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Old 01-24-2014, 11:11 AM #43
Azonic2002
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So what is MacDev's MAP on a GTi? Because currently ANS has normal at $1499, "Sale" at $1099.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:20 AM #44
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The issue is this:

By ANS doing this below MAP they are leveraging their larger buying power (which reduces prices somewhat) in ways that smaller stores and companies cannot have access to. If MacDev authorizes a price drop or sale, all retailers have equal access.

I made two purchases through ANS Gear ever, both times I regretted it. The first time I bought a set of HK cleats, and when they arrived they were a size smaller than what I ordered. When I attempted to return, they would not compensate for shipping nor would they send out new ones without receiving the wrong ones.

The second time was a marker, huge mistake. Arrived damaged and wrong colour. When I called them they told me to take it up with the manufacturer.

Never again!
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:22 AM #45
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I don't get the ***** fit from consumers. If you want to support the little guy, what does an ANSgear sale matter? How does them slashing the price on anything affect you? You weren't buying there in the first place? Nobody is forcing you to spend money there. You are just as free to support a local or favorite other business as before. So why *****? If others don't share your desires and spend money in a different way, that's just as much their choice as you have yours.

All this talk about support the small Internet dealer like Aggressive. Why? What do I gain shopping through that Internet dealer, located multiple states away, rather than supporting ANSgear which is an Internet dealer multiple states away? Or trademygun.com, I've never met anyone from them. Sure they sponsor teams, but not me. Do I owe them business to sponsor others? So many of today's purchases are from a nameless faceless website, and in this hobby, if you buy from the largest you are automatically an *******. Its just hate for the big guy when many of the people speaking are working for the little guy. What if I care more about the cost and less about Customer Service? What if I can tech the marker on my own, should I have to pay extra for customer service or is a less expensive option with less service a better value for myself?

And let's not start in on the Local store front. I have none, not within an hours drive each way, and then I typically have to have them order parts or markers to get exactly what I want. A couple don't have a field to go with the store. Its all a joke for local dealers. If you live in an area loaded with good proshops and great fields more power to you. I don't. And to be forced into the mentality that the only good dollar spent in paintball is with your local store isn't appropriate. At that point, I shop for selection and price...which ANSgear does very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pote View Post
An "add to basket to see price" deal to avoid a MAP violation is a MAP violation with most manufacturers....Prices have to be posted up front and visible.
Not by the letter of the law, at least if you have to sign in to see the price. Lots of others do the same without issue in other fields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippin35 View Post
Im glad to see someone do something besides just *****ing about ANS. As to the point of the clone not being as popular, MD has never been a massive name but they do have a strong following. The GT/gti has def gotten out there more than most MD guns. Either way, its not the choice of the retailer as to what the gun is valued at. They agreed to terms with the initial contract and they clearly had MAP rules in it. Regardless of how well its selling, that's just a blatant undercut of the people you came to an agreement with and a douchebag move. Turns out not only does ANS not care about my order, they also don't seem to care about their partners.
The customer decides the value. Not the manufacturer or the dealer. If things don't sell, do you expect ANSgear or other retailers to sit on obsolete stock forever? A sale like this is typically to cut losses before they get worse. This isn't a $50 off coupon to slightly undercut everyone else. Its a 30% slash which really screams its a slow mover with big cost.

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Our industry wants to drive sales to local stores, where MAP isn't an issue, which is why these policies are in place, to deter huge online stores from ****ting on brick and mortar stores.
Our country drives on discount sales and basement bargain prices. Look at all the Walmarts, Costcos, Neweggs, and even fast food chains which all capitalize on bulk sales and low margins undercutting mom and pop stores. Yet when the bulk of the people in the paintball industry work for a smaller business now all of a sudden we care to the end about the little guy. How many of the people claiming we need to support the little guy avoid chain stores of all kinds in The rest of their life? If Walmart sold top tier paintball equipment the masses would buy from them at 10% off just like we see in mass with everything else in life.

For the record, I can't stand ANSgear. Not because of their size, selection, or prices. I don't like them because of their responses when they ship the wrong order. They have been a pain to deal with. I'll shop elsewhere but not because they are supposedly bad for the sport, simply because they are bad at handling issues they caused. Though at $1099, its the closest I've ever come to owning a NIB MacDev marker. Nearly jumped on it. If they are still priced there in February it will be hard to pass up.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:26 AM #46
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Originally Posted by lewis314 View Post
Walmart sells a variety of items from pharmacy to electronic. ANS is paintball related items for the most part. So it easy to say I won't shop there. Walmart sells essentials. I don't need to play paintball but I'll save a couple extra bucks at Walmart on toilet paper and toothpaste but don't buy my groceries there try to support local farmers markets and retailers.
Why is the toilet paper market any different than paintball? Surely there are small manufacturers and large, smaller storefronts and large. You either support the concept of small business or you buy for price. To draw different lines for different products is a bit hypocritical. I'm sure there are far more brick and mortar corner store convenience store owners and works to be affected by discount bulk sellers than paintball stores.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:29 AM #47
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1099 would be a decent price if sponsored guns being dumped into BST in droves hadn't dropped the resale below that or 120 dollar cases of Wreck Elite field paint didn't make the experience less interesting than XBox gaming.

