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Old 12-18-2001, 02:54 PM #43
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Good lord my favorite field will be closed! Noooooooo this musn't happen!
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:04 PM #44
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Yes Milhouse, some of us do live/go to school here in Wisconsin.:

But I do agree with Childe, even if you don't care about the whole thing, just let your government know you support the sport of paintball. I do not play "renegade" so I don't really care about playing on government lands either. But I do care about the government's attitude towards paintball, so I am doing my part and promoting the sport to them in a positive and educational light! And I think you should do the same.
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:09 PM #45
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The problem with showing support for this is that it looks like you want the right to tear up gov forests and parks and not that you are just supporting paintball.
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:13 PM #46
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Banning on just public land might not sound like a big deal but you have to realize that's probably not the whole reason for the ban, for some sick reason some people don't like paintball. If they could ban it in one area of a state, public land, it would be easier to work up to the point that there would be no outdoor fields. Wouldn't that be fun indoor all the time.

Many of these people who are pushing for this ban don't want the facts on paintball. Most of these people probably hate guns all together and paintballs just one more front to attack. If you want to destroy something legally you need to work the system for your advantage.

Outlawing guns started by attacking one type of gun. The handgun. Because of many laws that have passed it is much harder to get a hand gun. The snake hasn't finished firearms of yet but it has started with the eminent ban on hand guns. After handguns are banned it would be no problem to start passing more and more restriction on guns until nobody had one. All for the sake of saying guns are way to dangerous for all people in the USA.

While paintball of course is not that extreme. The easiest way to start destroying it is to begin with one ban and then move onto the next.

As for all you people that sit calmly by and let life run its course rationalizing everything the government does I suggest you pick up Animal Farm of 1984. It might seem far fetched but it does happen. Just ask a Russian.
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:15 PM #47
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Banning on just public land might not sound like a big deal but you have to realize that's probably not the whole reason for the ban, for some sick reason some people don't like paintball. If they could ban it in one area of a state, public land, it would be easier to work up to the point that there would be no outdoor fields. Wouldn't that be fun indoor all the time.

Many of these people who are pushing for this ban don't want the facts on paintball. Most of these people probably hate guns all together and paintballs just one more front to attack. If you want to destroy something legally you need to work the system for your advantage.

Outlawing guns started by attacking one type of gun. The handgun. Because of many laws that have passed it is much harder to get a hand gun. The government hasn't finished off firearms yet but it has started with the proposed ban on hand guns. After handguns are banned it would be no problem to start passing more and more restriction on guns until nobody had one. All for the sake of saying guns are way to dangerous for all people in the USA.

While paintball of course is not that extreme. The easiest way to start destroying it is to begin with one ban and then move onto the next.

As for all you people that sit calmly by and let life run its course rationalizing everything the government does I suggest you pick up Animal Farm or 1984. It might seem far fetched but it does happen. Just ask a communist.
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:16 PM #48
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Banning on just public land might not sound like a big deal but you have to realize that's probably not the whole reason for the ban, for some sick reason some people don't like paintball. If they could ban it in one area of a state, public land, it would be easier to work up to the point that there would be no outdoor fields. Wouldn't that be fun indoor all the time.

Many of these people who are pushing for this ban don't want the facts on paintball. Most of these people probably hate guns all together and paintballs just one more front to attack. If you want to destroy something legally you need to work the system for your advantage.

Outlawing guns started by attacking one type of gun. The handgun. Because of many laws that have passed it is much harder to get a hand gun. The government hasn't finished off firearms yet but it has started with the proposed ban on hand guns. After handguns are banned it would be no problem to start passing more and more restriction on guns until nobody had one. All for the sake of saying guns are way to dangerous for all people in the USA.

While paintball of course is not that extreme. The easiest way to start destroying it is to begin with one ban and then move onto the next.

