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Old 06-17-2014, 09:17 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
I usually ignore Wavesport.



Step 1.) Forget anything you heard in Down the Rabbit Hole.

Yeah, the wikipedia article is pretty much correct - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodi...and_motivation

It's important to draw a sharp distinction between quantum theory and interpretations of quantum theory. The Bohm interpretation is just a way of re-writing the math so the wavefunction becomes a physical "waveguide", but the results are identical to standard formulations. Well, it actually has notable deficiencies from the standpoint of conservation laws and symmetries, but that's a bit beyond our conversation.

And to anyone claiming God is energy, I believe you are misguided. Energy is the mathematical quantity which arises from a symmetry in time, which can be violated. If you want an inviolable symmetry (to the best of our knowledge), try this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPT_symmetry

But I would suggest that you're building your castle on a pillar of sand by constructing God with physics you don't understand.

Hey look, I can rhyme.
Its not that I dont understand its that I am trying to keep it simple the math and the formula aside I am aware that nothing matter in science if it cant be proven and repeats in a controlled environment. But this thread is more about the possibility or WHAT IF this was the case. The problem is not one that we can give satisfactory scientific answer. There is no way that we can answer the question what is the biology of God.

But I can point out the similarity of things that we are positive exist in though countless scientific study of such matter and what is traits of God are widely excepted.

As I said this is less about the physics and more about the possibility.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:21 PM #23
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Thanks everyone for posting and having debate on the topic I can learn something from everyone and hope that we can all share int he knowledge that is gleaned form the thread.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:56 PM #24
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I love the wave of water an now there are three grad level physics students.

As for my previous statement "they go wherever they want" they do because when one was shot at a time it still produced the same effect thus being in super position meaning every possible position at the same time and then only choosing or becoming one position.
Wave of huh...? Wave of probability you mean?

There is nothing that suggests that photons or electrons are sentient or "choose" anything. The key is that we can explain the waveform collapse which gives us predictive ability. In other words they follow patterns... again, non-random and not "wherever they want."
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:24 AM #25
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^ I don't know I think a valid argument is valid regardless of who makes it and good evidence is good regardless who presents it but you're right it is important to back up a claim.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:55 AM #26
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You either conveniently cut off my quote at that point to try and make you sound smart by attempting to disprove me or you just stopped reading at the worst possible moment.

I clearly said I may not believe in a God as most religions do. Meaning my view of God is not like a Christain God or Hindu God or any other God that is spoken of specifically in religions. I believe the true existence or image of a deity is simply unknowable. That's where Agnostic comes in. God being a form of energy makes more sense to me and that is my response for the OP.
I cut the qoute for brevity...anyone can go back and read the full qoute that wants to. My point is when asked if someone thinks that gods exists or that they believe in a god its a yes or no question. If your answer is Yes, thats your choice. I must have misunderstood what you where trying to say.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:57 AM #27
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It sounds like you might be a deist.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:25 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Mikey View Post
I cut the qoute for brevity...anyone can go back and read the full qoute that wants to. My point is when asked if someone thinks that gods exists or that they believe in a god its a yes or no question. If your answer is Yes, thats your choice. I must have misunderstood what you where trying to say.
no one asked that question in this thread.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:30 PM #29
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I didnt say anyone did...you made a statement regarding what label you go by and the question asked makes a difference to what someone may answer.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:36 PM #30
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This is not something you should be trying to use science to explain. If you come from the perspective that an eternal God created the universe it follows that everything is a manifestation of divine will. Science is a tool that can help humanity understand how Divine Will operates on a level we are able to interpret it and that's the best you can do. You basically have to see God in everything, every particle every "law" every person etc etc . the entire purpose of metaphysics is to study the "stuff beyond physics" so no, God is not energy or whatever the ****.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:58 PM #31
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This is true and the problem we face when trying to identify a "God". I am only looking at the JudeoChristian belief system. The primary religion of this country the US. I do relies I am online and there are many different types of religion but most share all the the bases I have listed in one form or another as traits of God or God's. That is why I stated them as a base line. It would be interested to see if my hypothesis would stand with other belief systems.
No offense but your hypothesis doesnt stand when using the judeochristian base line you came up with for one simple reason...you are equating two things that cannot be held to the same standard. Energy as a scietific concept can be studied and quantified, a deity(doesnt matter which one) cannot be studied this way. It doesnt matter what other belief system you plug into it, it will still have the same issue.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:17 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
This is not something you should be trying to use science to explain. If you come from the perspective that an eternal God created the universe it follows that everything is a manifestation of divine will. Science is a tool that can help humanity understand how Divine Will operates on a level we are able to interpret it and that's the best you can do. You basically have to see God in everything, every particle every "law" every person etc etc . the entire purpose of metaphysics is to study the "stuff beyond physics" so no, God is not energy or whatever the ****.
I tend to agree with this perspective.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:37 PM #33
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I tend to agree with this perspective.
Perspective is everything.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:42 AM #34
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I love the wave of water was a joke as in looking at the waves of water but we were talking about the wave of interference created when particles collide.