If the industry is in trouble, its not solely Evil ANS shouldering the responsibility.

I am the consumer. You are the manufacturer. You want my money. I want to keep as much of my money as possible. We are not friends. This unprofessional pity party is your own problem. Unless baby seals dieing is somehow involved in the process of your product getting to me, IDGAF. Work it out.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:35 AM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy2 View Post
I don't get the ***** fit from consumers. If you want to support the little guy, what does an ANSgear sale matter? How does them slashing the price on anything affect you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy2 View Post
And let's not start in on the Local store front. I have none, not within an hours drive each way
I wonder if there's some kind of relationship to be drawn between these two statements.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not taking a position on this. I'm just pointing out several local shops have stopped selling markers because of online stores engaging in practices like this, which might be why people care what ANS does.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:37 AM #49
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The issue isn't anything besides ANS has created an advantage for themselves and that cheats everyone else. If you on board with that then have at it but calling that a pity party is a bot of a stretch. They are cheating other large websites too, not just the small guy. This self made sale now hurts hustle and any other company, large or small, selling products. Its not just MD products either, they have done this repeatedly with several lines. So yes the small guys are vocal but this "**** you" attitude they have where they can act however they want with no regard to contractual obligations is the real issue.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:43 AM #50
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Although I 100% agree with this move, it is a drop in the bucket to actually fixing the issues related to pricing and profitability within paintball.

As for the question on if ANS should have the right to price things at what ever they want, then that is an easy one.

CHECK THE CONTRACT. In this case the answer is no.

/dispute
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:45 AM #51
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Glad to see this thread hasn't been deleted yet. I'm proud of MacDev for standing their ground and not backing down just because it's ANS.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:50 AM #52
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I think MAP prices are unnecessary and un-American in nature. As long as MD makes what they want on the initial sale and ANS is comfortable with what they get on retail, who cares? ANS is making less money and offering a better deal and people are complaining? What a silly market.

I'll continue to buy from whoever offers me the best prices and fast/low cost shipping. **** morals, I'm all about the numbers. Look to see a decrease in proliferation of MD guns because of this move.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:52 AM #53
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compplaining about cheape price for a marker means= you own a gt or gti and resell will drop or you are a store that will loose customers to ans and thats fine i understand

But if you dont have a clone to loose value or are a store owner that will loose customers than you are ****ing up in life
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:54 AM #54
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Quote:
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I think MAP prices are unnecessary and un-American in nature. As long as MD makes what they want on the initial sale and ANS is comfortable with what they get on retail, who cares? ANS is making less money and offering a better deal and people are complaining? What a silly market.

I'll continue to buy from whoever offers me the best prices and fast/low cost shipping. **** morals, I'm all about the numbers. Look to see a decrease in proliferation of MD guns because of this move.
The issue with this mentality is this: So ans takes over the sales game and local shops/field close, where do you play? I dont know many fields that dont require a store front to assist in costs. Can ans start making fields? Can local fields live off play alone? So now you have a field who's sole revenue is paint, guess what happens to that price. Now you have fields with paint thats 2x the price all because you saved 20% on that gun purchase that got shipped in the wrong color. Will you still be boasting the same mentality then?
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:54 AM #55
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Glad to see this thread hasn't been deleted yet. I'm proud of MacDev for standing their ground and not backing down just because it's ANS.
Yeah someone else said they made a news thread, but it was still in the MacDev section, so I made one. Wasn't sure if he did it wrong, or it was moved. But I felt it is definitely News worthy
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:59 AM #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetBunkerD View Post
Our industry wants to drive sales to local stores, where MAP isn't an issue, which is why these policies are in place, to deter huge online stores from ****ting on brick and mortar stores.
I have no local store within 2 and a half hours from me which means that I have to use the internet to purchase items. The question is that with MAP pricing what true benefit do I have driving 5 hours total and the $30-$40 dollars in fuel cost to purchase local versus buying online for the same price with free shipping saving me all that money used in fuel to drive to my local store, which would probably have to order the marker to start with?

What I think the real issue is that Macdev is upset because ANS has a ton of warehouse spacing being taking up by a product that is aging and to move the products they offered a sale price at a killer price because Macdev has failed to adjust there pricing to follow the market with there items.

I might not support ans do to reasons outside of the MAP issue but I also will not support a manufacture who is not acting professional by publicly flaming a business because someone somewhere got there feelings hurt over a dollar amount.

Great business model Macdev, if your dealer upsets you just make sure to publicly bash them!

