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Old 06-03-2014, 08:37 PM #1
Meest00gt
 
 
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DP G3 will not fire

Alright so, as the title says, the marker will not fire. This has been my first time trying to air it up. Everything aired up just fine, no leaks whatsoever. Before airing up the marker, I went through and greased/oiled all parts as stated in the manual.

The marker does have some mods: the Techt bolt, and a virtue bolt.

When I power up the marker with air connected, the light flashes blue, showing that the eyes are on, and there is a ball in chamber. Upon pulling the trigger, I hear the electronic click of the board, but the marker fails to fire. We took it all apart to double check some things but could not see a problem.. Also, we tried a new 9V battery to see if that was the problem, but no luck.

I bought this marker used, so I don't know a ton about it. As such, I'm turning to you guys on here to see if you can help me out.

Thanks for any and all help.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:55 PM #2
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Just a simple thing that can be overlooked........do you actually have the regulator turned up enough to get air flow?
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:01 PM #3
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I had adjusted the reg a few times to see if that was the issue, I never tried to go fully 'out' as I was thinking that wouldn't make sense since the techt bolt shouldn't require it to be. Some searching shows the solenoid being a possible problem, how common is this?

I'm also seeing something about pushing the solenoid forward/up (or some other similar comment), but I'm not sure exactly what to try/do. Are there any other things that jump out as a possible cause?

At this current time, the marker is apart in pieces in front of me. Taking a look at the solenoid, and everything else. So if there is anything else to look for specifically, let me know. When I get it back together, maybe I'll try to turn the reg up fully and see what happens.

Thanks for the quick reply, as always. It helps having the feedback.
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:35 PM #4
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So, did some messing around with the marker, got it back together and aired it up. There was some luck, the marker made a slight noise like it was firing, but did not sound like it was getting full velocity. After only a few "shots" it stopped again.

After this, noticed the solenoid was extremely quiet, really could not hear an audible click as you normally do. After we removed all air from the marker, and took off the regulator to inspect it, the solenoid was making its usual click. Does anyone have any ideas on this? This was tried a few times, and once the marker has air in it, the solenoid refuses to click.
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:42 PM #5
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You may have to get in there and service the solenoid. The piston in the noid may be stuck.
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Last edited by CA_Tectonics : 06-04-2014 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:09 AM #6
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How hard should it feel to take the piston out or put it back in? The solenoid was apart and lubricated as best as possible, but I'm just not sure as I haven't had to do this before.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:23 AM #7
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If you had already done so, then you should be good - depending on how much lube you used.

Backing up a second here....when you fire, is there any puffs of air coming from the breach area or grip frame?

Assuming the noid is fine, you may just have bolt stick. What lube are you using? How much are you using? How easy does the bolt head slide in and out of the boltstop on the TechT engine? Another possibility is an o-ring fitment issue or the breach o-ring needs replacing.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:08 AM #8
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The lubricant used on the bolt is planet eclipse silicon lubricant. Maybe the o-ring is the culprit? I suppose maybe try swapping that out.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:10 PM #9
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As said above too much lube can cause big problems and cause it not to fire i would take the noid back apart and lightly grease it and the bolt
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:41 AM #10
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I just spent the last month or so trying to fix a g3 I bought from someone who left it in storage. The solenoid would click just fine, but as soon as I adjusted the pressure higher on the reg, it would stop clicking and all I could hear was the faint electronic beep of the board. Highest FPS I could get to was 130 before it quit. I took it apart over a dozen times, replaced battery and all o-rings, checked reg shims, serviced the solenoid, everything I could think of. Then one day I swapped out the stock reg for a CP one I had laying around and it worked like a charm. If you have an extra regulator, try swapping them before you start messing around with the solenoid. It's easy to do and you'll save a ton of time if it works.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:03 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal54 View Post
I just spent the last month or so trying to fix a g3 I bought from someone who left it in storage. The solenoid would click just fine, but as soon as I adjusted the pressure higher on the reg, it would stop clicking and all I could hear was the faint electronic beep of the board. Highest FPS I could get to was 130 before it quit. I took it apart over a dozen times, replaced battery and all o-rings, checked reg shims, serviced the solenoid, everything I could think of. Then one day I swapped out the stock reg for a CP one I had laying around and it worked like a charm. If you have an extra regulator, try swapping them before you start messing around with the solenoid. It's easy to do and you'll save a ton of time if it works.
Interesting, I wish I had another reg to test that out. Unfortunately I'm getting kind of desperate, as there is the Giant Game this weekend near the Twin Cities in MN. I am on the fence about possibly picking up a different marker, then working on this one and making it a backup if we are able to get it running. Not an ideal situation, but a backup isn't a bad thing I suppose..
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:11 PM #12
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Alright everyone, so I'm revisiting this thread because the issue still persists. Ultimately I ended up bringing the gun into MN Pro locally in Burnsville MN, and was told they couldn't pinpoint the issue for me in the shop at the time, leaving me at a standstill, so I picked up a different marker to use and the G3 sat.

Fast-forward to now, I am either going to fix it, or sell it as-is to someone who knows how to fix it. I took it to the Pro Shop again with zero luck, and its been very frustrating. The tech told me it could be a noid OR reg problem, but couldn't/wouldn't help me pinpoint which. I don't want to invest in a parts kit only to find its a regulator problem and the solenoid is fine, or vice-versa.

I have the entire marker apart right now, swapped 9-volt again, noid clicks loud and clear, no bad o-rings to speak of, lubed up well, etc. Is there a way to tell if the solenoid is bad? I'm really puzzled as it all looks pretty well and clean. I can provide pictures if needed.
to move over to this thread
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:12 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meest00gt View Post
I can post there if that makes more sense. I'm basically stuck at the same spot yet, marker powers up, all seems well, but it will not cycle properly. So I'm just looking for indicators of a bad solenoid potentially, so that I can find the problem through process of elimination. The marker is currently in pieces yet so I can continue to look through everything. All the seals looked to be in great shape, everything clean, noid clicks loud and clear.
some more info to move
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:20 PM #14
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Quick way to rule out the reg is to simply use a pressure tester on it. A tester is basically an ASA with a gauge on it instead of a fitting (the other side of the ASA still has the plug).

Unscrew the reg from the marker and screw into the tester. Air up and see what the output is. Between ~180 and 230 psi and your reg can likely be ruled out.
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Old 03-14-2016, 07:35 PM #15
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Thank you!

I will have to bring thwith reg itself in then, possibly tomorrow. I may also look for other shops in the area more willing to help. I come from a small town originally and I remember years ago it wasn't uncommon for them to strip a marker down and show you exactly what's wrong and how to right it.

Is there any way to inspect a solenoid for issues or is it just a given that it will be the problem if it's not the regulator or bolt stick?
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:36 PM #16
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Unfortunately, there isn't a good bench test to check functionality of the solenoid other than what you've already been doing. The solinoid is basically made of 3 main parts. There is the spool (the part with the o-rings on it that is user serviceable and requires lube every now and then. Then there is an electromagnetic coil in the wired end that moves a piston that is in the center. The clicking you hear when the marker isn't aired up is actually that electromagnetic coil moving the piston. The spool only moves on air pressure. Therefore, the clicking that is usually used to troubleshoot the noid function only covers a portion of the actual functionality of the noid.

As for determining the issue, it comes down to a process of elimination. The DP noids are pretty robust and, after the initial pass/fail clicking test, I'll save the noid for last to dig into (unless it is an obvious leak from the noid).

If you want, I could take a look at your marker for you and get it up and working again. Although, I think is better in the long run if people learn to maintain their own markers. I can help either way.
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:41 PM #17
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Excellent information as always, I may have to take you up on that at this rate. My plan now is to swing by a pro shop with the regulator to see if we can't rule that out, not sure if I'd be best off bringing the entire marker based on my experience there so far. I'll report back with whatever I happen to find tomorrow after work.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 04-05-2016, 09:26 PM #18
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So, I've been pretty busy as of late, work picked up, and I haven't been able to do much with the marker. I had even considered taking a loss and trading/selling it as is, and picked up an autococker for a backup, which I just got up and running tonight.

