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Old 04-15-2014, 03:21 AM #43
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There were some calls we disagreed with for sure, but at the end of the day, what is called on the field is what you have to live with. I entrust the NCPA will hire refs who understand what they are doing, if the NCPA wants to be successful and begin growing again that is the best option for them to keep players in.

Reffing is a bit harder a job then some think. You get blasted from all sides every point, and are expected to see every single thing that happens on the field. It is a tough job for them and mistakes will be made. You got to roll with the punches.

As I said, we had our small share of disagreements with the refs and hopefully this can be a factor the NCPA looks into at the end of the day and they ensure we get quality refs for both Race 2 and Xball, but the tournament is over and we have to start the grind for next year.

It was great to see all the college teams out there.


The one thing I ask is that the Pros practice with something besides a whistle on Sunday. That really messed with the Race 2 field which is right next to it. If it is a practice, they can easily yell go and be effective.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:03 PM #44
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Not to mention, the Blue Devils played a point against that same team later on, and they got a major penalty. The player that got assigned that major asked the ref to show him where he got shot. AND THE REF COULDN'T DO IT.
Thank you for the recognition. We also got a minor the prior point for a hit on the inside of a players visor line. He checked it, didn't recognize the inside hit, asked a ref to check him and pulled a minor. It sucks getting back to back penalties that sent us 1,500 miles back home.

Complaining cant and wont change the future. Just let the players play.

I am unhappy with our division turnout (MidWest North). We only played three events. How can we get seeded against the nation when our points are one tournament less? Also the second event was run perfectly considering it was 5 degrees out and should have been indoors, and the third event field wasn't even close to regulation. It was probably 80x100 (O'Hare Paintball). This is unnecessary when AirAssault and BrewCity are indoor with regulation size fields. Just put a little thought in advance when choosing fields considering the layouts are now premade.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:30 PM #45
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I reffed on the TV field and I promise you not one of our refs has any affiliation with central florida paintball. The majority of us ref pro, others have years of PSP officiating experience. We just enforced the rules without very much leniency, every call was justified with our head ref. I cannot speak for other fields simply because I don't know who was there, but for someone to say hometown refs are why UCF was is not a legitimate claim.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:54 PM #46
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I'm just gonna add this in as one last statement.

On our line (Milwaukee's second line) I wasn't aware of any of our players getting a penalty during the entire tournament and possibly even our other line as well although I wasn't able to watch all of their games.

Point being, learn how to play paintball good enough to the point where you're either completely clean or being shot off the field. There's no reason to take a ****ty mask shot and have to ask a ref whether you were hit or not. You should be playing in such a way that you know.

There was even one kid who apparently thought that ANY hit didn't count unless it was the size of a quarter...took a heater and just kept playing which got him a nice penalty as well. Its things like this that make you question what some of the players are complaining about.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:46 PM #47
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I thought the reffing was fair. Only complaint I would have was the the whole issue with multiple whistles. Personally I got pulled for going off the box after I heard a whistle on another field and I just thought that it could have definitely been prevented.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:49 PM #48
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I thought the reffing on both field 2 and 3 was fine. They were strict and stuck to their guns. They made the right calls in a much higher percentage of the time than the wrong call. The only complaint I had was some language from their mouths, but I have a pirate mouth myself and wasn't bothered by it (but can see why spectators would be).
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:57 PM #49
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Is there a clear rule about entering the wrong pit, and coaches crossing the 50 in Class A? Things like that seemed to be enforced very strictly on the webcast field, and basically just non-existent on Field 2 and 3 on Friday.
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:09 PM #50
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Is there a clear rule about entering the wrong pit, and coaches crossing the 50 in Class A? Things like that seemed to be enforced very strictly on the webcast field, and basically just non-existent on Field 2 and 3 on Friday.
There is supposed to be no coaching from pit side in Class AA. The spectator side of the field can yell all they want from anywhere along the spectator side of the field. Hence the non-existence of what you noted in your post.

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I thought the reffing was fair. Only complaint I would have was the the whole issue with multiple whistles. Personally I got pulled for going off the box after I heard a whistle on another field and I just thought that it could have definitely been prevented.
Maybe next year we can have a radio between the scorekeepers on the Class AA fields so that the scorekeepers can be sure of not blowing their whistles within 10 seconds of each other's fields point starts.

I personally asked the scorekeeper on Field 2 on Sunday to ask the pro practice field to stop using their whistle, and I didn't hear their whistle go off for the remainder of the day.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:12 PM #51
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I personally asked the scorekeeper on Field 2 on Sunday to ask the pro practice field to stop using their whistle, and I didn't hear their whistle go off for the remainder of the day.
Unfortunetly that was after we had to start a man down due to me being pulled :/

But yeah that would be nice if they could just clear that up for next year. I know on Saturday if that happened on field 3 the refs would reset the clock and the teams and do it over again. Didn't seem like that was the case on Sunday unfortunetly.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:18 PM #52
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If PSP reffing standards are so high, why don't you pay them as much as the PSP does?
We pay what we need to to get the referees we need. Our compensation also isn't done the same way PSP does their compensation either.

