Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-14-2014, 04:00 PM #1
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
DYE NT random bolt mods

I have decided to make a thread of my own in which I will show some mods that I am testing to get my NT11 a bit gentler on paint. (I know some have no issues and some have more).
For now I own two NT10 and one NT11 and also a spare NT11 bolt.

LLast year I used the NT11 without problems for some time but it seemed to chop paint some times. I could not figure out why since looking in the breach of any of my DM:s did not give any answers. Also, shooting with the finger in the breach does not feel worse on the NT than the DM:s.

The first idea I had was to lower the pressure to se if it had any effect.
Increasing the diameter of the bolt insert from 8mm to 9mm increased velocity by 15-20 which lets you lower the valve pressure.

Next step for me was looking at other soft tips. The GEO 3 and AXE was purchased. After inspection the GEO is far to long to fit on NT:s compact bolt engine. The AXE tip was the easiest to start with and it requires only a little bit of machining to fit perfectly on the bolt. This i tested but still with insert and a choped of DYE NT tip to place the insert right.

Check out the DYE NT flat face bolt thread page 7- for more info on what I have tested the last couple of days.

In this thread I will add pictures of mods, reg pressure, dwell settings, bolt tips, shooting videos and more to show my findings.

excuse my spelling, I will correct any spelling mistakes tomorrow...
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 05-14-2014, 04:27 PM #2
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Some early mods, geting the AXE tip in place on one NT11 bolt.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/scyzz6otrd...73311145_n.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5e45f4z5c...94825197_n.jpg
Do any one see a weird looking ring thing in the background? What can that be? Answer is comming tomorrow.
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2014, 04:28 PM #3
THE MEANSTREAK
TEAM MEANSTREAK
 
THE MEANSTREAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wyowhere?
THE MEANSTREAK owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
THE MEANSTREAK owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
THE MEANSTREAK supports Team VICIOUS
THE MEANSTREAK has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
I like this!

I for one haven't had any problems with the three NT's that I have owned but anything that helps is cool
THE MEANSTREAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2014, 04:52 PM #4
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
I have only had issues with my NT11. And this have been when using very brittle paint. Like ultra evil or other paint that cracks from 2,5 feet high. This paint I would get a break every 5 balls.
With some changes I coulg get one break every 25 balls.
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2014, 05:13 PM #5
Paint_hore
PBN=SUA syndrome
 
Paint_hore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Annual Supporting Member
Paint_hore is a founding member
If the NT could shoot fragile tourney grade paint it would be the best marker ever produced.
__________________


Rediscover: "its good to see you didnt take any flying metal objects to your juggular." 13pbstar13: "I dont have tits bro" (true story)
Paint_hore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2014, 05:20 PM #6
IBleed Arbor
vtec just kicked in, yo!
 
IBleed Arbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Connecticut
IBleed Arbor plays in the PSP
IBleed Arbor owns a Planet Eclipse CSL
IBleed Arbor is reppin' sidebar 4 life
IBleed Arbor is Boss
IBleed Arbor supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paint_hore View Post
If the NT could shoot fragile tourney grade paint it would be the best marker ever produced.
Truth
IBleed Arbor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 02:27 PM #7
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
The weird looking ring in the picture was something i tested with good results.
What does it do? Well it does the same as the Eclipse ofset feedneck which is incorporated on all PE gunns. It stacks the second ball where I want it.
I can put this in the feedneck, rotate it to place the second ball to the side and slightly behind the first ball (seen from the bolt). This means that the second ball will help to push tha first ball in to the bolt face. Also it will be the curvature of the first ball that lifts the second ball and not the bolt which should help against clipping issues.

I did some quick machining just to test a theory I had that it would be good to stack the balls with more precission. It did actualy work. I cut the amounts of paint breakage by a factor 5. I also tried to machine the eyepipe a bit to be able to move the detents 0.5mm closer to the bolt. This did not seem to have any effect on breaking issues.

rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 02:39 PM #8
THE MEANSTREAK
TEAM MEANSTREAK
 
THE MEANSTREAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wyowhere?
THE MEANSTREAK owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
THE MEANSTREAK owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
THE MEANSTREAK supports Team VICIOUS
THE MEANSTREAK has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Sweet idea.....
THE MEANSTREAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 05:43 PM #9
Paint_hore
PBN=SUA syndrome
 
Paint_hore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Annual Supporting Member
Paint_hore is a founding member
What I love is that anything Ive ever thought of to solve the NT paint breaking issue is being done by rosa and we havent even talked lol Especially the PE offset feedneck and ball detents.....how did you know I was thinking it?!?!

