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Old 06-25-2014, 10:39 AM #1
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Ramping Hide-aways?

So I'm not too sure how else to title this event, but I had to start someplace

Story:
Tuesday nights are streetball nights at my field, It's fun, laid back, and relatively low-key (3v3's, 4v4's, snap drills, laning games, etc). Last night, there were a few new faces, not locals, which was all fun and good to meet them. New ballers, new faces, new competition.

The first game that we played, it was me and the typical Tuesday regulars against the newcomers (4v4). There was an absurd amount of paint flying around, much more so than usual, and it was all coming from their side of the field. After a few minutes of stagnant activity, I took a chance and went for a run-through to get things moving again. Bunkered the guy in the snake, and proceeded to be LIT UP by his teammate from the back can. After walking to the dead area on the away side of the field, I was watching the guy who shot me out shoot at the remainder of my teammates. Lo and behold, he was ramping. I knew there was far too much paint flying around to be strictly semi (field rules). I signaled the ref to check him and when the ref was walking over, he reloaded and switched back to semi (saw the whole thing). After his field check, switched his ramping back on.

After the game ended (we lost that one), I asked him if I could try out his gun since it was a new DM. His response was that he didn't let anybody shoot it because it was brand new. I gave him a look, one of those "I know what you're doing" type of looks, and he just walked off to the staging area to get ready for the next game.

Please don't mistake this as a post about hating on ramping. I've played it before. Bunkered people with it before. Been bunkered with it before. It's all part of the game. However, I do genuinely believe there is a time and a place for everything, and that rules exist for a reason. This is not PSP. This is not team practice. This is fun, laid back paintball at a local paintball field with a bunch of dudes who are playing just for fun. There's no reason for me to have so many shots in one area of my side that my skin breaks and I spend the rest of the night bleeding on my jersey. There's no reason for you to be an ******* and think that you're above the rules and hide what you're truly doing from people.

And in the off chance that this guy was a ranked player or a serious baller trying to advance, playing semi will only even out the field and force you to take better shots.

I'm not too sure what I'm hoping to accomplish with this post, other than to vent and possibly see if anybody else has had similar/same experiences, or offer any other tips on how to call somebody like this out. My welts and I thank you for listening haha.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:56 AM #2
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I've been noticing an increase in overshooting people at my local field. Not necessarily ramping, though a few times it has been and the field does not allow ramping except in team practice, but just putting excessive paint on people. For instance, after one game I had a cluster of 7 (maybe 8, one was hard to tell if it was one shot or two) welts in a 2" circle on my stomach. Simultaneously, I'm impressed by his accuracy, but also pissed because it wasn't necessary.

Some players are just *******s, sadly not much can be done about it.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:02 AM #3
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Maybe they come form a place where ramping is standard. I personally would assume that ramping would be standard on a weeknight where only hardcores show up, though I would find it in poor form not to at least ask.

What gun lets you change from semi to ramping so fast?
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:13 AM #4
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This is one of the exact reasons PSP created its ramping rules. Early 2000's there was a rash of cheater boards/chips or guns that had low debounce filters that would add shots. Hidden modes that would have full auto first pull and semi after that, or boards that had percentage ramping that kicked in only after the trigger was held for X seconds. They would chrono and get checked for ramping, pass, then fire another shot before the game only holding down the trigger for the predetermined time and activate the ramping. Firing one or two shots standing at the starting box isn't uncommon so they would go unnoticed, hit the power button (or any other button) to disable when the game was over or if they got checked mid-game. Lo and behold, no ramping.

Changing the rules was an attempt to level the playing field.

I completely agree that people that use cheater ramping or any modes that are against field rules takes the fun away for other people on the field and can even be dangerous.