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And if you had so many refs to choose from, how did you still manage to get some that weren't PSP-certified, as you're implying?
Because there are plenty of good refs out there that haven't taken a PSP ref cert class recently.

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Why do you feel the need to threaten a college student with fines to get him to stop complaining?
I'm not. I'm pointing out the significance of the situation the person is complaining about. Out of hydro tanks are a BIG DEAL.


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I'd imagine you'd put your good refs on the single A field that's broadcasted so you don't have Matty Marshall pointing out the bad calls to the public.
Talented referees are spread out over all fields.



The reality is that we had the most experienced referee crew that we've had in as long as I can remember. If you weren't happy with these refs, I'm not sure there's much we can do to make you satisfied.


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Old 04-15-2014, 07:50 PM #53
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Just to reiterate what Chris said, getting a psp certification is only a piece of paper that's it.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:55 PM #54
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If the refs wanted to be picky about the rules, they should abide by all and not by a select few. The player should not be out of bounds if he is not out, and he should have hung the flag if he was still "active". Both of which he did not do. With no "active" players on the field or a flag hang, the game should have resulted in a tie, the 3rd point would have been played, and this entire conflict wouldn't have happened. The refs had time to correct the call that was made after we confronted them, but they didn't want to own up to their mistake. Unfair calls were being made several times throughout this event. If you want proof, read the other posts in this thread. Also, the refs didn't have to be rude when we confronted them, that was completely unnecessary.
True or false: You're upset that the refs didn't give you the point after you 'won' because you were cheating.
True or false: You would be okay with losing a point, or going no point, because you got shot by a dead player.

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True, but the opposite is true as well. A player knowing that he did not get shot and a ref pulls him out, is a bad call.
It's a good thing every player is honest with himself and the refs.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:00 PM #55
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My tank was taken also and it was one of the DXS tanks from 2006, well out of hydro I'm aware, but still in perfect condition and still a better tank than many of the new ones out there today. I'm a college kid that has to eat ramen noodles because I have no money and I cannot afford another tank-- I could have afforded to rehydro it, if given the chance... a penalty and holding the tank until after the event would have been sufficient. Last time I checked, there was no press release stating that you guys would be stealing our tanks if not in hydro this year. I thought the NCPA was supposed to help college kids play paintball? How does stealing our equipment because it is out of date fit into your business values? I've never seen this rule enforced in the way you guys handled it, and it is pretty obvious what is going on here between you and the tank manufacturers. Is a penalty and holding it until the event is over not enough?
Maybe they kept it because they want to re-hydro it for you before giving it back

it sucks to have your tank taken but it was for your safety and everyone else there and I do not think you disagree with that. not sure I agree with the $100 fine as the rules have it, that will not deter out of hydro tanks.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:37 AM #56
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There is supposed to be no coaching from pit side in Class AA. The spectator side of the field can yell all they want from anywhere along the spectator side of the field. Hence the non-existence of what you noted in your post.
I specified Class A in the post though. Class A was played on all three fields Friday, and those two things were not enforced the same on all three fields, which is why I bring it up.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:43 AM #57
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I'm not. I'm pointing out the significance of the situation the person is complaining about. Out of hydro tanks are a BIG DEAL.
I 1506% wholeheartedly agree with every fiber in my body.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:44 AM #58
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Raehl you got yourself a little storm here apparently, I do agree with a large percentage of people here that the refs on the Class AA fields seemed to be asleep or just not making the appropriate calls. If it was one or two teams complaining I would write it off as those teams being upset they gut caught on penalties or just not owning up to their faults, but that is not the case here.

There are a LOT of teams in this form that are saying they did not feel the reffing quality was there. It will not change how the standings ended for this year, but we ask that you please wake them up and take some steps to ensure that we are getting quality.

For many of these college teams, we shell out a lot of our own cash to get here. I am speaking for my team when we say we do not get much funding, but we have been at Nationals every year since our formation. Compared to universities like Florida Gulf Coast (Big love to them by the way, they really helped us out!) Liberty, UConn and a few others, we get jack from our university. Yet you continue to see ISU on the roster because we love our sport and college paintball is a great deal for us. We are not getting APPA points worth much to change our division, we are not getting prizes, and we have to spend the greater part of a year fundraising to get there, but we are there every year. 18 hour drive and all.

What I am saying is, it is on you to create a league in which we want to play. The amount of dedication, time, sweat, tears, money, and sometimes the sacrifice of grades, it would be disrespectful to not take in the comments of your league and make the needed implications to ensure the quality remains.

I can speak for the greater portion of the NCPA when I say Thank you for the work you put into the league. Without your efforts we would not have such an event where we can meet our peers in this sport and have an event that is solely about the passion of the sport.