As for all you people that sit calmly by and let life run its course rationalizing everything the government does I suggest you pick up Animal Farm of 1984. It might seem far fetched but it does happen. Just ask a Russian.
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:29 PM #49
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bull****

THIS IS F*CKIN BULLSH*T I CANT BELIEVE THIS HAPPEND AND U KNO ONCE 1 STAE DOES IT ITS GOIN 2 CONTINUE WHATS THE BEST THING I CAN DO 2 HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:29 PM #50
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i thought i would start off saying that i dont live near wisconsin and that people shouldnt just start sending email or phone calls to people thinking they are banning paintball and saying that they shouldnt u should send them emails and phone calls first asking what they bill does and be polite about it dont sound rude or anything just ask them exactly what it does and they will probably be happy to explain it to u and ask any other questions about the bill
i read another post about the official the guy talked to said they already had the public meetings could u call the same guy back and ask him how they posted the information and ask him politely if they would hold another meeting and ask them to make it a very public posting about the meeting
again these are just suggestions they mgiht not work or they might
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:41 PM #51
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Cool G - I was just kidding. It just seems like that everybody that is fired up about this (myself included) isn't from Wisconsin.

I feel the reason for the proposed ban on playing on public land is an environmental one. Go back to my earlier post on what paintball does to the land and I think you see my point. I would prefer not to see public lands "tagged" by people out playing paintball. Paintball harms the environment, at least temporarily, and I wouldn't want to see public lands like state parks and campground ruined by one group so that no one else would want to use them. That may not be the reason for this particular bill, but that would make some sense to me.

Smitty2 and CoolG - I couldn't agree with you more about the lack of accurate information on paintball. I do my part by telling anybody who will listen that I play paintball. I do my part by going to my local fields to play, playing by the rules, and playing safely. I do my part by encouraging newbies to come play, and not lighting them up for fun. I do my part leading by example. I am not a "sheep". Life does not pass me by. I am constantly challenging the status quo. I question everything, and rarely take anything at face value. That is why I am saying this is a non-issue. If I had just read the headline, I would have already fired off 30 e-mails to the proper people. But I bothered to read on, look a little deeper at the issue, and formed an opinion. It may not be the right one, but its the one I believe.

Not everyone is out to get us.

Now, about gun control. I think that's an entirely different thread.

Sprayboy - its called punctuation. Look into it.
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:55 PM #52
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WISCONSIN WILL NOT BAN PAINTBALL! RELAX!

I had a nice half-hour conversation with the Natural Resource Committee Chairman's office this morning. The PPMA release is highly inaccurate. There is *NO PROPOSED LAW* regarding paintball on state land. Repeat: THERE IS NO LAW OR BILL BEING CONSIDERRED. Furthermore, even if nothing happens in the next two days, its not that big of a deal.

Basically, what happened is this:

Earlier this year one of the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources technical advisory committees noted that it would be a good idea to take action to prevent outlaw paintball play on state lands. They included a rule in a set of proposed DNR administrative statutes to prohibit the possession of paintball equipment on DNR administerred land. There was a committee hearing at the department level where the paintball rule went pretty much unnoticed - no one at the DNR thought it was particularly significant.

The Wisconsin Natural Resources Committee has 30 days from when the DNR submits proposed new statutes with which to hold hearings and amend the rules if it wants to. The NRC did hold such a hearing on December 5th. They changed the rule to only prohibit the use of paintball equipment as opposed to just possessing it, one of the representatives on the committee pointing out that there are plenty of legitimate reasons for people to carry paintball equipment on/through DNR run land. The legislators are on OUR side on this one. Beyond that, no one wanted people playing outlaw paintball on DNR land and there didn't seem to be any impact otherwise, so it pretty much went on unnoticed.

Sometime about a week ago it seems the PPMA caught wind of this and asked for another hearing. The NRC Chairman office declined, and when I asked for the same thing on behalf of the NCPA when I called this morning (still believing the PPMA release that said there was some impending law - I should have been smarter than that since committees don't pass laws), they again declined, citing that it was near Christmas and they doubted they could get enough people for a quarum to even conduct buisiness (i.e., they had this hearing on the 5th so they wouldn't have to have it now.)

Now, even if this gets out of the committee in its current form, it is *NOT* the end of the world. It's just a DNR administrative rule, it isn't anything mandated by the legislature. The DNR can overturn it themselves, or the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules can overturn it upon review as well. Those are the two places the PPMA and others should be concentrating their efforts. I know that's where the NCPA will be putting ours, beause while this rule really stands little chance of impacting most WI paintball players, it could have some consequences in regards to the abilities of college paintball clubs at state-run schools to conduct their activities.

