We had a gun blow an oring with about 15 sec on the starting clock we immediately started asking for a timeout loud enough for the head ref to here us, but he nor any of the refs on the field reacted at all. He told me he didn't see us act like we still needed the timeout so he disregarded. Um we stayed at the starting box because nobody gave us a yes and my luck I would have gotten pulled for a false start if I started walking off the field.

On a positive like I said reffing on field 2 was ok it wasn't as bad as past events. We had a guy break 3 guns throughout the day and exhausted our backups. The score keeper actually let my guy use his vanquish for a match. Mad props to whoever that was thank you.

As mentioned by someone earlier. Some of these silly missed/blown calls really effect matches especially in race to 2. Every point counts and when the refs aren't on their game it can and will affect the outcome of the tournament. We pay allot of money to play these events that are getting worse and worse when it comes to reffing. I could blame us not advancing in every CFP event this season on a few very bad ref calls. That's not how I am and I found things that our team could have done better to blame not the refs. However if we would have gotten the correct call on the field on more than one occasion it sure would have helped.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:57 AM #20
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All I can say is I agree with everyone on this thread. Especially with the D6 refs. I can honestly say I know why so many teams have quit playing Cfp events and as for me I'm not sure if I will return. It's just hard to find 3 man tournaments. I hope xplex has another one soon it's a great time for 1/4 the price. I hope these suggestions can make it to the proper personnel at Cfp in hopes of having a better experience at the last event if I plan on returning.

I've been planning a 3-man streetball series, but wanted to wait for it to cool down a bit before launching it. Random teams and 50% of entry goes to cash prizes. I'll post up more info when it's finalized.

For those that don't know, I am an owner at X-Plex. We are no CFP. Only one airball field. But I'm passionate about the sport, engage all players and play styles, and am active on and off the field. Many Sundays you'll see me reffing airball practice.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:03 AM #21
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Originally Posted by Da1stMONSTERSOBE View Post
This is the first CFP event we've missed in years, but after watching the event as a spectator I am glad we didn't play. Reffing was horrendous. I know it's hard to ref, I've helped ref events and yes it does suck at times. But your out there getting paid (might not be a bunch but you agreed to do it for that price) but you need to get after it and earn it. I wouldn't hire anyone who didn't try to do their best especially at an event like this. This isn't the west coast open. (Doggy) But the number of blown calls was bad. And has gotten worse as the season has progressed it has seemed. I know stuff gets missed, even at pro level, it happens. But not to this extent. This was just carelessness it looked like to me. And I wish there was a way to contest some penalties (although in paintball everyone believes that they are innocent lol). Because, I saw a team get a minor and get 3 pulled. The reason this stands out and ticks me off so much is because this has happened to us EVERY event multiple times. When a ref throws a minor and pulls the guilty player and the other refs try to help and pull the other and end up pulling to many. So far through the series we have had 4 people pulled on one minor 3 times. And get 3 pulled on minors on a regular basis. This needs to get fixed. The ONLY time we have had phenomenal reffing was event 2. And SR. Was on the field reffing. To me he was the hardest working guy on our field and it showed. (Go figure we get awesome reffing but then we play like doodoo butter...) But since CFPS is a PSP affiliate league I believe that all their reffs need to be PSP certified. I know it won't stop all missed or bad calls because that stuff just happens, but it will help the quality of the reffing to an extent. The rest is up to how hard the reffs want to push to have a well called event.

Every game I've seen Senior ref has been great. It's the simple concept of employees doing a better job when the boss is around. I think having even a ref manager snake side that only makes sure the refs are doing their jobs would make a big improvement.
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