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Old 11-23-2013, 08:01 PM #1
Ironman 22
 
 
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Rifled barrel vs straight bore

Can anyone tell me if you can shoot normal paint out of a rifled barrel
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:26 PM #2
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Yes you can but it won't do any good.

They work well for First strike but are less optimal for paintballs.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:42 PM #3
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thats fine i just wanted to make sure it wouldnt break balls
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:53 PM #4
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Originally Posted by Ironman 22 View Post
thats fine i just wanted to make sure it wouldnt break balls
I had an issue with cold weather and my spider Sonix and a rifled barrel breaking paint. It might just be cold weather.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:58 PM #5
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Oh yeah, rifled barrels were designed with all paints in mind.
As for Christian P, that probably was the cold weather, paint gets much more brittle when it gets cold.
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:10 PM #6
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As nahib says rifled barrels do not help for regular paint, though sometimes dodgy marketing people will try to convince you they do. The only rifled barrel that helps are those designed specifically for fs rounds such as the lapco, but it tends to *decrease* accuracy when shooting round paint.

You shouldn't have breaks in either though.

Last edited by vijil : 11-23-2013 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:27 PM #7
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thanks guys
planning on gettin a sar 12 and wont have any money left to buy fs rounds lol
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:39 PM #8
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id go with a different mag fed gun if your not really using it for first strike. Reason being the sar12 is a long and bulky gun if used in the format it comes in. You could save a bunch by going with a milsig or scarab arms and still have enough for accessories and first strike.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:12 PM #9
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Even on FS rounds, rifled barrels aren't necessarily good. The fs rounds have angled grooves on the side of the shell that spin them even in a smooth barrel.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:23 PM #10
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Originally Posted by Ironman 22 View Post
thanks guys
planning on gettin a sar 12 and wont have any money left to buy fs rounds lol
I'm gonna be honest with you, the SAR 12 is just about the silliest thing I've seen. Bulky, bolt action "Sniper rifle" in paintball?

Do you want to look silly or play paintball? I'm giving you real advise. You'll play with it a few times and then wonder why you bought it, and for $1000 bucks you got quite a few extremely nice, practical paintball guns on the table of your options.
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Last edited by Righte : 11-25-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:05 PM #11
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Forget everything you know about guns, none of it applies to paintball markers.

Rifled barrels are designed for a heavy, solid, shaped projectile. Putting a spin on a paintball will just make it curve to one direction or another, making accuracy even worse. It curves because when spinning the outside shell will be spinning faster than the paint inside, which will make it unstable.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:27 PM #12
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My qualm with rifled barrels is that they do not shoot clean after a break and take time to squeegee/swab out completely. Manufacturers like Hammerhead have shown shot grouping comparisons that favor rifled barrels, but I don't recall seeing a 3rd party test to back the claim.

Last edited by theVicious1 : 11-25-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:06 PM #13
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A few years ago I was a little more naive and purchased a rifled hammerhead mofo barrel. Although I would like to think it changes the flight of a paintball, it does not. However the carbon fiber barrel is very light and looks good on any gun.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:22 AM #14
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The SAR-12 was built with one thing in mind. Shooting First Strike rounds a long way. I don't think I have ever seen anybody put a paintball through an SAR-12 and I've seen dozens and dozens in use.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:15 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paper_Cut View Post
Forget everything you know about guns, none of it applies to paintball markers.

Rifled barrels are designed for a heavy, solid, shaped projectile. Putting a spin on a paintball will just make it curve to one direction or another, making accuracy even worse. It curves because when spinning the outside shell will be spinning faster than the paint inside, which will make it unstable.
Not completely true. The principles in real firearms about shot propulsion and why a longer barrel gives you greater range, yes but some of the theories on round shot vs shapped shot are applicable.

Look at the improvements in accurcy between round shot of standard muskets (which at .50 cal are fairly close in size to a paintball) and the Minie Ball. Those same lessons can be applied to paintball and First Stike rounds.

If it is the difference in weight between the spinning rates of the fill vs the shell that makes a paintball curve, then why does a baseball curve when a pitcher throws a curveball? There is no "fill" in a baseball to cause this instability you mention with paintballs. Also, why can an Apex barrel curve a shot predicatably?

The reason isn't found inside the ball, but outside the ball. It's aerodynamics. Riffled barrels are designed to impart gyroscopic stability on the round. However, because a paintball is round, it doesn't need to be gyroscopicly stabilied. A First Strike round, which is not round, does. If you were to fire a First Strike round without the fins (note the fins produce a slight bit of drag but also are angled to spin the round) the round would tumble end over end in flight because it is aerodynamically unstable. The rotational "spiral" spin the fins (and a riffled barrel) put on the ball help to gyroscopically stabilize it and keep it oriented in flight to benefit from its more aerodynamic shape.

Studies have shown that riffled barrel DO improve First Stirike accuracy though no one has proven why. The standing hypothosis is that when a First Strike round leaves a smooth barrel, it is not spinning at its optimal rate and, as I mentioned, it will want to tumble or wobble in the air until the fins bring it up to its ideal rotational speed. This is why at short ranges, there is very little accuracy benefit to FS rounds over regular rounds (under 100'). Beyond this distance, FS rounds are far superior to regular paint at maintaining accuracy. With Riffled barrels, the accuracy level of FS jump at all ranges as this "wobble" upon exiting the barrel does not seem to exist. The hypothosis is that the riffling in the barrel, even with a generous slip rate, gets the round spinning at its optimal rate before it leaves the barrel thus giving it the proper stabilization as soon as it leaves the muzzle.