Saw a player kicked out of a field, asked not to return for a while, after he dropped his gun in the staging area and fired off a burst of 15-20 shots before a quick thinking ref turned the ASA off. He had turned the debounce so low and set his trigger so light that it wouldn't stop firing on it's own, the force of the recoil would "trigger" the next shot. (It was a Intimidator of some sort).
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:27 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryn_Droma View Post
Some players are just *******s, sadly not much can be done about it.
Tell me about it.

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Originally Posted by BMJoker View Post
Maybe they come form a place where ramping is standard. I personally would assume that ramping would be standard on a weeknight where only hardcores show up, though I would find it in poor form not to at least ask.
This makes sense, and is possible, but they still had to chrono before going onto the field. If they had ramping on without checking, it would have been caught there. (They arrived before me, and already had a few games in, so I can't speak for how they were shooting prior to our game).

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I completely agree that people that use cheater ramping or any modes that are against field rules takes the fun away for other people on the field and can even be dangerous.

Saw a player kicked out of a field, asked not to return for a while, after he dropped his gun in the staging area and fired off a burst of 15-20 shots before a quick thinking ref turned the ASA off. He had turned the debounce so low and set his trigger so light that it wouldn't stop firing on it's own, the force of the recoil would "trigger" the next shot. (It was a Intimidator of some sort).
Don't really understand the motivation in using modifications to the marker to up your rate of fire. You're just burning through more paint and hurting your skill level long term (IMO).
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:52 PM #6
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Can you really change the firing modes on the new DMs that fast?
If so, they should market that next time.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:53 PM #7
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Originally Posted by HerpaDerpa View Post
Don't really understand the motivation in using modifications to the marker to up your rate of fire. You're just burning through more paint and hurting your skill level long term (IMO).
Not necessarily, I think Russian legion is famous for this quote. "Kill them with volume" maybe that's just their play style, some guys shoot a lot of paint, some guys don't, personally I do, depending where on the field I'm playing, my snake guys will shoot a case if that on one day and still get tons of kills. So paint usage a comes down to each players playing style I believe.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:00 PM #8
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I think you're looking into it too much... ramping may not be entirely fair at your field, but really, it isn't THAT big of a difference..
I play primarily with ramping because that is what most fields around me use for practices and if I jumped into a streetball game I wouldn't change my settings or expect anyone else to.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:13 PM #9
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I think you're looking into it too much... ramping may not be entirely fair at your field, but really, it isn't THAT big of a difference..
Prove it.

Everyone likes to say it's not a big deal, but really it is. It is NOT semi auto. When it's not allowed at the field is IS cheating.

If you really think it's not a huge advantage, turn it off. Play the rest of the summer with pure legal semi auto (capped of course). If you can do it and not feel handicapped or outgunned then you've proved your point.

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I play primarily with ramping because that is what most fields around me use for practices and if I jumped into a streetball game I wouldn't change my settings or expect anyone else to.
If the field only allows semi auto on that day you'd be cheating. Plain and simple. I would INSIST that all players follow the posted firing mode restrictions that day. If the field wants to make it a ramping day, or heck a full auto day (one local field has these once a month), that's fine, but that should be advertised in advance and clearly posted.


And totally aside, I've always found the term "Streetball" a bit insulting. It's recreational speedball. The name streetball was merely a way for people who thought "rec player" was an insult to get in some recreational play while being able to still pretend that they didn't play recreationally. The type who'd die of embarrassment if they ever got shot out by a tippmann.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:31 PM #10
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With the DAM I can go from Ramping to semi-auto in a heartbeat. However, I rarely use ramping since I can put enough paint in the air for most scenario/woodsball games with semi only.

As was mentioned though, if you're on a semi only field and switch on ramping, that's is cheating. Regardless of the advantage or non-advantage argument, you should be on semi like the rest because that's the rule. Full Stop.

