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Old 01-24-2014, 11:24 AM #64
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Hey Lane or Damian want to chime in here?.............. Didn't think so
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:26 AM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinlife11 View Post
For as much as PSP monitors these forums (which is great) it is very telling in my opinion that they have thus far remained silent on this issue, sans the press release.

From a logical business approach this makes sense... Limit the manufacturing supply (# of photogs) and each manufacturer ultimately makes more money. What I think was over assumed on the leagues part is the market demand. Each player kicking in $10 or $20 to higher a photog is couch change for most people. When you start getting into having to shell out $50 or more we start talking about real money.

It would have been nice to see the league limit the supply but not by charging. How about a resume based credential program?! I know several photogs in the industry and I would love for them to actually make decent money for the work they do. It's a thankless job for the most part and the fact many do it because they enjoy it and either just break even or make only a modest profit is troubling.

I am eagerly awaiting an official PSP response to this issue.

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Old 01-24-2014, 11:27 AM #66
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:43 AM #67
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So with already being expensive to travel to these events...are you trying to rape the people who basically advertise PSP events and kill media coverage?raising prices will get you less coverage and make PSP events less desirable to watch or play...why play or watch or even follow PSP if you can't find results b/c you jacked up the price of a 2.00 badge that gives you access to film or photo...I understand you have to charge something so you can give publishing right but really?
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:50 AM #68
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Remember when PSP couldn't man up and give us an explanation??? Oh wait that's today
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:53 AM #69
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$5000 for a full year!?! LOL... because it wasn't hard enough for photographer to at least BREAK EVEN at events.... Will PSP be providing the photo/video equipment?
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:55 AM #70
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Welp, I know what event's I'll refuse to cover from this point forward. It's obvious they don't want any media coverage of the sport and are working feverishly to make the sport disappear.

I understand they have bills to pay, but it shouldn't be on the backs of the one's who are trying to bring attention to our sport and help it grow.

Overall just a dumb move.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:58 AM #71
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Psp saying you can only have memories no pictures... yet there is no series prize.. event prizes is an joke also.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:01 PM #72
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Originally Posted by p8ntcheck45 View Post
I am a professional photographer & have photographed the NFL, MLS, NCAA, X-Games, Dew Tour, WHL, NHRA, and many various high school and regional events across both traditional & extreme sports. I have never paid for a media pass at any of these events, nor has the company or newswire I was shooting for had to pay any fee to the event, league or venue to have me there. Charging photographers for photographic coverage at the event is far from the norm from the majority of other major league sports around the world.

I understand the desire for the league to seem more professional, but having photographers covering divisional paintball does not hurt the sports image in any way. In my opinion, it strengthens the perceived value to the "public, viewers and outside vendors" due to showing a large amount of media coverage & interest in the sport. More photographers means more content, this means more people will see photos & videos from the event, which is just a good thing all around. Only 5 for hire companies means the prices for team coverage will go up, total potential coverage will go down and there will be teams that will leave the event without photographic coverage that may have wanted it.

I hate crowded sidelines as much as the next guy, both as a player & photographer. But I don't think it hurts the sport or its image in any way having more photographers out there. I understand that some photographers are trying to make money to cover teams and players(or online due to web traffic), and that in doing so the league feels justified to charge them since they are making money at their event...while that is pretty much the entire point of professional photography as a whole (take photos for money) I do somewhat understand their viewpoint towards charging photographers to cover their event.

In my opinion, media access to the pro fields should be for established paintball media, sponsors & teams only. The remainder divisional fields should be open to a simple and affordable base price & approval that they are at the caliber of photographers needed. If I am not mistaken, it used to be like this not too long ago, and I strongly urge the PSP to reconsider this new rule.

I don't have all the answers to what would solve this problem, all I know is this new rule will eliminate photographic coverage of many teams & players who value that service, and it hurts the vast majority of photographers who are a very important part of this sports growth & success.


Ninja Edit- I would also like to point out that on my best day photographing a paintball event I booked 12 teams. Myself and my assistant where shooting from 8 AM to 4 PM non stop and it was extremely stressing & difficult to cover those 12 teams over 3 different fields & different schedules. On my absolute best & busiest day as a paintball photographer, the amount I made BEFORE expenses would not have covered one media pass for the standard PSP events.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhawk032005 View Post

Let me say that again..
Your taking money away from hard working people that do this for a living.
Well if you do this for a living, you should be paying the PSP for helping you put food on your table.

