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Old 01-15-2014, 08:46 PM #1
Righte
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So about that Empire Dfender...

Buy it. I'm a guy who plays tons of Speedsball and even I found it ergonomically more comfortable than my Luxe 2.0 setup. The cost is negligible. You get 2 barrels, one is a normal one and the other is an apex, both take FREAK Inserts and the box even comes with 3 inserts. It also comes with 6AA batteries which power the beast. A solid and a speedfeed hopper lid. A NICE service kit (Everything needed to service the gun, minus a dental pick)

If you are in the Louisville area and play @ Paintball Asylum, don't be afraid to ask to shoot it!
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:10 PM #2
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Are you saying that the cost of a 1200 dollar guns is negligible? Because I'm not sure that's true.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:27 PM #3
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By speedball standards that's pretty decent considering it includes a hopper.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:36 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggles View Post
Are you saying that the cost of a 1200 dollar guns is negligible? Because I'm not sure that's true.
So you're saying that the price of $1300 is not negligible considering other high end guns are $1500-$1700+ and that's for the gun itself, and not even a Hopper which is built into the gun system? Do you own a Dfender?
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:54 PM #5
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My shop got one, and out of the box it was nothing other than a disappointment. The magnesium body felt really nice and tough, but the internals were an issue. Out of the box, we found under the eye cover that they used electrical tape to hold the eyes on. Electrical tape! On a 1000 dollar plus gun! That **** isn't acceptable under any circumstance.

Also, the hopper kept jamming and the gun kept chopping. The reason was that the paint would get caught up in the bend in the feed tube and break or just simply jam the loader.

Another thing is that it can be a safety issue. When you empty the gun, there can still be 20 or so paintballs in the feed tube. If you are paying attention, it's not a big deal at all, but we all know that some players aren't exactly the brightest.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:01 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PREDATOR 47 View Post
My shop got one, and out of the box it was nothing other than a disappointment. The magnesium body felt really nice and tough, but the internals were an issue. Out of the box, we found under the eye cover that they used electrical tape to hold the eyes on. Electrical tape! On a 1000 dollar plus gun! That **** isn't acceptable under any circumstance.

Also, the hopper kept jamming and the gun kept chopping. The reason was that the paint would get caught up in the bend in the feed tube and break or just simply jam the loader.

Another thing is that it can be a safety issue. When you empty the gun, there can still be 20 or so paintballs in the feed tube. If you are paying attention, it's not a big deal at all, but we all know that some players aren't exactly the brightest.
That's weird, when I test shot the gun we used ****ty left-over-dimpled-picked-up-off-the-ground-dirty-as-**** paint and it cycled just fine, even in full auto.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:31 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PREDATOR 47 View Post
My shop got one, and out of the box it was nothing other than a disappointment. The magnesium body felt really nice and tough, but the internals were an issue. Out of the box, we found under the eye cover that they used electrical tape to hold the eyes on. Electrical tape! On a 1000 dollar plus gun! That **** isn't acceptable under any circumstance.

Also, the hopper kept jamming and the gun kept chopping. The reason was that the paint would get caught up in the bend in the feed tube and break or just simply jam the loader.