You'll note in the story that the player knew he was supposed to be on Semi only since he turned the ramping off before the ref could check it then turned it back on when he left. So he knows he's breaking the rules and doing it anyway. That I don't like.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:35 PM #11
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Prove it. Everyone likes to say it's not a big deal, but really it is. It is NOT semi auto. When it's not allowed at the field is IS cheating. If you really think it's not a huge advantage, turn it off. Play the rest of the summer with pure legal semi auto (capped of course). If you can do it and not feel handicapped or outgunned then you've proved your point. If the field only allows semi auto on that day you'd be cheating. Plain and simple. I would INSIST that all players follow the posted firing mode restrictions that day. If the field wants to make it a ramping day, or heck a full auto day (one local field has these once a month), that's fine, but that should be advertised in advance and clearly posted. And totally aside, I've always found the term "Streetball" a bit insulting. It's recreational speedball. The name streetball was merely a way for people who thought "rec player" was an insult to get in some recreational play while being able to still pretend that they didn't play recreationally. The type who'd die of embarrassment if they ever got shot out by a tippmann.
I don't mean to come off rudely but I played for YEARS when ramping wasn't even a part of the sport , from owning a 1997 Bob Long FX auto cocker to now , so I know all about playing with slower guns and getting the job done . While I haven't done it in awhile because I haven't needed to, I'm pretty certain I could play just as well in semi mode as I can in ramping, in fact if you ask anyone that has played with me I shoot very little paint while still being effective .. And to be totally honest, you sound like a baby talking about being offended by the term streetball. Maybe that's your own concept of what streetball is, but to me it is and has been a group of tournament players or tournament level players who get together on off hours to play tournament style paintball and do other types of drills, etc together . Rec speedball is throwing together walk ons and randoms and whoever shows up on any given weekend and wants to play on the airball field. There is a different level of competition in my experience. More annoyingly, however, is your entitlement to feel that a term that has nothing to do with you and probably only makes you feel excluded is offensive.
All of that being said, I agree that if everyone has agreed to play semi or that is the only thing the field allows ( which is kind of silly if you think about it sits more shooting "theoretically" would mean higher paint sales) then you are indeed cheating if you play on ramping. Not because it is, in my opinion, a significant advantage, but because the rules say you can't .
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:05 PM #12
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Was it a dm 14? I can say from owning one that to change any settings you have to take the grip off and flip a dip switch to change from semi. After it changed you have to flip the dip switch back to be out of settings. Not saying he wasn't doing it or anything but if it was a dm 14 I don't see how he could have changed all that without being caught and taking a few mins. Taking the grip off in the middle of the game would be odd to. Not to mention the dip switch is extremely small and I have to use a pick to flip it even.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:58 PM #13
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Quote:
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I don't mean to come off rudely but I played for YEARS when ramping wasn't even a part of the sport , from owning a 1997 Bob Long FX auto cocker to now , so I know all about playing with slower guns and getting the job done . While I haven't done it in awhile because I haven't needed to, I'm pretty certain I could play just as well in semi mode as I can in ramping, in fact if you ask anyone that has played with me I shoot very little paint while still being effective ..
Prove it. Turn off the ramping. If you don't need it, don't use it. If it's not an advantage, don't use it. If it's effectively the same, don't use it.

I've made the challenge a number of times over the years, not one person has had the guts to do it.

Quote:
And to be totally honest, you sound like a baby talking about being offended by the term streetball. Maybe that's your own concept of what streetball is, but to me it is and has been a group of tournament players or tournament level players who get together on off hours to play tournament style paintball and do other types of drills, etc together.
There's a name for that, it's called a "practice". EVERY instance of streetball I've ever seen, been too, or heard about was like the original poster described, whoever shows up plays. As in, who ever happens to "walk on" to the field is there to play. Background and experience is irrelevant. No one is checking APPA rankings or only allowing people on registered PSP teams. A "fun laid back" day of paintball, just like the OP said.