We ask you just listen to us, as we want this league to grow and we want to make all we sacrifice to play in it worth it.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:26 PM #59
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My tank was taken also and it was one of the DXS tanks from 2006, well out of hydro I'm aware, but still in perfect condition and still a better tank than many of the new ones out there today. I'm a college kid that has to eat ramen noodles because I have no money and I cannot afford another tank-- I could have afforded to rehydro it, if given the chance... a penalty and holding the tank until after the event would have been sufficient. Last time I checked, there was no press release stating that you guys would be stealing our tanks if not in hydro this year. I thought the NCPA was supposed to help college kids play paintball? How does stealing our equipment because it is out of date fit into your business values? I've never seen this rule enforced in the way you guys handled it, and it is pretty obvious what is going on here between you and the tank manufacturers. Is a penalty and holding it until the event is over not enough?
Feel free to correct me if I've missed something here:

1. Prior to the event, you knew your tank was several years out of hydro.
2. Prior to the event, you could have afforded hydro testing and chose not to.
3. Prior to the event, you knew it was against the rules to use the tank.
4. During the event, you used the tank despite #1-3, and got caught.
5. After the event, you're upset that you were held accountable for #1-4.

Frankly, I'm disappointed that you weren't handed an APPA suspension on the spot. You knowingly violated league rules and federal law, endangered the lives of everyone on the field, and still don't feel that you did anything wrong.

What you don't seem to know about compressed air tanks is that every fill/empty cycle induces fatigue in the bottle. Hydro testing measures this fatigue and checks to see that your bottle is not exceeding the safe limits. If the limits have been exceeded, your tank is at risk of failure - the kind of failure that can injure or kill people. Despite what you may think, this is not a joke, a petty rule, or something to be taken lightly. You put lives at risk because you couldn't be bothered to spend $20 on a simple safety check. That's selfish, immature, and disrespectful to every person attending the event. Get your **** together.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:32 PM #60
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The one thing I ask is that the Pros practice with something besides a whistle on Sunday. That really messed with the Race 2 field which is right next to it. If it is a practice, they can easily yell go and be effective.
Did you bring this to anyone's attention at the time? I sure would've had them stop had I been made aware of it.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:41 PM #61
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Feel free to correct me if I've missed something here:

1. Prior to the event, you knew your tank was several years out of hydro.
2. Prior to the event, you could have afforded hydro testing and chose not to.
3. Prior to the event, you knew it was against the rules to use the tank.
4. During the event, you used the tank despite #1-3, and got caught.
5. After the event, you're upset that you were held accountable for #1-4.

Frankly, I'm disappointed that you weren't handed an APPA suspension on the spot. You knowingly violated league rules and federal law, endangered the lives of everyone on the field, and still don't feel that you did anything wrong.

What you don't seem to know about compressed air tanks is that every fill/empty cycle induces fatigue in the bottle. Hydro testing measures this fatigue and checks to see that your bottle is not exceeding the safe limits. If the limits have been exceeded, your tank is at risk of failure - the kind of failure that can injure or kill people. Despite what you may think, this is not a joke, a petty rule, or something to be taken lightly. You put lives at risk because you couldn't be bothered to spend $20 on a simple safety check. That's selfish, immature, and disrespectful to every person attending the event. Get your **** together.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:49 PM #62
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Did you bring this to anyone's attention at the time? I sure would've had them stop had I been made aware of it.
I made Traci (scorekeeper on Field 2) aware of it after a slip-up during the second point of the Drexel/ISU Top 16 match (a point where despite us winning, we both lost a body off the break as a result). I didn't hear the whistle again from the practice field for the rest of the time that Drexel was there (we were eliminated the next round by UNT). I was happy that my simple request seemed to be taken care of.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:03 PM #63
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Feel free to correct me if I've missed something here:

1. Prior to the event, you knew your tank was several years out of hydro.
2. Prior to the event, you could have afforded hydro testing and chose not to.
3. Prior to the event, you knew it was against the rules to use the tank.
4. During the event, you used the tank despite #1-3, and got caught.
5. After the event, you're upset that you were held accountable for #1-4.

Frankly, I'm disappointed that you weren't handed an APPA suspension on the spot. You knowingly violated league rules and federal law, endangered the lives of everyone on the field, and still don't feel that you did anything wrong.

What you don't seem to know about compressed air tanks is that every fill/empty cycle induces fatigue in the bottle. Hydro testing measures this fatigue and checks to see that your bottle is not exceeding the safe limits. If the limits have been exceeded, your tank is at risk of failure - the kind of failure that can injure or kill people. Despite what you may think, this is not a joke, a petty rule, or something to be taken lightly. You put lives at risk because you couldn't be bothered to spend $20 on a simple safety check. That's selfish, immature, and disrespectful to every person attending the event. Get your **** together.
Where do you get off using simple logic, a basic comprehension of the rules and a general regard for safety.
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