Macdev has good products but seriously poor business skills. I personally will not purchase another macdev product again.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:00 PM #57
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I wonder if there's some kind of relationship to be drawn between these two statements.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not taking a position on this. I'm just pointing out several local shops have stopped selling markers because of online stores engaging in practices like this, which might be why people care what ANS does.
There could. If there was additional value at the local store front, I'd be glad to support them. Say they carried a given brand I liked, or were helpful in repair work, or were simply genuinely personable people, I'd feel a better value supporting them. I haven't ran into that locally and I do t personally know the people at other websites to draw that conclusion one way or another. The point still is that if people all truly cared more about their local dealer, they wouldn't buy based solely on price. I'm going to guess the local shops that stop carrying markers did so because they couldn't provide enough value to the customer to compete with stores selling based solely on price and selection. Just because you offer a product doesn't make you competitive or deserve to stay in business. If the masses spent money like the majority of the voices in these type threads shout, nobody would be affected by ANSGear slashing prices.

Quote:
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The issue isn't anything besides ANS has created an advantage for themselves and that cheats everyone else. If you on board with that then have at it but calling that a pity party is a bot of a stretch. They are cheating other large websites too, not just the small guy. This self made sale now hurts hustle and any other company, large or small, selling products. Its not just MD products either, they have done this repeatedly with several lines. So yes the small guys are vocal but this "**** you" attitude they have where they can act however they want with no regard to contractual obligations is the real issue.
Its a free market. The point is to do it better than everyone else and make as much money as possible. Very few people go into business to just scrape by. Mac Dev has no legal right to state what any dealer can sell at. Be careful how much love you put in manufacture required price fixing. Its illegal for a reason. It sounds as if you would rather a purely socialist society where we all make the same regardless of our ability, though in your defense as a nation we are headed that direction more and more every day.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:04 PM #58
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There could. If there was additional value at the local store front, I'd be glad to support them. Say they carried a given brand I liked, or were helpful in repair work, or were simply genuinely personable people, I'd feel a better value supporting them. I haven't ran into that locally and I do t personally know the people at other websites to draw that conclusion one way or another. The point still is that if people all truly cared more about their local dealer, they wouldn't buy based solely on price. I'm going to guess the local shops that stop carrying markers did so because they couldn't provide enough value to the customer to compete with stores selling based solely on price and selection. Just because you offer a product doesn't make you competitive or deserve to stay in business. If the masses spent money like the majority of the voices in these type threads shout, nobody would be affected by ANSGear slashing prices.

Its a free market. The point is to do it better than everyone else and make as much money as possible. Very few people go into business to just scrape by. Mac Dev has no legal right to state what any dealer can sell at. Be careful how much love you put in manufacture required price fixing. Its illegal for a reason. It sounds as if you would rather a purely socialist society where we all make the same regardless of our ability, though in your defense as a nation we are headed that direction more and more every day.
It looks like you missed the point. What will happen to the fields when the massive online retailers take over? If you don't live near a local store then Online retailers make sense. Once again my issue is merely with them dictating their own rules and cheating EVERYONE else, not just the small guys.

As for the person saying MD flamed them, people asked why the price drop, they informed that there was a map violation and they would no longer work with them. Hardly bashing.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:07 PM #59
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I like the move for them. I completely understand it and I can't blame them.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:15 PM #60
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:20 PM #61
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I love these threads.

The same people crying about MacDev this and ANS gear sucks that...

...will go buy a used Geo3 or LV1 in the B/S/T instead of paying retail at their local store.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:26 PM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippin35 View Post
It looks like you missed the point. What will happen to the fields when the massive online retailers take over? If you don't live near a local store then Online retailers make sense. Once again my issue is merely with them dictating their own rules and cheating EVERYONE else, not just the small guys.

As for the person saying MD flamed them, people asked why the price drop, they informed that there was a map violation and they would no longer work with them. Hardly bashing.
Its business. There is no sportsmanship for your competitor. ANS is hardly the reason local stores are struggling. Its a market with dwindling demand for local fields. I don't personally feel ANS is the reason there is a lack of demand.

I know for a fact that ANS has lead to me playing more as well as me having the gear to loan to multiple friends so they don't have to use crap rental gear. That has directly led to more field fees and paint sales that otherwise wouldn't have happened. I play for fun. My friends play for fun but even less. The fact I've been able to grab a dozen masks on sale, been able to refresh a dozen halos, and then scrounge the BST here to outfit 12 people has made my non-paintball friends comfortable enough with the equipment they get to use to go play at the local field. A big part of that is due to sales from ANS, as much as I dislike dealing with them over the phone or email.

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Old 01-24-2014, 12:31 PM #63
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Its business. There is no sportsmanship for your competitor. ANS is hardly the reason local stores are struggling. Its a market with dwindling demand for local fields. I don't personally feel ANS is the reason there is a lack of demand.
Youre still avoiding it. So ANS thrives with these contract breaking behaviors and, not directly, local stores close and fields have to ramp up paint prices since no one will buy anything but paint from the field. What will you have to say then? Wouldn't you rather choose your seller based on something besides the fact that they broke a contract and your able to sneakily get a better price?
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