Quote:
Rec speedball is throwing together walk ons and randoms and whoever shows up on any given weekend and wants to play on the airball field. There is a different level of competition in my experience.
Same as the above, whoever shows up plays. A fun laid back day of paintball. So same thing. Fun part about good rec play is you never know the level of competition you'll find. Sometimes it's low, sometimes it's a bunch of people way better than you. That's what keeps it interesting.

Though locally many of the fields have started having "advanced open play" which more accurately describes what you're talking about. Same thing as normal open play, but they allow ramping and bunkering. I appreciate this, gives players a choice. And it's not trying to pretend it's not open play by hiding behind a code word.

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More annoyingly, however, is your entitlement to feel that a term that has nothing to do with you and probably only makes you feel excluded is offensive.
I find anything that even attempts to make anyone feel excluded to be offensive, on general principle. But it's about the hypocrisy. Nearly all players are rec players, yes even most "tournament players" (though since all you need to play in a tournament is to pay the entry fee anyone can give themselves that label). It's not a competition day, it's not a practice, but you want to play just for fun. Great, play recreationally, you will be welcomed. It's those who claim that playing recreationally is beneath them, but do it anyways as long as it's cloaked under a code name so they can continue to look down their noses at other players that really get my goat.

Quote:
All of that being said, I agree that if everyone has agreed to play semi or that is the only thing the field allows ( which is kind of silly if you think about it sits more shooting "theoretically" would mean higher paint sales) then you are indeed cheating if you play on ramping. Not because it is, in my opinion, a significant advantage, but because the rules say you can't .
At the OP's field it was clearly stated that the field did not allow ramping, so your first response seemed to indicate that you would continue to ramp against the field rules. Glad you cleared that up.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:35 PM #14
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Prove it. Turn off the ramping. If you don't need it, don't use it. If it's not an advantage, don't use it. If it's effectively the same, don't use it. I've made the challenge a number of times over the years, not one person has had the guts to do it. There's a name for that, it's called a "practice". EVERY instance of streetball I've ever seen, been too, or heard about was like the original poster described, whoever shows up plays. As in, who ever happens to "walk on" to the field is there to play. Background and experience is irrelevant. No one is checking APPA rankings or only allowing people on registered PSP teams. A "fun laid back" day of paintball, just like the OP said. Same as the above, whoever shows up plays. A fun laid back day of paintball. So same thing. Fun part about good rec play is you never know the level of competition you'll find. Sometimes it's low, sometimes it's a bunch of people way better than you. That's what keeps it interesting. Though locally many of the fields have started having "advanced open play" which more accurately describes what you're talking about. Same thing as normal open play, but they allow ramping and bunkering. I appreciate this, gives players a choice. And it's not trying to pretend it's not open play by hiding behind a code word. I find anything that even attempts to make anyone feel excluded to be offensive, on general principle. But it's about the hypocrisy. Nearly all players are rec players, yes even most "tournament players" (though since all you need to play in a tournament is to pay the entry fee anyone can give themselves that label). It's not a competition day, it's not a practice, but you want to play just for fun. Great, play recreationally, you will be welcomed. It's those who claim that playing recreationally is beneath them, but do it anyways as long as it's cloaked under a code name so they can continue to look down their noses at other players that really get my goat. At the OP's field it was clearly stated that the field did not allow ramping, so your first response seemed to indicate that you would continue to ramp against the field rules. Glad you cleared that up.
Even if I wanted to prove it to you, short of videotaping myself , which I'm probably not going to do ( not because I can't but because honestly, it's an internet discussion and what's the point) , how would I ever do that? Take my word for it, I played 10man NPPL and D1 NPPL 7 man and believe me when I tell you that there was more paint shot then, and often at higher rates of fire - particularly during the 7 man NPPL days when as long as you gun didn't bounce it was legal - and I did just fine .. And when the switch happened to ramping, for a long while I didn't use ramping for no other reason than I am painfully lazy and didn't want to mess with my gun and didn't feel I needed it.
I'm not sure where you're from, but whenever I have played streetball it was generally players who have played frequently and participate in tournaments . I am not saying it is a prerequisite, moreso that people who knew to show up for these games which were usually off hours , Wednesday evenings or whatever, were also tournament type players . What I'm saying is that no one is excluded but the people that show up are the regulars.
When I think of walk on speedball, I think of new rental players , younger kids, occasional players, corporate outings, etc that end up playing on the airball field among the other recball fields. It's all semantics - the difference is more like showing up at your YMCA and playing a game of pickup basketball and showing up at Rucker Park in NY for a game .. Same concept, different level of expectation in terms of competition.
I still find it borderline nauseating that you are such a bleeding heart that you need to stand up and take offense on behalf of anyone who was ever excluded .. I really think that's a bit dramatic and you'd love a happier life if you didn't let the little things get to you.
Finally, I never said I would play against the field rules - I simply said that I wouldn't expect or ask anyone to change their settings and to me it isn't really a big deal. If people feel they NEED ramping to win then they're already a loser.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:15 PM #15
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Even if I wanted to prove it to you, short of videotaping myself , which I'm probably not going to do ( not because I can't but because honestly, it's an internet discussion and what's the point) , how would I ever do that?
Oh, it's not about proving anything to "me". It's to get people (such as yourself) to think. If ramping is totally, truly, not an advantage over an equally capped semi then it would be no big deal at all to switch over.