You should also probably get out of shooting paintball if you are looking to make a living solely off of photographing it.

It's completely justifiable to charge for photographic or videographic access to a PSP event. The high cost is what is at question here. I understand the logic that the PSP wants the overall quality of their media coverage to go up, but you don't need to do that by slapping a hefty price tag on it. We know that money can buy a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to skill, however.

The reasonable solution would have been to REQUIRE, and not make exceptions, to pre-registering as media via APPA prior to the event. The PSP would require each photographer to submit 10 paintball photographs/publications that they have taken to be reviewed prior to acceptance as a PSP quality photographer. With each application, a photographer must send in a nominal application fee (to help offset the costs of time in review). Upon acceptance, the photographer must pay a registration fee for their Media Pass for 2014, and a nominal per-event fee to cover the event.

These passes would be restricted to divisional fields only. The professional fields would apply the heftier fees (understandably so, with the success of PBA).
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:09 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimus85 View Post




Well if you do this for a living, you should be paying the PSP for helping you put food on your table.

You should also probably get out of shooting paintball if you are looking to make a living solely off of photographing it.

It's completely justifiable to charge for photographic or videographic access to a PSP event. The high cost is what is at question here. I understand the logic that the PSP wants the overall quality of their media coverage to go up, but you don't need to do that by slapping a hefty price tag on it. We know that money can buy a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to skill, however.

The reasonable solution would have been to REQUIRE, and not make exceptions, to pre-registering as media via APPA prior to the event. The PSP would require each photographer to submit 10 paintball photographs/publications that they have taken to be reviewed prior to acceptance as a PSP quality photographer. With each application, a photographer must send in a nominal application fee (to help offset the costs of time in review). Upon acceptance, the photographer must pay a registration fee for their Media Pass for 2014, and a nominal per-event fee to cover the event.

These passes would be restricted to divisional fields only. The professional fields would apply the heftier fees (understandably so, with the success of PBA).

I shall give you a cookie.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:21 PM #74
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Originally Posted by Deimus85 View Post
Well if you do this for a living, you should be paying the PSP for helping you put food on your table. You should also probably get out of shooting paintball if you are looking to make a living solely off of photographing it. It's completely justifiable to charge for photographic or videographic access to a PSP event. The high cost is what is at question here. I understand the logic that the PSP wants the overall quality of their media coverage to go up, but you don't need to do that by slapping a hefty price tag on it. We know that money can buy a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to skill, however. The reasonable solution would have been to REQUIRE, and not make exceptions, to pre-registering as media via APPA prior to the event. The PSP would require each photographer to submit 10 paintball photographs/publications that they have taken to be reviewed prior to acceptance as a PSP quality photographer. With each application, a photographer must send in a nominal application fee (to help offset the costs of time in review). Upon acceptance, the photographer must pay a registration fee for their Media Pass for 2014, and a nominal per-event fee to cover the event. These passes would be restricted to divisional fields only. The professional fields would apply the heftier fees (understandably so, with the success of PBA).
i don't play paintball anymore and I wasn't referring to myself I have a full time welding job that I work. I quit playing paintball due to the fact of cost lol I do photography as a side business to bring in extra money and to see the sport I love close hand and I was doing photography for 3 yrs before being hired for the MSXL league. My point is in general if someone did that as a living it would be harsh payments..like the guy previously said he has never paid for a media pass other extreme sports competitions and I for one never have for anything but paintball.

Last edited by dhawk032005 : 01-24-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:27 PM #75
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At $250/team each photographer takes home $200 per event after covering their costs.
While the numbers you ran actually do create a profit, you are leaving out several key points. First of all, photos are not a teams first priority. Many teams complain about paying $100-150 per team, and often struggled to come up with the money. Also, you are failing to think about the economics of your derived profit.

Each photographer works ~11 hours a day x 3 days = 33 hours.
$200 profit / 33 hours = $6.06 per hour.
(Your profit is not including the fact that he or she must buy a $5 cheeseburger in between quick points, and will probably drink another $4 worth of water at the event to stay hydrated...but we can just leave that out...)

Now you have to factor in the countless hours of transferring and processing the photos, as well as the time away from their daily job/other paying clients.