Another thing is that it can be a safety issue. When you empty the gun, there can still be 20 or so paintballs in the feed tube. If you are paying attention, it's not a big deal at all, but we all know that some players aren't exactly the brightest.
weird, the marker is supposed to automatically clear the feed tube when powered down.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:39 PM #8
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Quote:
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weird, the marker is supposed to automatically clear the feed tube when powered down.
Does it? I must have not been paying attention, because I didn't notice. The only time I tried shooting it, I had to clear it manually because it was jammed up.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:49 PM #9
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Quote:
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Does it? I must have not been paying attention, because I didn't notice. The only time I tried shooting it, I had to clear it manually because it was jammed up.
Yep, it will "backfeed" and clear out anything in the tube, but there is also going to be a ball or two in the feedneck drop down.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:00 AM #10
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I think the Defender looks awesome. I just don't have the kind of funds to invest in something like that.
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:58 AM #11
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I got my hands on it, and it did seem like a good deal. My only complaint with it was how wide the buttstock ended up being. It's impossible to shoulder without it slipping around. I saw one guy who was using his tank as the stock, then just put the hopper on top of his shoulder, so that might work. It would give you a better sight down the rails, as well.
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:29 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharptheJack View Post
I got my hands on it, and it did seem like a good deal. My only complaint with it was how wide the buttstock ended up being. It's impossible to shoulder without it slipping around. I saw one guy who was using his tank as the stock, then just put the hopper on top of his shoulder, so that might work. It would give you a better sight down the rails, as well.
It doesn't slip on mine, if anything you could always glue a rubber backing to it. I run remote line with it, but I still shoulder it sometimes.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:02 PM #13
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Have you played enough yet to see how long the 6 AA's last?
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:40 PM #14
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Only 2 cases shot through and still going strong.
Per Empire, the expected life of 6 AA is 20,000 - 40,000 shots.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:44 PM #15
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I "see" how negligible applies for sure. A guy at my field regularly uses his DAM as a speedball and woodsball gun. I wouldn't use a dfender or DAM for tournaments but the DAM guy seems to do fine.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:57 PM #16
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I "see" how negligible applies for sure. A guy at my field regularly uses his DAM as a speedball and woodsball gun. I wouldn't use a dfender or DAM for tournaments but the DAM guy seems to do fine.
I remember seeing a guy out at TXR rocking the Dam for airball...wonder if he was the same dude? Tall guy?
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:13 AM #17
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Still though, just because other guns are $1000 dollars+, it doesn't mean the price is negligible. That's a lot of freaking money to throw around. I personally wouldn't want to pay anything over $400 for a gun and even that seems like a lot to me. Only reason I have an ego was because I got it as at a deal from a friend.

You have to realize that a lot of people don't have that kind of cash to put toward something like that. If my family ever heard that I spent over 1k on just a paintball gun, I would probably see one of them break my door down and beat me. there is a reason these guns prices drop to 3-4 hundred a couple years down the road. Its what they are actually worth.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:28 AM #18
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I personally liked the DFender I shot. It shot smooth, it's a great scenario gun package (comes with the hopper, a nice smooth and efficient set up, milsim look), plus I have seen some really cool mods for them. If I can find one for under 1000, I am snagging one.
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:56 AM #19
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Still though, just because other guns are $1000 dollars+, it doesn't mean the price is negligible. That's a lot of freaking money to throw around. I personally wouldn't want to pay anything over $400 for a gun and even that seems like a lot to me. Only reason I have an ego was because I got it as at a deal from a friend.

You have to realize that a lot of people don't have that kind of cash to put toward something like that. If my family ever heard that I spent over 1k on just a paintball gun, I would probably see one of them break my door down and beat me. there is a reason these guns prices drop to 3-4 hundred a couple years down the road. Its what they are actually worth.
There is only a used market because people buy new guns. Just because you cant afford one or seem to think they arent "worth" the money doesnt mean they are over priced. When you grow up and realize what engineering, R&D, machining, assembly, testing, etc cost then i doubt you would say they arent worth it.

If your family breaks down your door and beats because you spent YOUR money on something THEY don't agree with, sounds like a classy family.

Your rational must be its not worth buying a new car, because it loses value the second you drive it off the lot as well.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:07 PM #20
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No, my rational is in priorities. A new car is something completely different. Its something that is necessary to get from one place to another. A new one would be a good investment.

A paintball gun is not a necessity. Its used for a hobby, an awesome one, but a hobby none the less. The cost just isn't worth it if you aren't on an actual team that makes money off the sport (which is rare). You don't get back as much as you put into it. There are plenty of mid level guns, that from what I've experienced, perform just as well as the high end ones. The price is still high for the average customer. You have to do R&D and etc. for anything you make from game consoles, to pianos, to about near everything. this one is no different from the amount of research anyone would have had to put in for any of their other markers.

If you thought I was being dead serious about my family than you need to look up what the word exaggeration is. No, we don't think its a great price. I'm putting my opinion down like the rest of us here.

If you didn't like what I said in the post, you could just say that you think it was a fair price to the work involved in making it, you don't have start trying to insult people and start acting like an *** just to bring your point across.

By the way, I am an engineering student and I understand what goes into r&d and engineering. My dad is also an engineer so even if I wasn't an engineering student I would still know what goes into. By the way that is another priority: school. Not cheap and an important investment.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:30 PM #21
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Not to be "that guy" but buying a car with the mindset that it's a financial investment is silly, regardless of condition.

The Dfender is pretty damn sweet though and definitely looks like it would fulfill many a Rambo fantasy.

I certainly wouldn't spend $1,200 on it but then again I'm married so that choice is already made for me.
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