If there is an advantage, and switching to semi would put a player at a disadvantage against rampers of equal skill, then logically there would be reluctance to switching back.

So the question is, is it no big deal to switch back and stick to one ball per trigger pull when everyone else is getting multiple balls per trigger pull, or are you reluctant to switch back?

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Take my word for it, I played 10man NPPL and D1 NPPL 7 man and believe me when I tell you that there was more paint shot then, and often at higher rates of fire - particularly during the 7 man NPPL days when as long as you gun didn't bounce it was legal - and I did just fine ..
Of course you did just fine, you were using the same firing setup as everyone else. That's not the issue at all. It also has nothing to do with your personal skills (I really couldn't care less if you're a first time renter or a Pro in this discussion). It's entirely if one mode is more advantageous over another mode, all other things being equal. Is it easier to shoot a pump over a bolt action. Is it easier to shoot a mech semi auto over a pump. Is it easier to shoot an electro over a mech. Is it easier to shoot ramping over semi. Is it easier to shoot full auto over ramp.

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And when the switch happened to ramping, for a long while I didn't use ramping for no other reason than I am painfully lazy and didn't want to mess with my gun and didn't feel I needed it.
You probably would have actually been at a disadvantage switching over immediately. A sudden change like that tends to throw off the muscle memory. Heck, think of the old school teams who continued to play pump after semi autos first came out. They did just fine, for a while, until the inherent advantages forced them to change to stay competitive.

Of course deliberately playing at a disadvantage to challenge yourself is all kinds of fun, but that's another discussion.

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I'm not sure where you're from, but whenever I have played streetball it was generally players who have played frequently and participate in tournaments.
Or as one local field near me would call it, open play on Sunday.
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I am not saying it is a prerequisite, moreso that people who knew to show up for these games which were usually off hours , Wednesday evenings or whatever, were also tournament type players . What I'm saying is that no one is excluded but the people that show up are the regulars.
The industry has always had a word for games where only those who were told it was happening show up, and is not at the same time as open play...a Private Reservation. Nothing wrong with that, just admit it for what it is.

I have no issue with the actual event, just the attitude that it's somehow different than what every other player, from birthday party group to pro players playing walk on, has been doing for decades.

Quote:
When I think of walk on speedball, I think of new rental players , younger kids, occasional players, corporate outings, etc
...and frequent players, and occasional tournament players, and frequent tournament players. All players really.