Unfortunately I have no access to a CNC or lathe.

Keep up the work man!
__________________


Rediscover: "its good to see you didnt take any flying metal objects to your juggular." 13pbstar13: "I dont have tits bro" (true story)
Paint_hore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 06:29 PM #10
Hotrod95
Dorito Player
 
Hotrod95's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: U.S.A
Hotrod95 owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
Hotrod95 owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
Hotrod95 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Hotrod95 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
This is great! Keep it up.
__________________

B'WINGED DYE NT11, DYE ROTOR, CROSSFIRE 68 4500 with SLP REG

VOTE YES FOR A DYE NT FLAT FACE BOLT!
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4093643
Hotrod95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 07:05 PM #11
Blusylver
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paint_hore View Post
What I love is that anything Ive ever thought of to solve the NT paint breaking issue is being done by rosa and we havent even talked lol Especially the PE offset feedneck and ball detents.....how did you know I was thinking it?!?!

Unfortunately I have no access to a CNC or lathe.

Keep up the work man!
quit trying to make yourself sound smart.

I do like the idea of moving the eyes back a little, how is the feedneck spacer held in place?
__________________
GEAR BAG SALE
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3899747
Blusylver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 08:48 PM #12
Sdtension760
SDT
 
Sdtension760's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: So Cal
subbing!
__________________
‎(ノಥ益ಥ)ノ ┻━┻


SD

TENSION
5 BNIB PROTONS F/S
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...1#post81830881
Sdtension760 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 11:03 AM #13
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
I made a cylinder of aluminium, bigger in one end and smaler in the other. On the small side i could fit the eyepipe and having a threaded hole on the end i could secure the eypipe with a washer.
I put the thicker end in the hub of the lathe and could make the groove for the eyepipe wider. Then i took a round file to enlarde the holes slightly and the detents was secured by using a small circlip.

That is how I did, but it did not maka a big difference.
Since the general breach area works for the DM series I believe that the dimensions and spacing are not the problem on the NT.
In some I have noticed that the detents make a bit more resistance than other. It may be problems with the rubber assembly thing for the eyes causing these problems.

I think in some rare cases the detents might cause cracking of brittle balls as due to the bolt speed. I am waiting for an approval at work to purchase a new high speed camera ( phantom miro 310) which I want to use to measure bolt speed of DM, NT, PMR and EGO to make som comparisson.

I might try to make som isolated tests to get some mor info on how balls crack... no pun intended.


Have you guys any other ideas?
I hade som ideas of how to use the GEO3 soft bolt tip but it is verry tricky and involves moving the bolt back, shortening plunger rod and using revere airflow through the solenoid. It will also only work on NT10 because of the diference in machining of the NT11 valve and back cap. ( Bakc cap is narrower on the sealing surface) machining on the inside of the NT11 valve part is also horribly unsmoth...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blusylver View Post
quit trying to make yourself sound smart.

I do like the idea of moving the eyes back a little, how is the feedneck spacer held in place?
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 11:10 AM #14
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Sorry Blusylver I thought you ment the eyepipe mods I did.
The spacer is inserted in the feedneck, and the ring wich is split is about 0.2mm wider in diameter than the first step in the feedneck.
So it will not rotate unless using a little bit of force.
Also the hopper holds it in place so it cant move upwards.

I can take some more pictures on monday if you want to se more of it because I left it at work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosakatten View Post
I made a cylinder of aluminium, bigger in one end and smaler in the other. On the small side i could fit the eyepipe and having a threaded hole on the end i could secure the eypipe with a washer.
I put the thicker end in the hub of the lathe and could make the groove for the eyepipe wider. Then i took a round file to enlarde the holes slightly and the detents was secured by using a small circlip.

That is how I did, but it did not maka a big difference.
Since the general breach area works for the DM series I believe that the dimensions and spacing are not the problem on the NT.
In some I have noticed that the detents make a bit more resistance than other. It may be problems with the rubber assembly thing for the eyes causing these problems.

