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Old 05-23-2014, 01:07 PM #64
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Haha, yes on my modified bolt I have a black o-ring and it is dragging in the can.
The photo was just posted to show the mods made. It now have the orange oring but it does not make that big differance on breaking paint.
The one thing I tested when I got my NT11 that seemed to work was increasing the dwell to 10-11. It way high but seemed to help more against breaking paint than any other mod. It still breaks paint though.
Does not even mater if I try to shoot at 250 fps it still breaks the same amount of paint.

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I was basing my observations on the provided photograph:
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Old 05-23-2014, 02:56 PM #65
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nice avatar...lol
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:03 PM #66
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Well...
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nice avatar...lol
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:22 PM #67
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I was basing my observations on the provided photograph:

yeah I did point it out earlier to him but it was on the other thread
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Old 05-23-2014, 03:25 PM #68
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Rosa- I ran my nt11 on 10ms since I got it. This was per DYEs advice as 9ms was giving me intermittent shooting problems "click" but no fire

Sometimes with a new spool spring you need 1ms more to overcome that spring tension. I never went back to 9ms as its running perfect as it is.
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:33 PM #69
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I just did some reference tests this weekend so I dont have much updates for now.
I have plans to make some new mods. It involves some machining of new parts so this will take a while to get right.
One of the changes involves the accelleration of the bolt.
The other change is speed and force change.
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Old 05-26-2014, 04:48 PM #70
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Thanks for the update
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:59 AM #71
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ok got another idea.
what if Rosa, you could make a delrin bolt tip. it could clip in the oring tip slot. but maybe have a ridge on it like the oring so it will not have issues in the eyepipe. but also have the length added to the tip to close the gap to the ball. i know...lol super crazy to try to make.
or with your milling access. you could just make a new bolt with same specs as factory but with added length.
or a flat faced bolt.
it sounds like with most people trying the oring mod and other attempts to help reduce breakage. the air pressure is the least of issues. it seems like the point of impact to me.
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:16 PM #72
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I think I understand what you are thinking. This is not on my list to change for the moment.
What I have found is that reely brittle balls can have issues even if they are in contact with the bolt and no ball is standing on top. The only things that can be a factor in these breaks are accelleration, preassure over area and if the speed is to high when passing the detents.
I will focus on these areas the next couple of days to figure out a way to reduce the forces acting on the paintball.

If you want a delrin tip, I belive you could by the one for MacDev Clone GTI?
Sadly I do not think it will help verry much against breaking paint in the NT...

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ok got another idea.
what if Rosa, you could make a delrin bolt tip. it could clip in the oring tip slot. but maybe have a ridge on it like the oring so it will not have issues in the eyepipe. but also have the length added to the tip to close the gap to the ball. i know...lol super crazy to try to make.
or with your milling access. you could just make a new bolt with same specs as factory but with added length.
or a flat faced bolt.
it sounds like with most people trying the oring mod and other attempts to help reduce breakage. the air pressure is the least of issues. it seems like the point of impact to me.
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:21 PM #73
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IDK how much work you're willing to put in, but like someone earlier said, the first half of the bolt movement should be slower than the second. If you can machine a new bolt with a longer tail section and a new bolt guide (might need to redesign every part if the new bolt guide is too weak) to accommodate the longer bolt so that more of the bolt's cycle is "slow."

I don't own an NT, so I don't know what the "bolt guide" is called (I'm more familiar with Shockers), but it's the part that's threaded in front and back and has a piece that goes inside the bolt and also contains the spool.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:35 PM #74
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It is possible to make the back part of the bolt longer whith some minor adjustments of the plunger.
Only about 4mm longer is without a lot of work.
I am preparing two new moded parts but I want to make som more calculations before taking the time to make these.
This needs the engineers aproach to get right.

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IDK how much work you're willing to put in, but like someone earlier said, the first half of the bolt movement should be slower than the second. If you can machine a new bolt with a longer tail section and a new bolt guide (might need to redesign every part if the new bolt guide is too weak) to accommodate the longer bolt so that more of the bolt's cycle is "slow."

I don't own an NT, so I don't know what the "bolt guide" is called (I'm more familiar with Shockers), but it's the part that's threaded in front and back and has a piece that goes inside the bolt and also contains the spool.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:52 PM #75
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I am not ready to desetroy any of my NT:s but I think I should make a mule to put the bolt in and make an see through barrel to se what happens during the firing cycle.
A polycarbonate tube will have to do with a little machining.