At the same time I finished that, I figured I'd take another crack at the G3. here is what I have found.

The recommended dwell settings the community has posted in the G3 guide are between 8-10. I found that mine was at 5. Upon changing that to 9, the marker started to cycle, but it was very slight (not very loud or much air coming from the gun, but it was cycling with every trigger pull). So perhaps bolt stick, but it still wasn't quite right. Also, it was not shooting at all on the first shot, the noid would click, but no air until the following shots.

I then looked up the Anti Bolt Stick settings, mine was at 1, the recommended is 2-3, so I turned that up, and also increased the dwell a little further to see if it may help. Air up the gun, and now its back to nothing. The solenoid also was no longer making an audible 'click'. After I tried to fire a few more times, air began to leak around the black portion of the regulator (factory regulator, so near the top). I de-gassed the gun, and as air continued to come out, I continued to pull the trigger and eventually it started to fire again. So as it lost pressure, it fired, but again it was very soft and quiet. I tried returning the dwell to 9 while keeping the ABS at 3, now nothing, but again a leak from the regulator. I then turned the ABS to 1 again, to see if I could replicate what happened the very first time tonight, but no luck.

I may try to play more with the regulator next, but maybe someone can help me to get a more specific diagnosis of whats happening?

Thanks,

Ryan


Edit: messing around with the regulator and also adjusting the board settings to Dwell-9 and ABS-3, I have it firing very very softly again. No leaks. Maybe the grease used on it was too thick and its hanging up the bolt? I am using Planet Eclipse Grease, I know that TechT has another they recommend above all, but I would think others should work?

Also, I am not sure it is a regulator issue. I have a CP Reg that I use on my Impulse, which works perfectly. I have tried swapping that onto the G3 and it still acts the exact same, firing very softly.

Last edited by Meest00gt : 04-05-2016 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:30 PM #19
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Replied to your PM.

I'd start by setting the noid dwell to 12 and leaving it there for now. I think the goal at this point is to get the marker running first. Then adjust and tweak for optimal settings. Shouldn't need ABS so turn that off. Your PE lube should work fine so long as it is applied in the correct locations and not lathered on like Ectoplasm from Ghostbusters .
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:00 AM #20
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Just now reading up this thread, and I can tell you that I have also gone through this issue with my G3. I did everything that you did in the very same order. After damn near losing my mind and exhausting all of my resources, I decided to completely dismantle the solenoid. My reasoning was if I damage it beyond repair then I will just bite the bullet and buy a new one.

Here's what I have for you. Take the back of the solenoid apart buy removing the four screws and the tamper seal. You will find the electromagnetic coil and a piston. Wipe this piston dry and make sure that everything it touches is dry. This includes the inside of the coil housing that the piston rests in. Lastly, make sure that the rubber bumper at the end of the piston is also dry. Put everything together in reverse of how you took it apart and you should be good to go.

What I have found is there are a lot of users who simply don't know what they are doing when it comes to owning a marker. So they use many different lubes and oils in places that they shouldn't. Most likely some of the lube/oil that the previous owner or that you have used may have seeped into the back of the solenoid housing. This can cause a suction force at on the flat surface of the piston and the solenoid cap when the electromagnetic coil is charged and the piston makes contact with the flat facing end of the solenoid. So much so that the spring used to return the piston forward when the coil is discharged isn't strong enough to break the force created by said suction.

A bit of a lengthy post, but I think it will help you out. Let us know what happens after you have tried this.

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Old 04-06-2016, 02:02 PM #21
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Virtue board does the dwell settings in .25 or .5 increments (cannot remember which). Meaning, 10 blinks is only 5ms or less depending. I also believe the manual has a typo. I think if it says its in .25 it is really .5 (or vice versa).

All bolts for the G3 will cycle at 12ms dwell without any ABS.

It looks like these guys are taking care of you. Just some pointers.

If the Solenoid piston is gunked up, the gun will never work well. If you have not done that, do it. The PE grease is fine.
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