After all that, is the event even profitable anymore? I would argue not...
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:29 PM #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimus85 View Post

The reasonable solution would have been to REQUIRE, and not make exceptions, to pre-registering as media via APPA prior to the event. The PSP would require each photographer to submit 10 paintball photographs/publications that they have taken to be reviewed prior to acceptance as a PSP quality photographer. With each application, a photographer must send in a nominal application fee (to help offset the costs of time in review). Upon acceptance, the photographer must pay a registration fee for their Media Pass for 2014, and a nominal per-event fee to cover the event.

These passes would be restricted to divisional fields only. The professional fields would apply the heftier fees (understandably so, with the success of PBA).


This would make sense, and a lot of it. However, I don't think there's any interest on the leagues part to have photographer there. If they had an interest, they would have though "hmmm, maybe this amount is a bit high". Maybe the high number was put in place expecting it to turn people away, and PSP will have some back end dealings with those they want on the field.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:37 PM #77
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Originally Posted by fallen9210 View Post
While the numbers you ran actually do create a profit, you are leaving out several key points. First of all, photos are not a teams first priority. Many teams complain about paying $100-150 per team, and often struggled to come up with the money. Also, you are failing to think about the economics of your derived profit.

Each photographer works ~11 hours a day x 3 days = 33 hours.
$200 profit / 33 hours = $6.06 per hour.
(Your profit is not including the fact that he or she must buy a $5 cheeseburger in between quick points, and will probably drink another $4 worth of water at the event to stay hydrated...but we can just leave that out...)

Now you have to factor in the countless hours of transferring and processing the photos, as well as the time away from their daily job/other paying clients.

After all that, is the event even profitable anymore? I would argue not...
.

I've had to go as far as putting players on blast on my Facebook page just to get them to cough up 60 bucks for their share of a photo fee for an event that was already over for 3 months.

Paintball players have a lot of money to play paintball but as soon as you ask them for a fraction of that money to cover photos, their pockets are magically empty.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:44 PM #78
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.

I've had to go as far as putting players on blast on my Facebook page just to get them to cough up 60 bucks for their share of a photo fee for an event that was already over for 3 months.

Paintball players have a lot of money to play paintball but as soon as you ask them for a fraction of that money to cover photos, their pockets are magically empty.
Nah just don't take photos of people for money without first collecting money for said photographic services.

Ya clam.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:45 PM #79
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:50 PM #80
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I have been a professional photographer for the better part of 6 years now, no other sports team/League charges for a photo pass. In fact they almost always pay for my travel and lodging. Just shows the big step the PSP took backwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinlife11 View Post
For as much as PSP monitors these forums (which is great) it is very telling in my opinion that they have thus far remained silent on this issue, sans the press release.

From a logical business approach this makes sense... Limit the manufacturing supply (# of photogs) and each manufacturer ultimately makes more money. What I think was over assumed on the leagues part is the market demand. Each player kicking in $10 or $20 to higher a photog is couch change for most people. When you start getting into having to shell out $50 or more we start talking about real money.

It would have been nice to see the league limit the supply but not by charging. How about a resume based credential program?! I know several photogs in the industry and I would love for them to actually make decent money for the work they do. It's a thankless job for the most part and the fact many do it because they enjoy it and either just break even or make only a modest profit is troubling.

I am eagerly awaiting an official PSP response to this issue.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:53 PM #81
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Let's promote the sport by giving it less coverage!
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:00 PM #82
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Suck it up guys. As stated most if the photographers are not doing it to make money so why not let those that are trying to make a profit, have full access instead of having to work around free lances in the way. You will also see higher quality work. IMO its a smart move for PSP but you will always have cheap people crying.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:01 PM #83
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:04 PM #84
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Suck it up guys. As stated most if the photographers are not doing it to make money so why not let those that are trying to make a profit, have full access instead of having to work around free lances in the way. You will also see higher quality work. IMO its a smart move for PSP but you will always have cheap people crying.
It's not that some are making a profit, and some chose not to. That's VERY RARELY a choice that paintball photographers make. Often times, it's a hustle to at least try to break even (especially when you're talking about events with airfare and hotel costs) and if you bust your *** enough, you MIGHT come out a few bucks ahead (MAYBE).

And the work doesn't end once you've taken the photo, and left the field.
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