I think in some rare cases the detents might cause cracking of brittle balls as due to the bolt speed. I am waiting for an approval at work to purchase a new high speed camera ( phantom miro 310) which I want to use to measure bolt speed of DM, NT, PMR and EGO to make som comparisson.

I might try to make som isolated tests to get some mor info on how balls crack... no pun intended.


Have you guys any other ideas?
I hade som ideas of how to use the GEO3 soft bolt tip but it is verry tricky and involves moving the bolt back, shortening plunger rod and using revere airflow through the solenoid. It will also only work on NT10 because of the diference in machining of the NT11 valve and back cap. ( Bakc cap is narrower on the sealing surface) machining on the inside of the NT11 valve part is also horribly unsmoth...
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 11:28 AM #15
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Here is a little something I threw together today.



Did not have the time to make it as nice as I wanted but at least I get to test it. The hole in the plunger is now tapered with M4 threads, and the screw is drilled to alow for venting.
Maybee I should make a stopscrew with a plate on and drop it down on the inside of the plunger to make an spring tension adjuster... If the valve preassure is set to low, the spool should have problems moving as suposed.
A weaker spring might then be used and if the barrel is unscrewed a hex key can be used to ad some force on the spring when preassure is high...

BTW thank's for the positive feedback Paint_hore.

I also love the feel of the NT:s that is why I want to know why they are a bit il tempered at times.
I wish they dont give up the idea of the NT at DYE. They need the NT to compete with Eclipe GEO witch is very similar but a less complicated system.

Last edited by rosakatten : 05-16-2014 at 01:01 PM.
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 02:09 PM #16
the korean1
Team Carnage
 
the korean1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 205
Neat idea on adding a way to control the spool.

here's some thought. We say that the nt has a fast bolt speed . But imo it's really a smaller bolt travel than other spool markers. We know that the nt is a fast marker. But is the speed dictated from the spool.
Geos now days, luxes, etc...All have ways to slow the bolt down. Each has their own way, yes.
Think on this and see where it goes...
__________________
Misc items for sale!
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4000228
the korean1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 03:45 PM #17
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
The spool only affects timing. If the spool moves slower it will basicaly be the same as increasing dwell. It is just another solenoid controled by the small solenoid. Correct me if im wrong.
One way to control the speed in the first part of the forward cyckle should be the macroline and tape on the spool mod. its just that if you only decrease the volyme by ading spacer materail to the spool it will increase the speed of air transfer right? To make a better change would be restricting the airflow but how do you block the transferholes and make it adjustable?
Maybe if the spool diameter is increased enough it could work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the korean1 View Post
Neat idea on adding a way to control the spool.

here's some thought. We say that the nt has a fast bolt speed . But imo it's really a smaller bolt travel than other spool markers. We know that the nt is a fast marker. But is the speed dictated from the spool.
Geos now days, luxes, etc...All have ways to slow the bolt down. Each has their own way, yes.
Think on this and see where it goes...
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 04:06 PM #18
rosakatten
 
 
rosakatten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Changing the volume of the outer front part of the can would also be a way to control speed in the second step of the forward move. I will look in to this.
rosakatten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 04:08 PM #19
the korean1
Team Carnage
 
the korean1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 205
Yeah I was think on that by just adding orings just to take up volume.
__________________
Misc items for sale!
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4000228
the korean1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 04:15 PM #20
Paint_hore
PBN=SUA syndrome
 
Paint_hore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Annual Supporting Member
Paint_hore is a founding member
Its a balancing act with the spool spring. A softer spring allows for lower pressure but then if its too soft the bolt wont cycle properly.

I dont know if the spool is really the issue anyway. If you stick your finger in and fire the nt, the first half stroke is softer than the back half.

Gun runs at only 110 psi, so something odd is going on that causes breaks.
__________________


Rediscover: "its good to see you didnt take any flying metal objects to your juggular." 13pbstar13: "I dont have tits bro" (true story)
Paint_hore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 04:25 PM #21
the korean1
Team Carnage
 
the korean1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 205
Ph good thought.
In the nt animation the spool starts the bolt fwd cycle then the rear pressure hits it. Would just a screened filter in the rear where the spooled air stores. Be resistance enough to slow the bolt?
__________________
Misc items for sale!
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4000228
the korean1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump