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Old 04-13-2014, 01:32 AM #64
RedDotPaintball
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike838 View Post
A fix to a field who needs a longer battery life. Either the creators could sell a larger battery option (the battery sits inside anyway so it won't be in the way) or if the field owner has the know how and can find batteries that have the required voltage and amperage of the fan boxes and could hook up their own battery source for additional battery life (although both these options cost more $).

My only concern is the access port for the fan box. What safety systems are in place for when someone shoots the mesh possibly at point blank? What stops small bits of shell, paint and dirt from going into the fan blades and motor?

1. First you can put tandem batteries in a bunker it you wish. I.E. Double, Triple or Quadruple your time. Batteries can be interlocked if you wish.

2. The fan is removable and washable (of course keeping water from the electronic portion) but the blades can easily be cleaned. The mesh guard can be washed. The fan would pull through any shell debris. The entire bunker is machine washable. The replacement fan in worst case scenario is $18.00.

3. In reality you have a similar problem with the inlet for any vinyl bunker. It could get damaged. They rarely do. But it could happen.
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:52 AM #65
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Shapes

Any chance of Custom Shapes?
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:21 AM #66
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Wow that was a quick reply. Awesome to know that fields who are worried about battery life know now that you guys intentionally set it up so they could hook up multiple batteries at once.

Nice to know that you made the fan so cheap to replace if need be.

One thing I am a little fuzzy on, does the fan box continuously run once connected to the battery?
If it does, a decent upgrade would be a shut off system once a certain pressure was reached inside the bunker. This would be very helpful for bunkers no one shoots at or between games when no one is shooting at the bunkers or leaning into them in order to extend battery life (kinda like the remote system that is in the works but would suite the needs of the individual bunker and not the whole field). Although, depending on how air tight these bunkers are, it may be pointless due to the motor starting and stopping every 20 seconds.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:48 AM #67
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I remember these when bunkers went from having the big white air lines that everyone tripped on to putting the fans inside of the bunkers.

How do these hold up to rainy and windy conditions?
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:47 PM #68
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Any chance of Custom Shapes?
Yes it is possible dependent on idea and design. Again shapes need to be tested for airflow and material construction. While it is possible, we do want to focus on getting traditional sets on the field first. Collaboration on custom shapes is desired as we want to add shapes that many field owners could benefit from.

This is also a conversation better suited for a phone call. Call me at 509-967-3030 at the shop next week to discuss your ideas.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:57 PM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike838 View Post
Wow that was a quick reply. Awesome to know that fields who are worried about battery life know now that you guys intentionally set it up so they could hook up multiple batteries at once.

Nice to know that you made the fan so cheap to replace if need be.

One thing I am a little fuzzy on, does the fan box continuously run once connected to the battery?
If it does, a decent upgrade would be a shut off system once a certain pressure was reached inside the bunker. This would be very helpful for bunkers no one shoots at or between games when no one is shooting at the bunkers or leaning into them in order to extend battery life (kinda like the remote system that is in the works but would suite the needs of the individual bunker and not the whole field). Although, depending on how air tight these bunkers are, it may be pointless due to the motor starting and stopping every 20 seconds.
Great thought Mike, however, if you watch the video posted, the uniqueness of these bunkers is in the cloth. The fiber is just loose enough to allow constant air escaping. The fan needs to continuously run to keep it inflated. This is the magic in letting the paintballs not break on the bunkers themselves. Again, the fan technology is far past 10 years ago. They are energy efficient and do not drain the batteries much. Also it is the magic in take down especially for mobile operations. When the battery is disconnected, the bunker deflates in seconds and can be folded up for storage very rapidly.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:59 PM #70
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Originally Posted by juggernaught_lives View Post
I remember these when bunkers went from having the big white air lines that everyone tripped on to putting the fans inside of the bunkers.

How do these hold up to rainy and windy conditions?
We have a lot of wind at our field. However, one's idea of wind and rain may not be the same as another. We have learned that field owners have their own unique conditions. Again, feel free to arrange a demo bunker with us. Also call us for a good discussion 509-967-3030.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:14 PM #71
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how noisy is the fan?
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:04 PM #72
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how noisy is the fan?
Nothing. Paintball shots far overshadow any noise from the fans. Also all fan boxes are inside the bunker and sound dissipated through the 130+ cfm of air flowing through the bunker.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:24 PM #73
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Aw well that takes out the pressure shut off. Thank you for the detailed responces to everyone's questions.