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Old 06-03-2014, 12:48 AM #76
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sounds intriguing
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:41 PM #77
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Tried some brittle paint yesterday. And as suspected it broke ever 5:t ball. At home I remover the eyepipe and looked down inside the body. I hav done this before and I se that the rubber eyeholder soes not sitt symetricaly. It sticks out more on the left side looking from the barrel end. I removed the eyeholder and the rubber is one of the preblems. There just aint enough room to let the detents move freely. I am not sure if the bolt speed is the differance between working and not working but since the system is the same on DM I think maybe boltspeed and the fact that the detents cant fold in to make a flush pipe is an big issue. Can you se that the rubber sticks out more on the side whith the red line? The breach is to the right... The cuts wherer the barrel screws in are vissible. When i place a ball in the breach the detents stick out a bit more than the width of the step on the eyepipe. The indentation on the rubber (hole) is not aligned with the round detent but its a bit more forward to give place for the arm to bend out. This does'nt seem to be enough on my NT. If i hold the parts together and try to push an alen key round the orifice the detent is not retracted enough to make the bore of the eyepipe smooth. The detent sticks out. The last image is of the rubber i have removed some material from to give the small arm of the detent some room to make sure the detent can fold away and out of the pipe.

I may be a little late replying but have you tried filing down the outside of the detents to allow the inside to become more flush as the ball then bolt pass through? Just a thought! I'm on page 3 reading I'll keep going
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:10 AM #78
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On one of my NT:s this prcocess has hapened all by itself...
I dont realy think that the detents are responsible for much problems more than that the will damage your bolt if you fire without the barrel attached and the bolt oring pulls the eypipe with it. I have tested without detents and problem is still there. (fireing uppwards with one ball at a time still breaks some paint.
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I may be a little late replying but have you tried filing down the outside of the detents to allow the inside to become more flush as the ball then bolt pass through? Just a thought! I'm on page 3 reading I'll keep going
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:47 PM #79
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The latest days I have ordered polycarbonate pipe to use as a see through barrel on my test rigg. I have also found a new potential issue that may well be the biggest issue of the NT design. The test bed will show if this is the case or not.
Maybee there is more info and thaugths in this post than meets the eye...
The issue I am thinking of is the trasition betwen the two stages of bolt movement. If the transition between the two stages is'nt perfectly timed the bolt may actualy not increase in acceleration the whole strole. If there is a break in acceleration, the ball might loose contact with the bolt and roll away from it. Only to then be caught by the second stage with increased speed. If this happens there is great chans of barrelbreaks as we are quite comon to see. The first stage of bolt stroke is actualy werry gentle on paint

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Old 06-11-2014, 11:45 PM #80
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Or can say that the hole the air comes out of is small and pin points a lot of the pressure of to the same in a single spot. Try putting a ball In sideways meaning the half shell or line. Is facing the bolt and see if it's more likely to break vs the line on the shell facing the eyes.... That's another thought.... The paint might be the most brittle at the connections... Where the two shells join????? Just tossing my thoughts out there
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:08 PM #81
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The small diameter and brittle paint is one thing I have tested. I have one bolt with removed bolt insert and the bolt rests on a bumper o-ring on the back of the plunger. This did nothing to relieve breakage. This is why i think this does have an effect but not that much given the diameter of the NT. Look at the AXE as a reference. It also have a small diameter like the NT and about 40 psi higher pressure and is not as hard on paint as the NT.

How the ball lies in the breach may also have some part of breaking. When I tested this it was not conclusive. Also when dropping balls they often crack as far from the seam as possible and the crack often go down to the seam and then cross the seam. someone should film this with high speed camera.
This may also vary with diferent brands.

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Or can say that the hole the air comes out of is small and pin points a lot of the pressure of to the same in a single spot. Try putting a ball In sideways meaning the half shell or line. Is facing the bolt and see if it's more likely to break vs the line on the shell facing the eyes.... That's another thought.... The paint might be the most brittle at the connections... Where the two shells join????? Just tossing my thoughts out there

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:06 PM #82
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:-( I'm trying to help... I'll keep thinking! NT11 for life!
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:34 AM #83
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Not my intention to bring down on anyone. You might be right that this might be tha case for some paint. The brands I have tested did not split in the seam and the cracks crossed the seam in a 45-90 degree angle.
It may be coinsidense that the 5 balls i dropped did not break along the seam butt I think that if the seam vas a weak spot, all of them should have broke along the seam.

I have seen bad batches of brand paints that leak glycerol through the seam and these did break very easy. They just might split in the seam if they where droptested... See next post, one actually broke along the seam. This is RPS Premium and it breaks from waist height (around 85 cm). All star broke from a bit over head height (180 cm).




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:-( I'm trying to help... I'll keep thinking! NT11 for life!

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Old 06-13-2014, 11:10 AM #84
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