But I choose to believe that particles in super position choose to react in whatever way they deem most "expected". Thus the interference pattern is caused from a single proton burst shot one at a time with no outside expectation causing super position to take place and the proton to interfere with itself.

You guys are right and I agree it is all about perceptive and whatever perceptive you choose to view thing on is what you see as real and what even possibly effects matter to act in one way or a different way. That is what the split test proved. Just the act of observation changed the outcome, observation introduced the will or thought that something should happen in a certain way and when observed it did happen in that way when not observed an left to act on its own it acted in a different way.

As for god again I agree perspective is everything maybe you can't perceive God as energy but if you take things literally then one god Zues was represented by lighting and he was the supreme God in greek religion and we know that other religions speak of many different Gods. So it could be argued that the God of Gods is in fact energy if you just look at the lore and the science based on greek religion because we have proven that lighting is energy. Just saying
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:06 PM #35
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I love the wave of water was a joke as in looking at the waves of water but we were talking about the wave of interference created when particles collide.

But I choose to believe that particles in super position choose to react in whatever way they deem most "expected". Thus the interference pattern is caused from a single proton burst shot one at a time with no outside expectation causing super position to take place and the proton to interfere with itself.

You guys are right and I agree it is all about perceptive and whatever perceptive you choose to view thing on is what you see as real and what even possibly effects matter to act in one way or a different way. That is what the split test proved. Just the act of observation changed the outcome, observation introduced the will or thought that something should happen in a certain way and when observed it did happen in that way when not observed an left to act on its own it acted in a different way.

As for god again I agree perspective is everything maybe you can't perceive God as energy but if you take things literally then one god Zues was represented by lighting and he was the supreme God in greek religion and we know that other religions speak of many different Gods. So it could be argued that the God of Gods is in fact energy if you just look at the lore and the science based on greek religion because we have proven that lighting is energy. Just saying
You can't perceive God as energy because God isn't energy and energy isn't what you think of it as Umami explained. Your perception of reality is always subjective and though we've made significant strides in being able to fact check those perceptions, just because you perceive something one way doesn't mean that's the way it is.

You're looking for some objective answer where none exists and your looking for God embodied in the physical universe which is self defeating as human knowledge expands.

Never ever never take mythology literally. Myths are stories that never happened but always are. Whether people want to admit it or not, everyone's lives are dominated by myths. It's the way we make sense of events. There's no damned way around it. It doesn't matter what Zeus was since different groups always view the same object differently, it matters what purpose the character Zeus served in those stories.

Down the road people are going to look back at our mythology. It's found in **** like Carl Sagan's Cosmos. In literature like "The Last Question." In movies like 2001: A space Odyssey. You can even throw Moore's Law in there. Even if you're not a fan of that stuff, the presuppositions within those stories are held by most people you come across in one form or another.

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Old 06-19-2014, 08:26 PM #36
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Quote:
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You can't perceive God as energy because God isn't energy and energy isn't what you think of it as Umami explained. Your perception of reality is always subjective and though we've made significant strides in being able to fact check those perceptions, just because you perceive something one way doesn't mean that's the way it is.

You're looking for some objective answer where none exists and your looking for God embodied in the physical universe which is self defeating as human knowledge expands.

Never ever never take mythology literally. Myths are stories that never happened but always are. Whether people want to admit it or not, everyone's lives are dominated by myths. It's the way we make sense of events. There's no damned way around it. It doesn't matter what Zeus was since different groups always view the same object differently, it matters what purpose the character Zeus served in those stories.

Down the road people are going to look back at our mythology. It's found in **** like Carl Sagan's Cosmos. In literature like "The Last Question." In movies like 2001: A space Odyssey. You can even throw Moore's Law in there. Even if you're not a fan of that stuff, the presuppositions within those stories are held by most people you come across in one form or another.
That is your perception and it is based on other peoples thoughts or in other words their perception. As I have stated just try to have a conversation based on an original thought. Don't get me wrong I respect your option to choose to think however you would like but you can't say what God is or isn't because you don't know.
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:08 PM #37
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:35 PM #38
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:24 AM #39
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That is your perception and it is based on other peoples thoughts or in other words their perception. As I have stated just try to have a conversation based on an original thought. Don't get me wrong I respect your option to choose to think however you would like but you can't say what God is or isn't because you don't know.
But...didn't you do the same thing by saying god=energy?
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:00 PM #40
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But...didn't you do the same thing by saying god=energy?
He did. Que that tim and Eric gif where minds explode and ****.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:57 PM #41
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:57 AM #42
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No, I did not do the same thing. The difference is that you are saying that God is definitively not what I proposed. I just made a proposition I never said that is is fact. What you said is stated as fact "That God is not energy". That is something you can not say.
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