These bunkers seem to take the cake for indoor fields and also hold their own outdoors.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:44 PM #74
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Have played on and set up Vortex bunkers before. Great product!
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:37 PM #75
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Perhaps need another baller to help out in the bunker business later on this year when I move?

I cant express enough how awesome it is to see this product back. I remember when they first came out and Andy? ( I think his name was) first showed them. He brought em out dor a event for a tourny my field was hosting as we didnt have a airball field.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:16 PM #76
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Perhaps need another baller to help out in the bunker business later on this year when I move?

I cant express enough how awesome it is to see this product back. I remember when they first came out and Andy? ( I think his name was) first showed them. He brought em out dor a event for a tourny my field was hosting as we didnt have a airball field.
Where are you moving to? Andrew is correct.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:30 AM #77
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Another concern I remember from back in the day is positioning. You have to always make sure the fan is not pointing along the length of the field or the fan will get shot and broken pretty quick. Then you have to make sure the fan is at ground level to keep it safe and the bunker inflated properly. Doesn't seem like a chore until you make a field out of a bunch of them then it's tough to keep the fans in a safe position.

Add to that renters are going to want to shoot the fans when you're not looking and it's still going to be a problem. Honestly, as a field owner you want low maintenance and durability. The durability factor was rarely an issue in the past since there is no air tight seal on the bunkers which I always loved. They absorb impact very well too(accept for the fan which does not), which means few rips from actual shooting. It was maintenance. Charging batteries takes time, replacing batteries takes time, it also takes a power supply which a lot of rural operations may not have, and it's an added cost on the electrical bill. Add all that in and who can say if it's really a cost savings to the owners. Time will tell. I'd like to see it work but at this point I'm still on the fence. It's all about the numbers.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:37 AM #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrKey View Post
Another concern I remember from back in the day is positioning. You have to always make sure the fan is not pointing along the length of the field or the fan will get shot and broken pretty quick. Then you have to make sure the fan is at ground level to keep it safe and the bunker inflated properly. Doesn't seem like a chore until you make a field out of a bunch of them then it's tough to keep the fans in a safe position.

Add to that renters are going to want to shoot the fans when you're not looking and it's still going to be a problem. Honestly, as a field owner you want low maintenance and durability. The durability factor was rarely an issue in the past since there is no air tight seal on the bunkers which I always loved. They absorb impact very well too(accept for the fan which does not), which means few rips from actual shooting. It was maintenance. Charging batteries takes time, replacing batteries takes time, it also takes a power supply which a lot of rural operations may not have, and it's an added cost on the electrical bill. Add all that in and who can say if it's really a cost savings to the owners. Time will tell. I'd like to see it work but at this point I'm still on the fence. It's all about the numbers.
Thanks for your feedback. We would respectfully comment as such.
The fan guard mesh is very durable. They do not get shot out. We have not had one shot out in 3 years of operation. The velcro is sealed from the outside in, meaning the seal is on the bunker side. The paintballs hitting the mesh are pushing in toward the bunker. The only way the Mesh Guard would be shot out is if it were torn or completely worn out to begin with prior to inflating the bunker. Replacement mesh guards are very inexpensive.

The comment about your electrical bill is not valid. Assuming you are using either electrical blowers or fuel. In either case the amount of energy consumed to inflate and re-inflate bunkers each day is no where near the cost of a trickle charge on a wall charger. In fact this is additional savings that we do not even talk about in our cost savings for the owners. If you do not have power at your facility than that is one of the main benefits of being able to go from fuel to batteries and save a lot of money each year. One person would have to take the batteries home each weekend to ensure they are ready for the next.

Maintenance is another issue. Unless you replace your vinyl bunkers every year or every other year, you will spend countless hours maintaining, patching, fixing Vinyl bunkers. Again these savings are not put forward because not every field keeps their bunkers until they are in that patching phase. We are in a very hot climate. I can only tell you that I cannot keep vinyl bunkers from scaling after year 1. From that point our field staff have to continually patch bunkers. It is a nightmare.

