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Old 02-27-2014, 01:35 PM #1
bcrguy
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Threshold not firing

hey guys I'm having issues with my threshold again. heres what iv done/is going on:

-tried 2 different noids (both click fine)
-air gets to the bolt no problem (bolt get sucked back from forward position when aired up).
-battery is good
-dwell at 18
-ABS setting at 8
-HPR is almost full out, it was about halfway in but nothing so i turned it 1/4 turn out at a time. no change.

at this point I'm just wanting it to cycle, i did put new shims int he reg awhile back so maybe those are just stiff still? idk.

edit: ok replaced an oring that upon close examination was thicker then what was supposed to be in there. brought abs down to 5 and dwell to 16, cycles alright now.

thanks.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:09 PM #2
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Is the marker overpressurized by chance? Do you get small puffs of air from the gripframe/trigger area when trying to cycle the bolt?

Start with the velocity adjustment screw all the way in and slowly turn it out while aired up and pulling the trigger.

Also be sure that you are using the correct type and amount of lube (just a little is needed) and that the correct locations/O-rings are lubed.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:19 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
Is the marker overpressurized by chance? Do you get small puffs of air from the gripframe/trigger area when trying to cycle the bolt?

Start with the velocity adjustment screw all the way in and slowly turn it out while aired up and pulling the trigger.

Also be sure that you are using the correct type and amount of lube (just a little is needed) and that the correct locations/O-rings are lubed.

no puffs from anywhere,

tried that before, but il try it again.

I'm using just a little bit of lurker lube on the bolt sail oring.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:59 PM #4
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Originally Posted by bcrguy View Post
no puffs from anywhere,

tried that before, but il try it again.

I'm using just a little bit of lurker lube on the bolt sail oring.
You should be lubing the front section of the bolt (between the front tip o-ring and bumper o-ring), the sail o-ring, the backcap stem o-ring, and inside the back of the bolt.

Along another possibility, have you serviced the solenoid yet? May want to open it up for a clean and relube of the noid piston.

Lastly, are you even getting air to the solenoid. Maybe unscrew the reg and adapter part (reassemble off the marker w/o the retaining screw) then apply air to see if you get air through the reg. Since you changed shims, are they in the correct orientation?
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:58 PM #5
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And make sure you got the shims back in the right way )()()()(
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:10 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
You should be lubing the front section of the bolt (between the front tip o-ring and bumper o-ring), the sail o-ring, the backcap stem o-ring, and inside the back of the bolt.

Along another possibility, have you serviced the solenoid yet? May want to open it up for a clean and relube of the noid piston.

Lastly, are you even getting air to the solenoid. Maybe unscrew the reg and adapter part (reassemble off the marker w/o the retaining screw) then apply air to see if you get air through the reg. Since you changed shims, are they in the correct orientation?
the bolt assembly is all lubed up fine

noid has been serviced and is fine

air gets into the noid ok. and shims are in correctly.(see below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteGargoyle View Post
And make sure you got the shims back in the right way )()()()(
shims are all in the right way.


ok i was able to get it cycling today, (zeroed out the reg brought it up until bolt went back) it cycled ok but if left alone (board off, and aired up) for a couple minutes it would not fire anymore. sometimes it would start going again after a few shots, others i have to bump up the pressure then back it down again to get it to cycle.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:25 AM #7
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Hmmmmmm........and no leaks - not even a vary faint one?

May also want to check strange.things like the trigger adjustment points to be sure your set points aren't too close to the board activation point.

Speaking of the board, your ABS is at 8 or 10? FAR, FAR too high, IMO. ABS shouldn't need to be more that 1 or 2 at most. Also, what board is it? With ABS that high, it doesn't sound like a stock one.

I'm also wondering if it may be your marker's breach o-ring giving you issues. The one behind the feedneck.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:57 AM #8
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I was going to suggest resetting the board to stock and see if that works. I have messed with the wrong setting on mine before and resetting it made it good to go.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:32 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
Hmmmmmm........and no leaks - not even a vary faint one?

May also want to check strange.things like the trigger adjustment points to be sure your set points aren't too close to the board activation point.

Speaking of the board, your ABS is at 8 or 10? FAR, FAR too high, IMO. ABS shouldn't need to be more that 1 or 2 at most. Also, what board is it? With ABS that high, it doesn't sound like a stock one.

I'm also wondering if it may be your marker's breach o-ring giving you issues. The one behind the feedneck.
slight leak out of the macro line that stops when the line is moved, dosent come back as long as it stays aired up. no leaks from bolt assembly.

its an APE board, so your saying i should back it down to 1 or 2 then? it wasn't cycling before when i had it that low but il start at zero and go from there.

all the internal o-rings looked ok but il tear it down and get a better look tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteGargoyle View Post
I was going to suggest resetting the board to stock and see if that works. I have messed with the wrong setting on mine before and resetting it made it good to go.
iv gone through before and put at the settings to stock value and no change, i even put the stock board back in with all the stock settings and no change either.
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Last edited by bcrguy : 02-28-2014 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:44 PM #10
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Originally Posted by bcrguy View Post
slight leak out of the macro line that stops when the line is moved, dosent come back as long as it stays aired up. no leaks from bolt assembly.

its an APE board, so your saying i should back it down to 1 or 2 then? it wasn't cycling before when i had it that low but il start at zero and go from there.

all the internal o-rings looked ok but il tear it down and get a better look tonight.



iv gone through before and put at the settings to stock value and no change, i even put the stock board back in with all the stock settings and no change either.
Yes, your ABS shouldn't be that high. All the ABS setting does is bump up the solenoid dwell on the first shot (after an X amount of time at rest) by whatever setpoint you added. So with an ABS of 10 and a solenoid dwell of 18 (which is also too high, IMO - shoot for 12 or 14 at most), the first shot would have a solenoid dwell of 28.