So essentially, this is something that has gotten blown *WAY* out of proportion, and I think is making paintball look a little silly to a certain group of WI state representatives.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that if anyone tells you there is a law pending in WI to permanently ban paintball from anything, they are entirely incorrect.

- Chris
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:00 PM #53
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man milhouse that's two of my qoutes you used. i must be saying the right things.

good thing we are on the same side

here's something i think everyone should check out:

http://folio.legis.state.wi.us/cgi-b...=ch.%20NR%2045

go to sections .04
it is the general rules for state land.
give it a read and maybe this will all be put into perspective.

notice that loud noise, littering, alcohol, fireworks are all banned.

i guess because these are banned that means the police, sanitation dept, AB, and the country of China will eventually go out of business when the entire state bans their products

DAMN YOU WISCONSIN DEPT OF NATURAL RESOURCES!!!!
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:13 PM #54
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I live in Wi and something has to be done. This sucks
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:19 PM #55
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I live in Wisconsin please email the reps.
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:22 PM #56
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Sorry MRP for not giving you the credit you deserve. You da' man!

Raehl - I knew there had to be some level headed Cheese Heads around here somewhere. Yours is the first valid point I read for opposing this proposed rule. I hadn't considered the impact on state college teams. We didn't have a paintball team at my school (at least not one I could afford to be on!).
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:23 PM #57
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damnit, i finally find a sport all of my friends can play and enjoy and they slap this in our face. im from wisconsin and love paintball and do not want it to slowly disapear. ive spent many paychecks on this and do not want to lose it i hope this doesnt go through
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:25 PM #58
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Dear Sir,

My name is Travis Decker. Thank you for taking the time to read this email. It is comforting to know that you are not only fighting for my rights but that you actually care what I think and that you would take a moment to read my story.
I got off on the wrong path in High School. I was hanging out with the wrong people and I started taking a lot of drugs. I quit High School and shortly thereafter had a little girl. I had to do something to support my drug habit so I went to work at a local restaurant.
The guys at work talked me in to going to a local field and playing paintball with them. It sounded like fun so I went. At the end of the day I was hooked. The adrenalin rush from playing paintball was stronger then any high I had ever had.
I knew from that first day that I wanted to play professionally. I played every weekend and it got expensive and soon it came down to choosing between paintball or a life on drugs. I chose paintball.
I moved to Christiansburg, VA and took a job for a Fire Safety Company installing fire extinguishers. The company I worked for also had a Paintball Shop. When one of the owners went out of town I was asked to help out for the week. After the week was over I stayed in the paintball shop. I was asked to run the shop and of course I said yes. I worked there for about a year until I got an interview at National Paintball Supply.
I am now a wholesale sales representative for National, one of the largest Paintball distributors in the world. I am doing very well and still working hard on playing Pro. If I had made the choice to stay on drugs, I would not be here today. The point here is:
I am that one kid that was saved by paintball. It is more than just a sport, it is a way of life. A safe way of life that promotes team work, skill-building and physical fitness.
Please remember this when you vote on your bill.

Thank you,
Travis Decker
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http://www.npsdealers.com
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:31 PM #59
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i have sent emails to the reps and chairpersons and thought that i would post it here just so you people could read, if you couldnt think of what to say or anything. hope it helps. Please show your support!!dont let this happen to WI, cuz if it is passed other states may follow suit, and then the paintball community will be in a world of hurt.

Dear Committee of Natural Resources chairpersons and Representatives,
I am a resdient of Wisconsin and have been all of my live. It was recently brought to my attention that there is a proposed ban(NR 45.04(3)(q) Paint balls. No person may use paint balls, paint ball guns or any other type of paint ball equipment on department lands)
to be decided on friday of this week. I ask that you please allow a hearing so that the members of the paintball community have a chance to defend themselves. If not a hearing, then atleast confere with major paintball organizations such as the Paintball Products Manufacturers Association. Im sure you have recieved a flood of pleas and requests, please consider hearing out the large paintball community before you decide. And please, explain to me the need for such a drastic ban. Is it really neccessary to ban the use of paintball equipment on over 1,000,000 acres of DNR land and forests? What has provoked this rapid and extreme decision. I want to hear your side of the story, please hear ours.
Concerned Paintballer,
Zach Kroll
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:31 PM #60
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i have to say, i strongly disagree with most of what has been said here. i, for one, have been playing for a number of years, and i do my best to spread the good name of the sport and dispell rediculous rumors. in my opinion, this law is a wonderful idea. should it come to legislation, i would be 100% behind it. do not accuse me of being too lazy to do anything about the situation, as that is far from the truth. what people are not seeing is that this ban prevents paintball on public land only. this will not infringe on your right to use your equipment on your own property, or a friend's. this will not effect paintball fields or organizations.

