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Old 11-25-2013, 10:22 PM #43
Righte
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I try to make it fair myself because I am a "Regular" of the field. The Referees know me. When I'm playing with rentals I'm laid back and give pointers, I usually jog and purposely play a little bit more open than I normally would. It's still fun for me and it's still fun for the group I'm playing with/against. If there is an ***-hat acting/being "super pro 12.5bps in your face" to renters, he gets rushed and the first one taken out until he stops acting that way. If I hear renters talking about my gun I go back and get a rental gun.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:29 AM #44
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why is it that it seems as tho the majority of people on here think that the sport should cater only to the kids that play once a year or once in their life??

the regulars are the ones spending the money every weekend. even during the week on new equipment. they are the ones that are there every weekend, money in hand. they will be there in the cold as well as the extreme heat. if they have one bad day, they will still come back.

discrimination goes both ways and frankly im tired of people discriminating against the regular or "better" players. paintball is not like all other sports. you cant usually just go to any old soccer, football, basketball field/court on sunday and play. and if you could, everyone would NOT be on the same skill level. would you then ***** because someone else has invested more time and effort into improving their skill at the sport, and is therefore better than you?? or you would go home, practice more and try to get better and be on that guys level? it seems as tho newer paintball players (or rather parents) expect everyone else to dumb themselves down to newbie level or not play at all. thats bull****, cuz again i will repeat the fact that regulars will outspend walkons all the day.

stop your crying and whining. its old. its not amusing. If you wanna play our sport we'd love to have you. but keep in mind, the point of the game is to SHOOT the other team, which means you WILL be shot. so if you're a ***** and wanna cry about fairness, you'll probably cry when you get shot too. find another sport then....Im 5'2" 120lbs, so you dont see me on the football field crying that it isnt fair cuz the 6'4" 275lb guy is better than me. I realize that football isnt for me and found something that is.....paintball. I dont try to ruin your fun, stop trying to ruin mine
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:34 AM #45
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As a natural lone wolf, I get picked last in the beginning of the day. I end up on the newbie team nearly every first game. At the end of the day players are begging to be on my team, pretending to have malfunctions on the other team, refs add extra players to the other team, or I get picked as someone's personal bodyguard for a 2 vs 5 or 7.

It might be because of the way I arrange things though. Sometimes when I can't get a 1vs1 practice I'll say, "How about you three against me."
But then sometimes even then, "Wait, are you a pro or something? Dude hold up guys this guy is scary! What are you hiding?"

One day on a sup airball field...
Captain: "Someone has to go on the other team"
Some other player: "No, no, no, I'm not going over there, you guys are going to kick our ***!"
"Someone has to go over there to even the teams, and it might as well be you."
"No I'm not going over there, I'm just going to quit if I go over there."

Captain looks at me, "Hey you, I don't know you, go on the other team!"
"o.k.," then jog to the other side and immediately put my marker on the starting box.
"Wait, what the heck? Come back! Oh ****, I think I just made a huge mistake."

Every game is practice. Tournament teams sometimes run scenarios 1 vs 3, so why would it bother any experienced player, who realizes the teams are uneven? Tournament teams become better by versing each other, so why would it bother any group of experienced players to be split up? If a field sponsored team is used to destroying the walkons what will happen when another tournament team blends in on the other team? In my experience, the field sponsored team get's their ***** handed to them.

Last edited by Subterfuge : 11-26-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:16 PM #46
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Because rec ball isn't practice. It isn't a tournament. It's a bunch of people that want to go out and have fun. If you're PAYING to get into a park and the only games of basketball are a bunch of NBA guys playing together and they're playing against everyone and won't split up, guess what? You're NOT GOING TO RETURN. That's the problem. People PAY to play paintball. If the renters (which are where fields make 60%+ of their money) don't return, it hurts their bottom line more than if the regulars are but-hurt and won't come back for 2 weeks.