As for the OPs question, I have found mixed results when using the LAPCO FSR .683 riffled barrel. Since the regular paint I had to shoot through it was of widly varying size (.679-.694) I found that some paint shot through it fine while other paint broke inside the barrel. Without verification, I assume that the ones that broke in the barrel were on the larger end of the paint's size spectrum. I have wanted to get a Hammerhead barrel with .686 and .688 sizers and try shooting both FS and regular paint through them to see how they work as others have found good results with this barrel.

From what I have heard though, you do see a slight dip in long range regular paintball accuracy with the Hammerhead riffled barrels. Short to mid range is relatively unaffected. Again, this is only what I've heard from some users who shot both regular and RS rounds through the barrel.

The SAR-12 is a Hammerhead 20" barrel with sizers.

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I'm gonna be honest with you, the SAR 12 is just about the silliest thing I've seen. Bulky, bolt action "Sniper rifle" in paintball?

Do you want to look silly or play paintball? I'm giving you real advise. You'll play with it a few times and then wonder why you bought it, and for $1000 bucks you got quite a few extremely nice, practical paintball guns on the table of your options.
In a way, I agree with Righte. The SAR-12 is a great looking marker and, if the game is right, could be effective. However, the game that the SAR-12 is built for we be a game more along the lines of a low cap airsoft game where all the paintball guns would be mag fed and only guns like the SAR-12 could use First Strike rounds giving the SAR-12 an advantage with range and accuracy.

Unfortunately, games like this currently do not exist in paintball. There are magfed markers and magfed only games but these games allow any gun that can shoot First Strikes to do so. In a regular paintball game, the SAR-12 is very overmatched as the fields are smaller and trying to find a place on the field that provides signifigant cover at long range against fast firing markers is very slim. I'd pick up a Hammer 7 and try that for a while. First Strike compatible, you can put a Hammer Head riffled barrel on it, pump action so you still have that same feelt to it, but much smaller and lighter, I would see how you like playing that style for a while with a cheaper gun and, if you like it, then invest in the SAR-12.

Last edited by Robotech : 11-26-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:01 PM #16
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Unfortunately, games like this currently do not exist in paintball.
Actually......talk to anyone who was at this year's Fulda Gap game at Command Decisions. These two guys alone accounted for over 200 eliminations. (Photo taken at the CDWC Sniper Challenge...which they won)



MUD (MagFed United Detachment) which was basically a bunch of MagFed players from all over the country, won the Most Valuable Team for the Warsaw Pact side too...which was the winning side.

Now I am the first to admit you can't beat firepower. All things being equal, he who shoots the most paint wins. And granted, Fulda Gap is not a regular paintball game. But there are some very dedicated people showing what is possible and its going to require others to change their tactics to beat them.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:00 AM #17
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Meh. Its all about having fun. It's like pump players who play against electros, yeah, your at a disadvantage, but its fun to use. Same with the SR - yeah sure, your at a disadvantage, but I'm sure it'l be fun
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:14 PM #18
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Originally Posted by PsiOps View Post
Actually......talk to anyone who was at this year's Fulda Gap game at Command Decisions. These two guys alone accounted for over 200 eliminations. (Photo taken at the CDWC Sniper Challenge...which they won)



MUD (MagFed United Detachment) which was basically a bunch of MagFed players from all over the country, won the Most Valuable Team for the Warsaw Pact side too...which was the winning side.

Now I am the first to admit you can't beat firepower. All things being equal, he who shoots the most paint wins. And granted, Fulda Gap is not a regular paintball game. But there are some very dedicated people showing what is possible and its going to require others to change their tactics to beat them.
I'd love to play a game like that...we just don't have the fields for it out here. I've played OK D-Day and at fields like that you definately have more opportunity for the SAR-12. Like I said, there are games where it can be effective. But that game still isn't a game where everyone was playing mag fed and the SAR-12 was the only gun allowed to shoot First Strikes...which is what the part of my post you quoted was referring to.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:03 AM #19
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mag fed is great in concept until you run out of ammo
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:00 PM #20
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Originally Posted by GoReadEmersonAgain View Post
mag fed is great in concept until you run out of ammo
No different than stock class pump. Problem is you couple limited paint with semi-auto and people forget how to control their trigger finger. I've played a half hour reinsertion game with 72 rounds of paint and walked off the field with 36 rounds left shooting a Dye DAM and First Strikes.

I didn't sit in the back either...I wound up pushing further forward at one point than anyone else on my team and took the center prop to win the game at the last minute.

I saw other people run out of paint and air during the game that were shooting regular paint out of regular hoppers. It's not the gun or the rounds you carry, it's how you play the game.

The only issue I have with the SAR-12 is that you have a number of issues working against you all at once. Bolt action, limited paint, and large size...any two of these issues and it's not a major problem...a pump is limited paint and slow ROF but can be very light and small, my DAM is big and limited paint but semi-auto...but all three combined make for a sever disadvantage.
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:41 PM #21
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If it's a 693 bore, At least a rifled barrel would give the ball (assuming it gripped) a chance to spin in a spiral - and therefore hinder the ball from moving erratically, which would obscure accuracy.


Makes sense in theory. honestly, I can't tell the difference when shooting. a 693 bore is a 693 bore.
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