note that they do not want it to be illeagal to have, but illeagal to use on public property. in my opinion, anyone who is shooting a marker outside of an official paintball field or their own property is doing something wrong. not only do people tend to violate the land they are using (ie cut down trees or build bunkers), but they often play without the necisary and required safety equipment for themselves, and they NEVER have proper safety equipment to protect bystanders. very specialized netting is required, and its never used. this puts any person or animals in the near vecinity in danger. in fact, i believe that this type of play is what has earned paintball a good part of it's bad name in the first place.

this law would help to eliminate driveby shootings, vandalism, and that sort of thing. now, i also understand many people's worries that this is the first stone in a path to banning paintball all together. however, your not realising how much of an infringement of rights this would be. first of all, as long as the right to bear arms and the rest of the bill of rights is intact, they will not be able to touch paintball on private property. there is no way they can come near us knowing that a much more common, much more dangerous form of projectile weaponry is perfectly leagal. by the time a state legislature banned paintball, so many civil rights would have been violated, that the situation would have stretched far outside the paintball community.

in short, i am 100% for the passing of this law, if it is indeed inside the parameters that have been described to me. paintball, like any other projectile sport such as riflery or archery, has no place outside of a safe secure area, or private homes. it can be a danger to anyone in the vecinity, and is completely inappopriate. i feel for all the "weekend warriors", and "backyard ballers" out there, but if they aren't playing on land they own or have permission to use, they shouldn't be playing at all. should a law like this come to my hometown in new york, i would welcome it with open arms, and do my best to see it put into effect.

Last edited by morpheusZ : 12-18-2001 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 12-18-2001, 04:37 PM #61
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PLEASE READ RAEHL'S POST BEFORE YOU KEEP PESTERING LEGISLATORS on what turned out to be a HYPED, BASELESS RUMOR.

This smelled from the git go-- I saw how it was twisted to pursuade the weaker-minded folks of the paintball community that paintball itself, as a sport, would be outlawed in the state of Wisconsin. PLEASE read Raehl's post (4 or 5 above this one) and calm down. Thanx.
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Old 12-18-2001, 05:07 PM #62
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A few quick questions for all you on here supporting this ban. Do you feel that the government has the right to take away public lands and tell citizens what can and can't be done? In an earlier post someone said "what if a hunter loses an eye to a paintball?", well what if a hunter shot a paintballer? Should we take away the right to hunt public lands?

To the folks complaining about enviromental damage. Does paintball do more damage to an ecosystem than mountain biking, or ATV riding, or horseback riding, or even hunting? Here in Michigan we have areas set aside for MTB, ATV's, horses, trucks, boats, and state parks even have athletic facilities. Is there a valid reason why we should not be able to play paintball on public lands? Everyone of you pays for this land shouldn't everyone have the oppurtunity (SP) to use it?

I agree 100% that we don't need people going out and playing paintball anywhere they want. However I do feel that the DNT should set aside certain areas to play. If any one here can post a valid rebuttal to this please do. I have tried to think of one the whole time I was reading this post and can't.

I have e-mailed the entire list of state reps listed above and forwarded copies to all my own state legislatures. The argument of taking rights away bit by bit is very good. I can think of countless right that were taken away in the last 30 years. Can you think of any that were given back?
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Old 12-18-2001, 05:25 PM #63
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here is a idea i thought of just reading from the first page

send them e-mails
call them
ask them how many deaths per year occur from smoking
ask them why they havevn't panned smoking or cigarattes???

i would like them to answer those two simple question everyone send them those two questions they will have to answer if not they are denying our rights
they are denying our rights here
they have to have this to were someone or it is public so that people can get a fight ready to defend this sport we play


oh yeah
ask them how much the taxes from paintball are put into the state and state forests

i bet most of the money goes straight in to the forest


sorry if this has been posted b4 i thought of this on the first page and wanted everyone to hear me before the time was up and we had no chance to fight this
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