It's simply no fun for a renter to be thrown against a bunch of players who know each other, know how they play, are using superior equipment, and are simply better in every way at the game. They're not paying their money to be practiced on. They're paying money to have fun. Getting shot up by a group of people who are plain better than you and refuse to split up isn't fun for the renters. Just ask anyone who's renting at a field where the refs keep allowing a group of experienced players to stay together. It's nowhere near as fun as when the teams are balanced and one team simply can't sprint down the field shooting everyone.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:21 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
Because rec ball isn't practice. It isn't a tournament. It's a bunch of people that want to go out and have fun. If you're PAYING to get into a park and the only games of basketball are a bunch of NBA guys playing together and they're playing against everyone and won't split up, guess what? You're NOT GOING TO RETURN. That's the problem. People PAY to play paintball. If the renters (which are where fields make 60%+ of their money) don't return, it hurts their bottom line more than if the regulars are but-hurt and won't come back for 2 weeks.

It's simply no fun for a renter to be thrown against a bunch of players who know each other, know how they play, are using superior equipment, and are simply better in every way at the game. They're not paying their money to be practiced on. They're paying money to have fun. Getting shot up by a group of people who are plain better than you and refuse to split up isn't fun for the renters. Just ask anyone who's renting at a field where the refs keep allowing a group of experienced players to stay together. It's nowhere near as fun as when the teams are balanced and one team simply can't sprint down the field shooting everyone.
This pretty much sums it up here
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:27 PM #48
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Never quite understood this. Personally, me and my friends go to shoot each other, which is why we try our best to be split up.
You can't really trash talk random strangers when you shoot them in the face, which is why it's good to have friends that will joke around with you.

Nothing as fun as getting in a snap shooting battle and shouting insults at each other "Common _______, you call that snap shooting? You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" as we both exchange insults and laugh it up with smiles on our faces.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:39 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidfiretibby View Post
why is it that it seems as tho the majority of people on here think that the sport should cater only to the kids that play once a year or once in their life??
Because, at some point, YOU were one of those new kids. Did you carry a sign saying, "Hey, this is my first time but I'm going to do this for a long time and become a regular!" Probably not and until that stops happening, we don't know who out of that new group of players is going to be playing their first and last paintball game and who is going to find a new sport and hobby that they'll spend countless dollars and endless years enjoying and contributing to.

Quote:
the regulars are the ones spending the money every weekend. even during the week on new equipment. they are the ones that are there every weekend, money in hand. they will be there in the cold as well as the extreme heat. if they have one bad day, they will still come back.
But without new players coming in the sport goes stale. People don't want to go play agianst the same old people every week. People leave the sport and without new numbers coming in, the pool of regulars gets smaller and smaller until their meager numbers can't support the businesses and the businesses fail. I am big into the R/C Car scene, I have been involved there for almost 30 years and I have seen these first hand. Tracks that catered to the regulars and let the new drivers fend for themselves. Those tracks, before they closed their doors, would have the same five or six regulars showing up every week...but that's all they'd have, five or six regular drivers and no one else. The ecconomy plays a role with this too and that's why you've seen paintball shrink...why magfed and pump have seen such growth.

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discrimination goes both ways and frankly im tired of people discriminating against the regular or "better" players.
You're right. But "better" or more experianced players should understand the dynamics of the game and that in order to continue to enjoy the sport, they need to cater to the new player. You want to have a game where you do whatever you want? Get all those "regular" players together and have your own private game. No problem. But if you want to go play with the renter walk-on players, then you need to cater to that group. It goes both ways.

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paintball is not like all other sports. you cant usually just go to any old soccer, football, basketball field/court on sunday and play.
I'm not sure where you're from, but here in CA...on any Sunday...I can find a field to play soccer, football, basketball and jump into a pickup game if I wanted to.

[quote]and if you could, everyone would NOT be on the same skill level. would you then ***** because someone else has invested more time and effort into improving their skill at the sport, and is therefore better than you?? or you would go home, practice more and try to get better and be on that guys level?[quote]

So you're saying we should take Tommy Jr. who's 6 and wants to play football and throw him into the Super Bowl. In all those sports you just mentioned, they all have differnet levels of play based on age and experiance. All of them. So taking that example, at your field you should have a beginner/rental group, an intermediate group, and an advanced group. Problem is, if fields implimented this structure your advanced group would be about 4 people, Intermediate would be maybe 10, and then beginner would be 40+. So now the experts and intermediates want to jump in with the beginners and ***** about getting split up.