I've seen a local field go out of business due to too many players thinking that since they had a few tournaments under their belt (or worse, that they merely owned a jersey and an electro) that they were now "too good" for walk on play. Take away too many regulars and the rest find another field, and the occasionals move on since there wasn't a decent crowd every weekend. At that point it becomes self perpetuating, no experianced players playing walk on, so experienced players won't show up to play walk on.

Quote:
...that end up playing on the airball field among the other recball fields. It's all semantics - the difference is more like showing up at your YMCA and playing a game of pickup basketball and showing up at Rucker Park in NY for a game .. Same concept, different level of expectation in terms of competition.
So, the little kids are the one playing at the park? (that's a joke of course)

Yet neither claims to be playing a different game (probably, I suck at basketball, probably why I enjoy a game where I have a device that throws balls for me )

Though totally off topic, but does anyone else have trouble taking a reference to something happening in NY seriously? It always feels like someone referencing Middle Earth, or Narnia, or Metropolis. Not a dig on NY specifically, I get the same feeling when people talk about LA, or London, or Paris. They're settings, places you see on TV and in movies. Not places where, well, real things happen (even though real things of course do happen there). At best they feel like places you visit on vacation, like Disney World. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if people in those cities felt the same way about, well everywhere else. Just a weird thought that popped into my head just now, carry on.

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I still find it borderline nauseating that you are such a bleeding heart that you need to stand up and take offense on behalf of anyone who was ever excluded .. I really think that's a bit dramatic and you'd love a happier life if you didn't let the little things get to you.
Little old redneck, gun toting, working stiff me has never been called a "bleeding heart" before. But the question is, what gets you to "stand up and take offense"? So far it seem to be "getting more shots per trigger pull is like totally the same as just one shot per trigger pull", and "paintballers who want to play recreationally, but not be thought of as playing recreationally, should use a totally different name for the game instead of admitting that they want to play recreationally".