How easily does the bolt move in and out of the breach - take the backcap off and slide it in and out with your finger (<------ yup, TWSS comment). Also, how easily does the bolt move on and off the backcap stem?
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:15 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
Yes, your ABS shouldn't be that high. All the ABS setting does is bump up the solenoid dwell on the first shot (after an X amount of time at rest) by whatever setpoint you added. So with an ABS of 10 and a solenoid dwell of 18 (which is also too high, IMO - shoot for 12 or 14 at most), the first shot would have a solenoid dwell of 28.

How easily does the bolt move in and out of the breach - take the backcap off and slide it in and out with your finger (<------ yup, TWSS comment). Also, how easily does the bolt move on and off the backcap stem?
bolt moves in and out of the breech with almost no resistance. bolt fits on the back cap with a little resistance but will move with a little force.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:41 PM #12
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ok so i replaced the o-ring on the back cap, the one that was on there was a little thick, and i re-programmed the board to 16ms of dwell and 5ms ABS. I'm not sure what pressure the reg is set at but i started with it zeroed out with the bolt forward in the gun and stopped as soon as the bolt got sucked back. it puffs once or twice then cycles fine. if i lower the abs to 1 (minimum on the ape board) it puffs 3 or 4 times before it cycles. also the ABS reset is 10 seconds (stock setting on ape board).
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:20 PM #13
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The only things I can think of at this point are the sail o-ring on the bolt and the breach o-ring. Your settings now are within reason, IMO. I also think that when you mentioned your ABS was at 8 or 10, it was probably at setting 8, which is ABS off.

Assuming you have no leaks that you can hear, serviced the solenoid, have a good battery, and lubing correctly, I think it is probably the sail o-ring. Just be sure you are also using the correct size o-rings for that backcap one you just replaced and for the sail (3rd from tip).
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:37 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
The only things I can think of at this point are the sail o-ring on the bolt and the breach o-ring. Your settings now are within reason, IMO. I also think that when you mentioned your ABS was at 8 or 10, it was probably at setting 8, which is ABS off.

Assuming you have no leaks that you can hear, serviced the solenoid, have a good battery, and lubing correctly, I think it is probably the sail o-ring. Just be sure you are also using the correct size o-rings for that backcap one you just replaced and for the sail (3rd from tip).
i didn't realize that ABS 8 = off. once i get the gun over a chrono ill see where i should go for settings. thanks CA.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:54 PM #15
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i didn't realize that ABS 8 = off. once i get the gun over a chrono ill see where i should go for settings. thanks CA.
Yup. No problem. Based on your last description, it sounds like you have a little bit of bolt stick going on - the puffs on trigger pulls, bolt doesn't move then starts cycling after a bit. I think you are close to getting it all worked out now.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:00 PM #16
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Dwell also shouldn't be anywhere near 18..13 is prime for a threshold
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:25 PM #17
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Dwell also shouldn't be anywhere near 18..13 is prime for a threshold
iv got it set to 16 right now and it cycles, once i get to the field i can fine tune.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:51 PM #18
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Ya I just got my L7 full engine and I am still having trouble myself. I think that you might have the same problem as me. I think that it needs the oring located near the breach inside the gun replaced and I am doing mine today. Also you might look into taking the gun completely apart and flushing the air passages to the regulator and solenoid on the body of the marker incase there is any stuborn dry lube caked in there.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:52 PM #19
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If you need I can take some pictures to point out the areas that need to be flushed and the process on how to do that.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:11 PM #20
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Ya I just got my L7 full engine and I am still having trouble myself. I think that you might have the same problem as me. I think that it needs the oring located near the breach inside the gun replaced and I am doing mine today. Also you might look into taking the gun completely apart and flushing the air passages to the regulator and solenoid on the body of the marker incase there is any stuborn dry lube caked in there.
I'm using the stock bolt engine not an L7, and I'm assuming by flushed you mean air up with no bolt assembly in therefore the air should go through the gun. iv already done that.

i believe i just had a wrong o-ring on the back cap as the one on there was a lot thicker then i think it should be. either way it seals and runs fine now.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:23 PM #21
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Good that its running just sucks that you have to run it at 16ms for dwell. When I say "flush" I mean dissasemble the gun and get a plastic syringe and put some rubbing alcohol in it and put it through one of the air passages to dry up any stubborn lube caked in there and let it sit to dry it out then fill your sink up with warm water and let the body set down in there then take your syringe and fill it with water and blast that B**** so anything in there comes out. Has worked for me in the past when purchasing used markers from folkes that said they couldnt get the gun working no matter what.
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