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it seems as tho newer paintball players (or rather parents) expect everyone else to dumb themselves down to newbie level or not play at all. thats bull****, cuz again i will repeat the fact that regulars will outspend walkons all the day.
Do you own a field? Because the fields out here, if they had to choose, will choose the beginner players all the time. The beginners are the ones that rent gear, buy paint there, and buy food there. The regulars own their own equipment, buy their paint elsewhere, and bring their own food because they know how expensive it is at the park. Per person, the newbie/first time player spends more money than the regular player per visit to the park. Oh, and the rentals outnumber the regulars too.

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stop your crying and whining. its old. its not amusing. If you wanna play our sport we'd love to have you. but keep in mind, the point of the game is to SHOOT the other team, which means you WILL be shot. so if you're a ***** and wanna cry about fairness, you'll probably cry when you get shot too. find another sport then....Im 5'2" 120lbs, so you dont see me on the football field crying that it isnt fair cuz the 6'4" 275lb guy is better than me. I realize that football isnt for me and found something that is.....paintball. I dont try to ruin your fun, stop trying to ruin mine
You don't want people to come play the sport. If you did you would voluntarily put yourselves and the more experianced players into their own games and play however you like. No, you want to play with a lot of people so you go into games with new players and play your way. That doesn't promote bringing new people in. People don't fear getting shot, they fear going up against someone who is experianced when they are green and getting dominated. High rates of fire, overly aggressive play, and "winning is everything" attitudes are all ingredients to feeding that fear. Some may overcome it instantly but they are the few. Others, if given the opportunity to play with people at their own level, will have fun and want to get more involved in the sport. These folks will be more numerous and will eventually come to be more experianced players who won't feel dominated by high ROF and aggressive play but that transition takes time.

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Never quite understood this. Personally, me and my friends go to shoot each other, which is why we try our best to be split up.
You can't really trash talk random strangers when you shoot them in the face, which is why it's good to have friends that will joke around with you.

Nothing as fun as getting in a snap shooting battle and shouting insults at each other "Common _______, you call that snap shooting? You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" as we both exchange insults and laugh it up with smiles on our faces.
Absolutely! Two weekends ago I went out and played with my team for the first time in a long time (recovering from a shattered lower leg...have a metal rod in it) and at one point, we went 10 on 10 and did a respawn game. Objective was to control a box of paint in the middle of the field when the 30 minute game expired, whichever side had the box at that time, won the game. As time ticked down, I made a (gimpy) run for the box, went into a slide, and wrapped my arms around the box just as time expired. As my teammates that were on the other side start coming out of cover, I yell "Ya'll were just beat by the cripple!" and everyone breaks out into laughter then one of them is gracious enough to help me to my feet. If you've never played agaisnt your friends, try it and you'll find it can be equally as fun as playing with them.

Last edited by Robotech : 11-26-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:27 PM #50
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cuz again i will repeat the fact that regulars will outspend walkons all the day.
On any given day, some regulars will spend more than the average renter and some will spend less.

Over the course of a year, the average regular spends more than the average renter, by probably quite a bit.

Over the course of the year, all my renters combined spend several times more than all my regulars combined. If you made me choose one or the other to cater to, which one do you think I would choose? If you mistreat my renter customers, guess who I am going to send home?

I love my regular customers, but not to the point where I will let them ruin my business. Back on topic, if my refs aren't going to make sure teams are fair and everyone is having fun, they aren't going to be my refs for very long. If I have a group of regulars that refuse to break up when asked to do so, their other choice is to go home (I will refund them their money).
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:52 PM #51
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I don't get why people can't split up. Are you really that bad that you can't play without them? Or are you just afraid they're gonna rape you? I love shooting my friends. If you lose you had a good laugh, If you win you get bragging rights. Win Win, plus the renters get to have fun on even teams.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:59 PM #52
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I don't have a problem splitting up with my buddies. We like it sometimes then sometimes we like to stay together and work on our communication skills. Our local field does cater to the regulars and it gets annoying. I don't play there enough to be a regular. They get better discounts play for free and don't get called out when hit if it isn't noticeable. That's why usually I shoot till they yell or the ref says out. Had to many hits I seen not get called.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:05 PM #53
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If you are looking to stay on the same team and not go against rentals, everyone is a regular at an outlaw field.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:57 PM #54
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I have read through this thread and thought it over. To be honest, I see clear and valid points with both sides.