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Finally, I never said I would play against the field rules - I simply said that I wouldn't expect or ask anyone to change their settings and to me it isn't really a big deal. If people feel they NEED ramping to win then they're already a loser.
If you don't NEED ramping, it should be totally no big deal to turn it off and play capped semi. Right?
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:56 AM #16
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Oh, it's not about proving anything to "me". It's to get people (such as yourself) to think. If ramping is totally, truly, not an advantage over an equally capped semi then it would be no big deal at all to switch over. If there is an advantage, and switching to semi would put a player at a disadvantage against rampers of equal skill, then logically there would be reluctance to switching back. So the question is, is it no big deal to switch back and stick to one ball per trigger pull when everyone else is getting multiple balls per trigger pull, or are you reluctant to switch back? Of course you did just fine, you were using the same firing setup as everyone else. That's not the issue at all. It also has nothing to do with your personal skills (I really couldn't care less if you're a first time renter or a Pro in this discussion). It's entirely if one mode is more advantageous over another mode, all other things being equal. Is it easier to shoot a pump over a bolt action. Is it easier to shoot a mech semi auto over a pump. Is it easier to shoot an electro over a mech. Is it easier to shoot ramping over semi. Is it easier to shoot full auto over ramp. You probably would have actually been at a disadvantage switching over immediately. A sudden change like that tends to throw off the muscle memory. Heck, think of the old school teams who continued to play pump after semi autos first came out. They did just fine, for a while, until the inherent advantages forced them to change to stay competitive. Of course deliberately playing at a disadvantage to challenge yourself is all kinds of fun, but that's another discussion. Or as one local field near me would call it, open play on Sunday. The industry has always had a word for games where only those who were told it was happening show up, and is not at the same time as open play...a Private Reservation. Nothing wrong with that, just admit it for what it is. I have no issue with the actual event, just the attitude that it's somehow different than what every other player, from birthday party group to pro players playing walk on, has been doing for decades. ...and frequent players, and occasional tournament players, and frequent tournament players. All players really. I've seen a local field go out of business due to too many players thinking that since they had a few tournaments under their belt (or worse, that they merely owned a jersey and an electro) that they were now "too good" for walk on play. Take away too many regulars and the rest find another field, and the occasionals move on since there wasn't a decent crowd every weekend. At that point it becomes self perpetuating, no experianced players playing walk on, so experienced players won't show up to play walk on. So, the little kids are the one playing at the park? (that's a joke of course) Yet neither claims to be playing a different game (probably, I suck at basketball, probably why I enjoy a game where I have a device that throws balls for me ) Though totally off topic, but does anyone else have trouble taking a reference to something happening in NY seriously? It always feels like someone referencing Middle Earth, or Narnia, or Metropolis. Not a dig on NY specifically, I get the same feeling when people talk about LA, or London, or Paris. They're settings, places you see on TV and in movies. Not places where, well, real things happen (even though real things of course do happen there). At best they feel like places you visit on vacation, like Disney World. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if people in those cities felt the same way about, well everywhere else. Just a weird thought that popped into my head just now, carry on. Little old redneck, gun toting, working stiff me has never been called a "bleeding heart" before. But the question is, what gets you to "stand up and take offense"? So far it seem to be "getting more shots per trigger pull is like totally the same as just one shot per trigger pull", and "paintballers who want to play recreationally, but not be thought of as playing recreationally, should use a totally different name for the game instead of admitting that they want to play recreationally". If you don't NEED ramping, it should be totally no big deal to turn it off and play capped semi. Right?
You certainly are relentless. Sure, it's no big deal to turn off ramping .. Now . Ironically, of all the guns I've owned, the one I own now is the first with an LED screen since ramping became the norm - as I stated previously, I am painfully lazy and the idea of messing with blinking LED light settings to switch from semi to ramp or vice versa is honestly just annoying and not something I wanted to do. I am not a techy person, I don't learn my settings and what all the flashy colors means - I shoot the gun as long as it works. It has been that way since I took apart my first Automag RT and it never shot right again. So no, NOW it isn't a big deal to turn ramping off . Not it is a big deal to me if someone is playing with ramping on. Very little actually makes me stand up and take offense because I don't concern myself with every single persons feelings. I try to be courteous and respectful to others but I am not their savior and frankly I feel that as a whole our society has become soft and constantly apologetic to everyone . You find a harmless term that is probably more a matter of semantics than anything else to be offensive when it has nothing at all to do with you. You can manipulate my words however you'd like, there is a distinction between the terms "streetball" and "rec speedball" that you are clearly missing , probably because you haven't ever played real streetball. The main difference is that I would never mix a walk on , first timer, clearly rec occasional player into a streetball type game . It wouldn't be fair and it would turn the player away pretty quickly . There is, IMHO, a different level of intensity and competition while playing . It is not team practice, it is not organized that way- it's like a pick up game . Team practices are on Saturdays or Sundays ( or both ) while the rec speedballers are busy