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Old 12-10-2013, 11:26 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacc Dragon View Post
The players chose to play where their sponsors told them to play...that's not quite the same thing as speaking up on what their preference was.

The big 3 (Dye, GI Sports, & Kee) chose to sponsor the league that they are principal owners of...everyone else set up their booths where they knew the majority of players were being told to play.

None of your examples quoted show ringing endorsements of the PSP, as much as they show that the majority of the players will allow the small discounts disguised as "sponsorship" dictate where & what they play.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:42 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacc Dragon View Post
The players chose to play where their sponsors told them to play...that's not quite the same thing as speaking up on what their preference was.

The big 3 (Dye, GI Sports, & Kee) chose to sponsor the league that they are principal owners of...everyone else set up their booths where they knew the majority of players were being told to play.

None of your examples quoted show ringing endorsements of the PSP, as much as they show that the majority of the players will allow the small discounts disguised as "sponsorship" dictate where & what they play.
Yep you nailed it
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:13 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacc Dragon View Post
The players chose to play where their sponsors told them to play...that's not quite the same thing as speaking up on what their preference was.

The big 3 (Dye, GI Sports, & Kee) chose to sponsor the league that they are principal owners of...everyone else set up their booths where they knew the majority of players were being told to play.

None of your examples quoted show ringing endorsements of the PSP, as much as they show that the majority of the players will allow the small discounts disguised as "sponsorship" dictate where & what they play.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:38 AM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacc Dragon View Post
The players chose to play where their sponsors told them to play...that's not quite the same thing as speaking up on what their preference was.

The big 3 (Dye, GI Sports, & Kee) chose to sponsor the league that they are principal owners of...everyone else set up their booths where they knew the majority of players were being told to play.

None of your examples quoted show ringing endorsements of the PSP, as much as they show that the majority of the players will allow the small discounts disguised as "sponsorship" dictate where & what they play.
All the big distributors have revolving door sponsorship programs. I could form a new team this morning and have entry level offers from multiple distributors, both NPPL and PSP supporters, by dinner if I make a presentable application and outline how we will support their business. Saying that 10-20% discounts controlled an entire industry is silly. There's no way you can make a legitimate claim that you see a landslide victory in attendance for the PSP on the sole basis of discount programs. Team sponsorship isn't the cause of the problem. It's an excuse. The opportunities have always been there. Players chose not to take them in the NPPL.

Last I checked, GI isn't an owner of the PSP.

Last edited by eforce : 12-12-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:34 PM #47
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sorry jump late...

Why does the owner of the APPA not use this ranking system in his own league?
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:21 AM #48
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sorry jump late... Why does the owner of the APPA not use this ranking system in his own league?
The apa and appa are different things. And if you're referring to ncpa, he does use appa.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:03 PM #49
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Sorry I was with the understanding ncpa events do not effect your ranking. Maybe the college players I know where wrong..
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:32 PM #50
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If I'm not mistaken, ncpa events have a very minimal impact in your score. They are treated as d5 events. Could be wrong on that though. Either way though, appa is definitely used for ncpa
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:47 PM #51
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You sound confused ...

I have friends that say after 4 years of xball they have a d5 ranking unless they play somewhere other than ncpa. Seems a little one sided and crooked
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:47 PM #52
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They do affect your ranking, but not a lot. That's because NCPA teams aren't built by taking players of a similar skill level and entering an event at a particular classification, but by making teams of whoever happens to be enrolled at the same school regardless of skill level. So there's enough points to keep NCPA players out of newbie divisions, but hard to do anything beyond that.

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Old 12-15-2013, 10:48 PM #53
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Quote:
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I have friends that say after 4 years of xball they have a d5 ranking unless they play somewhere other than ncpa. Seems a little one sided and crooked
That shouldn't happen unless they're losing... and that works the same for everyone.