As far as your renters shooting out the fans. Well what can I say here, we include bunker shooting as part of our briefing and that it can end your day if you are shooting at bunkers during non-game times. This applies to vinyl or Vortex. If you let players shoot your vinyl bunkers from point blank when they are not playing, you will be replacing bunkers far more often then you should. A bad hole or tear in a vinyl bunker makes it useless. If we lose a Vortex fan guard to a renter as you suggest, something around $10.00 would fix it. Our experience is players want good bunkers. They do not want to be malicious and wreck the bunkers as it does nothing for playing on a nice field.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:36 PM #79
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I have to assume that you are not walking around putting the bunkers in a lake. So if you are referring to a puddle forming around a bunker in heavy rain, the bottom is also material. It will keep water out for some time and the fan box is not on the ground (it is raised a couple inches. So the fan will operate. The battery should be moved off the ground if the bunker would be sitting in water. If you are a field owner, I would encourage you to arrange a demo bunker and this way you can try with your exact normal conditions.
Yeah that is what I meant. I was just curious about operation in rain/wet conditions. I saw the video though, it anwsers my questions. This is a pretty neat idea.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:42 PM #80
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Those appear to be 12v 7Ah sealed gel acid batteries and like mentioned the more frequent the discharge/ the level of discharge will affect the battery life. Also as mentioned you could put X amount in parallel and increase your amperage. You should incorporate discharge meter that turns the fan off at a set voltage.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:07 PM #81
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charge at night when electricity costs less.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:52 PM #82
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Those appear to be 12v 7Ah sealed gel acid batteries and like mentioned the more frequent the discharge/ the level of discharge will affect the battery life. Also as mentioned you could put X amount in parallel and increase your amperage. You should incorporate discharge meter that turns the fan off at a set voltage.
The minute you turn off the fan, the bunker deflates. That is why take down and clean up is so fast. The batteries will last 3 years or more. Our chargers are trickle chargers. They are not Gel Acid. They are Sealed Lead Acid batteries.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:15 AM #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDotPaintball View Post
Thanks for your feedback. We would respectfully comment as such.
The fan guard mesh is very durable. They do not get shot out. We have not had one shot out in 3 years of operation. The velcro is sealed from the outside in, meaning the seal is on the bunker side. The paintballs hitting the mesh are pushing in toward the bunker. The only way the Mesh Guard would be shot out is if it were torn or completely worn out to begin with prior to inflating the bunker. Replacement mesh guards are very inexpensive.


The comment about your electrical bill is not valid. Assuming you are using either electrical blowers or fuel. In either case the amount of energy consumed to inflate and re-inflate bunkers each day is no where near the cost of a trickle charge on a wall charger. In fact this is additional savings that we do not even talk about in our cost savings for the owners. If you do not have power at your facility than that is one of the main benefits of being able to go from fuel to batteries and save a lot of money each year. One person would have to take the batteries home each weekend to ensure they are ready for the next.

Maintenance is another issue. Unless you replace your vinyl bunkers every year or every other year, you will spend countless hours maintaining, patching, fixing Vinyl bunkers. Again these savings are not put forward because not every field keeps their bunkers until they are in that patching phase. We are in a very hot climate. I can only tell you that I cannot keep vinyl bunkers from scaling after year 1. From that point our field staff have to continually patch bunkers. It is a nightmare.

As far as your renters shooting out the fans. Well what can I say here, we include bunker shooting as part of our briefing and that it can end your day if you are shooting at bunkers during non-game times. This applies to vinyl or Vortex. If you let players shoot your vinyl bunkers from point blank when they are not playing, you will be replacing bunkers far more often then you should. A bad hole or tear in a vinyl bunker makes it useless. If we lose a Vortex fan guard to a renter as you suggest, something around $10.00 would fix it. Our experience is players want good bunkers. They do not want to be malicious and wreck the bunkers as it does nothing for playing on a nice field.

If you have a durable guard over the fans, that can actually stand up to the constant abuse in "hot spots" then all the power to you. My comments are based on the older style vortex bunkers, as obviously I haven't seen the new ones. Props to you if you solved this problem, but I'm highly skeptical your mesh is going to be sufficient over a long term.

You're probably right that the cost of charging batteries is cheaper than buying fuel, I'll give you that. Having to bring the batteries home and charge them every night is time and labor which is a pain if you don't have power on site. Having to replace batteries may also be a concern as their lifespan dies over time. I'm only concerned about this because in the past most large scale battery systems of any kind have only let me down. Not just paintball related systems. I guess that's more of a warranty issue than anything.

Honestly, I do wish you guys success. I think there are a lot of small field owners out there who have just gotten away from inflatables period(none within 3 hours of me) because they cost a lot and keep on costing a lot. If your new system can be affordable, low cost and low maintenance then you'll do well.
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Old 04-18-2014, 04:00 PM #84
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That field looks like so much fun in the picture haha
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