playing 10 v 10 on a hyper pipe field. I almost got offended at your lame attempt to tell me that I'm saying that ramping is the same as semi, but then I remember that I don't give a **** about your opinion and that since I'm clearly not a moron you just know I don't see it that way. The way I do see it is as follows : ramping allows you to sustain , in general, a maximum of let's say 12.5bps. You can maintain this speed until your loader is empty , and only that long . In semi, you can maintain whatever speed is physically possible for YOU individually , often higher than 12.5bps. It may take slightly more effort to get to that speed, but inevitably there will be times when you can shoot way faster than 12.5bps.The point is , it's only a disadvantage to be in semi if you wrongfully assume no one can shoot that fast on their own . And no, no one claims to be playing a different game in my analogy except that the term streetball is loosely derived from those higher caliber pickup matches in Rucker Park . It is the idea and understanding that while it is for fun and not for money (or a true serious practice for paintball ) that there is still an inherent expectation as to the skill of the people participating. It isn't to say that a first time player isn't allowed but that a first time player wouldn't know to show up on a Wednesday at 6 to play. One last thing - I assure you NY is very real and very real things happen there . I have been going to the city my whole life and it is truly an incredible place . If you've never been, you need to go. It is culture beyond anything you can imagine .
Oh btw , you had made a remark that you've seen fields go out of business because too many players thought they were above walk ons - while I have seen people that feel that way, it would seem to me to be a prudent decision to separate the tournament and regular players from the new players . New players = $ and exposing them to regulars who are going to put them at a distinct disadvantage does nothing but drive away those new players . I think it is wrong to throw a rental player onto the field with a bunch of weekly players and expect them to feel like they belong .
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:44 AM #17
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At my field, if youre a tournament player, you dont play rec ball, thats "beneath you" type of thinking. Thats why I stopped tournament play. Its taking the fun out of the game. Id much rather play with renters, help them out and make sure they keep coming back then play speedball and get shot 30 times a game. Paintball is suppose to be fun. Tournament and competition can ruin that for people. Just ask people why they quit in 2004 or 2005 or whatever when there were basically no rules, it was no fun. If we dont police our selves and the other players, paintball is going to get an even worse rep than it already has. 10 bsp semi and it puts everyone on a much more level field.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:16 AM #18
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In 18 years on and off of playing, I have never been to a field with a 10bps cap..ever.
There are many different facets to paintball - the tournament scene serves its purposes as does the rec scene, the magfed and milsim guys, etc.
You are not beholden to play one type of paintball, that's part of the beauty of the sport.
I don't think rec ball is beneath me in any way, in fact my first day back after taking a break from the sport was all recball, all in the woods or on themed fields.. it was alot of fun, but it is not where I have the most fun.
I prefer to be highly competitive and play that way - I don't have fun shooting unsuspecting new players over and over again..
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:36 AM #19
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maybe i should add that I only play pump.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:52 AM #20
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I would definitely say that that makes a big difference in a discussion concerning ROF.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:42 AM #21
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At my field, if youre a tournament player, you dont play rec ball, thats "beneath you" type of thinking. Thats why I stopped tournament play. Its taking the fun out of the game. Id much rather play with renters, help them out and make sure they keep coming back then play speedball and get shot 30 times a game. Paintball is suppose to be fun. Tournament and competition can ruin that for people. Just ask people why they quit in 2004 or 2005 or whatever when there were basically no rules, it was no fun. If we dont police our selves and the other players, paintball is going to get an even worse rep than it already has. 10 bsp semi and it puts everyone on a much more level field.
/rant
I hear ya man. And I believe this is what Fubarius is talking about as well. I got sick and tired of playing with those types of people. I once had a "tourney" type who was a ref at a woodsball tourney I entered make the side-comment "if this were a REAL tournament...yadda, yadda...(I stopped listening as soon as he said that). I felt like telling him to get on the field or shut his trap. Honestly, "tourney-mentality" players ruined tournament play for me. The ironic thing is that I've been playing tourneys since the mid-90s -- long before most of the douchebaggery came about (sure, there were always bad apples in there, but not like today.)

In this day and age, whenever I've played "practices" (for tourney players will never come out and say "recreational" games), it consisted of everyone ramping, two-cases-apiece per day, bunkering w/ 4-5 shots to the head, f-bomb after f-bomb, gun-throwing, blatant wiping through MULTIPLE hits, smoking weed/drinking beer in the parking lots, and more f-bombs. Not the kind of people I want to associate with.

I'm getting to a point somewhere with this. Oh -- here it is. The aforementioned dickbags are not REAL tourney players. Real men (and women) do not act that way. So the guys in the threadstarter's original post are just tourney wannabes. A graceful competitor knows when it's time to tone it down for a relaxed game of ball vs. a high-speed, aggressive game. When the general consensus is that everyone wants to play hardball, then yeah, it's great -- those games are fun for experienced players. But people who can't handicap themselves or insist on using unfair (and illegal) advantages are stagnating the sport.
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