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Old 12-17-2013, 10:38 AM #54
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Sounds a lot like what our local fields have to deal with. So why do the small series with 4 teams in a division not get the same ranking option your players and teams get then? Does not sound very fair you rank your teams in your own league differently than you do everyone else and your excuse can be applied to other leagues not just your own.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:17 AM #55
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Tell that to ncpa players would be d1 after playing enough college events that it's not fair. Why would you rank everyone the same if the competition isn't the same.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:31 AM #56
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I have friends back east that are ranked d2 from 1 year of playing a local non coached 5 man series with four teams in their div. tell me how that's fair? Thanks for support my point. It's not a fair system working system as cocky they are.

And if it's so hard for college teams why are they on national TV?
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:38 AM #57
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They're on tv cause they have people like Chris that work their *** off to get them there. And no one cares "what your friends say" or do, they care about personal experience.
Also, this thread wasn't meant to discuss the merit of the appa or the ncpa. So I'm done talking about it, we don't need to hijack Shawn's thread
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:56 AM #58
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Sorry I intend to be concern about how things also effect other paintballers than just myself. Not everyone can travel the country just play ball like I do. I see paintballers nation wide being push out of their local series due to this system I will consider that as personal experience. Not everyone gets the pleasure to be at a camp Pendleton every weekend with countless players or plays at a national level. I'll assume you played ncpa which means you may have worked for APPA so you have to defend them ... understood.... Good work Sorry Shawn Hate seeing Chris prance around with his broken system.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:39 PM #59
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I have friends back east that are ranked d2 from 1 year of playing a local non coached 5 man series with four teams in their div. tell me how that's fair? Thanks for support my point. It's not a fair system working system as cocky they are.

And if it's so hard for college teams why are they on national TV?
im not for or against the appa. but this is not possible with the way the multipliers are set up. i would love to see links for this happening.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:49 PM #60
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I have friends back east that are ranked d2 from 1 year of playing a local non coached 5 man series with four teams in their div.
Links or shens.
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:47 PM #61
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Lots of good discussion here.

I only saw one post that had questions for me. So I'll answer that one in my second post.

Here I will address the me vs. Chris thing.

My only real issue is if Chris and I have a problem then I think we should should handle it like adults off line. I did reach out to him directly but he didn't respond so I will post my response here.

I have no personal negative feelings towards Chris. I think he has done a lot of good for the sport and the APPA is a good system that tracks players fairly and without prejudice. I would have liked to use the system for the APL, but I believe he has every right to say no. The APPA is a business and he needs to do what's best for his business.

As a player I would like to have one ranking system for our industry but I don't think myself or anyone else should put pressure on the APPA to make business decisions based on that thought. The APPA is not a "common good". It is a business.

As to what happened 7 years ago between us, I don't remember it as Chris has posted, but I did make mistakes in trying to figure out what was best for my stakeholders at the time. I can't do much about that now, other than take responsibility and try to make better decisions in the future.

I believe we all can makes better decisions when we are are older and wiser with time and experience.

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Old 12-17-2013, 07:48 PM #62
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So what registration will we use?

We are working on a hybrid idea that allows a lot of input from the players to be able to call out mis-ranked players or "sandbaggers". I think we came up with something really cool and we are putting the finishing touches on it now.

I hope to release it this Friday to the public.
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:57 PM #63
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One league idea.

I don't want to get into a big discussion about this idea because I understand there are strong feelings, but I did want to point out a flaw in the idea of comparing one league in paintball to one league in football, basketball or baseball.

In those 3 professional sports there are minimum 20 "events" or games that cover 20+ weeks of activity. In basketball and baseball there are 100+ games over multiple months of activity.

If someone is going to argue that that is the model for paintball then how can we say that 5 events that cover 15 days of activity is equal to any of those other sports?

I have no issue with the PSP and the APL was not created to take teams from the PSP. I hope they continue to do well and serve our industry. But we need more paintball. We need a "water cooler" event at least once a month probably more. I don't know a paintballer alive that wouldn't play every weekend if they could.

More paintball = better.
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