It wasn't long ago I was a new player. I had only played with private groups of mostly renters and people of my skill level. I was fearful to play as an open walk on and always demanded the teams to be stacked evenly. Nothing ruins a new persons day like being obliterated by some tournament team (trust me, I would know).

However as I have become one of those regulars, I see the points some people on here are making. Of course I want to play with my friends/team makes when we go as walk ons.

The issue is balance. The dream would be to have enough experienced people there that you didn't have to split up the groups. But in the end, it is more important that you get those renters to turn into regulars then have you play with your friends. And even if your group is split up, odds are you'll end up with at least on of your friends even if the others are on the other team!
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:48 PM #55
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:53 PM #56
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Quote:
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I have read through this thread and thought it over. To be honest, I see clear and valid points with both sides.

It wasn't long ago I was a new player. I had only played with private groups of mostly renters and people of my skill level. I was fearful to play as an open walk on and always demanded the teams to be stacked evenly. Nothing ruins a new persons day like being obliterated by some tournament team (trust me, I would know).

However as I have become one of those regulars, I see the points some people on here are making. Of course I want to play with my friends/team makes when we go as walk ons.

The issue is balance. The dream would be to have enough experienced people there that you didn't have to split up the groups. But in the end, it is more important that you get those renters to turn into regulars then have you play with your friends. And even if your group is split up, odds are you'll end up with at least on of your friends even if the others are on the other team!
Exactly. If the regulars are trying to play together, then have their own private game. When they combine with renters/party, the renters are the primary concern. Balance is key for teams for the day.
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Old 11-29-2013, 02:55 PM #57
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Both sides make a valid point. However, a stacked team is no fun for either side. Rec ball is just that, rec ball, it is supposed to be fun. It isn't supposed to be domination game after game noone should really care who wins just as long as you're having fun and slinging paint.

Now, I've been to a field and not wanted to seperate from my friends. Reason? First game at a new field. If a buddy and I made the couple hour drive to go check it out, paid an amazing $100+ for ****ty paint entry and air. I almost feel like the field "owes" it to me to allow me and my buddy to check their field out together. After the first game, if they split us up, cool. I understand. I politely ask though that if some of their "regulars" or other skilled players show, could they please put my buddy back with me. Usually most fields will honor that request, especially after you explain to them you and him drove 2+ hours to check it out.

The bottom line is, a field should be policing the people playing there. If they have people being genuine asshats and they aren't doing something about it. Speak up. Say something. If nothing changes. Vote with your dollars.
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:13 AM #58
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Just send the handful of experienced players out against EVERYBODY. IT gives them a challenge and makes the rentals feel like they have a chance. Afterward, split them up so the teams are even, all around. Stacking the deck goes both ways.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:25 AM #59
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Just want to throw this out there, the counter-example to refs screwing over the rentals, a field running a game exactly the way they should:


Basically, in between rounds at this big game, the organizer ran down the list of players on each team, and since some people had left, shuffled others around to keep things fair.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:36 PM #60
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Field I've been playing at do good about splitting up the people or if some regulars come they will stack a team of renters, less experienced people (4-5 people to one experienced player with reinsertion on the bigger fields). Works really good and the younger or less experienced players get pumped for the chance to take down the more experienced people down.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:47 PM #61
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Basically, in between rounds at this big game, the organizer ran down the list of players on each team, and since some people had left, shuffled others around to keep things fair.
I just played a big game at On Target Paintball yesterday and this is exactly what they did. The first round was pretty badly one sided so they switched up a few teams, instead of single players. And the second round and final battle was ******* amazing cause of it. The team that was under the first round actually ended up winning.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:52 AM #62
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I know in the Houston area several fields do things differently....one field just splits up people simple...another actually calls for experienced main group and a beginner main group...i did get yelled at because i was in the beginner main group but that is because my gf had never played before and i wasnt gonna leave her by herself...

But when i started playing in 03..i walked on the that pipe field with my 98 custom against tourny guys and got destroyed..what happened went back out there and still playing strong today..
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:21 PM #63
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Its not really a problem where I play in minnesota as many of the regulars are all about getting people into paintball and building a better community.
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