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Old 11-20-2013, 06:08 PM #22
SilentBall55
 
 
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Answer is none. They getting close but with realistic exterior of the Tiberius TM15 coming soon which I will pick up, they still lack one thing.

Flat trajectory of paint coming out of the barrel. Someone has to invent a hop up system for paintball. I also airsoft and the hop up makes shooting more realistic. I shot my friend's 6lb DAM and the balls arc unrealistically making the red dot useless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnnVjyKcYY0

And realistic sound is coming also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV2YpzQoI_g

Last edited by SilentBall55 : 11-20-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:50 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBall55 View Post
Answer is none. They getting close but with realistic exterior of the Tiberius TM15 coming soon which I will pick up, they still lack one thing.

Flat trajectory of paint coming out of the barrel. Someone has to invent a hop up system for paintball. I also airsoft and the hop up makes shooting more realistic. I shot my friend's 6lb DAM and the balls arc unrealistically making the red dot useless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnnVjyKcYY0

And realistic sound is coming also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV2YpzQoI_g
Uhmmmmm, they did...9 years ago.

Warsensor WS-66 and MilTec MT-66 (really the same gun) had a barrel like this.



It was called, a "hop-up" barrel and put a spin on the ball like a Flatline or Apex.

http://www.b17queenofthesky.com/pain...s66diagram.pdf (note last paragraph on second page)

I loved this barrel and it shot very consistantly...

...BUT...

You want a flat tragectory, shoot a First Strike out of that DAM. I have also shot airsoft and yes, the hop up gives you a more realistic flight path but smaller airsoft rounds, coupled with much higher velocities (last I checked my airsoft guns could chrono at 450 fps) and their more durable construction (after all, they don't need to break) play a big role in that flight pattern too.

A First Strike round is MUCH more consistant than a backspinning paintball round even comparing my WS66 on a good day to my DAM shooting First Strikes on a bad day. At 100 feet with my WS I could be accurate but beyond that, forget it. And if I had bad paint...uhg! Forget it. The red dot would get me CLOSE to where I needed.

But with First Strikes? I'm using a scope to actually AIM for the first time in paintball. And it is useful. Was playing a game this weekend and was firing about 70 yards...YARDS (that's about 210 feet)...and could put the round exactly where I wanted it. My WS-66 would have never achieved that.

Your Tiberius TM15 with an APEX 2 barrel would be similar to an Airsoft Hop Up system...just the hop up is at the end of the barrel instead of at the beginning. Here's one on a DAM:



But if you have a gun that won't fire First Strikes, you have no idea what you're missing.

Last edited by Robotech : 11-20-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:07 PM #24
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Uhmmmmm, they did...9 years ago.

Warsensor WS-66 and MilTec MT-66 (really the same gun) had a barrel like this.



It was called, a "hop-up" barrel and put a spin on the ball like a Flatline or Apex.

http://www.b17queenofthesky.com/pain...s66diagram.pdf (note last paragraph on second page)

I loved this barrel and it shot very consistantly...

...BUT...

You want a flat tragectory, shoot a First Strike out of that DAM. I have also shot airsoft and yes, the hop up gives you a more realistic flight path but smaller airsoft rounds, coupled with much higher velocities (last I checked my airsoft guns could chrono at 450 fps) and their more durable construction (after all, they don't need to break) play a big role in that flight pattern too.

A First Strike round is MUCH more consistant than a backspinning paintball round even comparing my WS66 on a good day to my DAM shooting First Strikes on a bad day. At 100 feet with my WS I could be accurate but beyond that, forget it. And if I had bad paint...uhg! Forget it. The red dot would get me CLOSE to where I needed.

But with First Strikes? I'm using a scope to actually AIM for the first time in paintball. And it is useful. Was playing a game this weekend and was firing about 70 yards...YARDS (that's about 210 feet)...and could put the round exactly where I wanted it. My WS-66 would have never achieved that.

Your Tiberius TM15 with an APEX 2 barrel would be similar to an Airsoft Hop Up system...just the hop up is at the end of the barrel instead of at the beginning. Here's one on a DAM:

But if you have a gun that won't fire First Strikes, you have no idea what you're missing.
That WS-66 barrel does not have adjustable hop capability.

Paint is expensive like it is, playing FS all day is prohibitively even more expensive.

I have a Apex2 on my G1 for woodsball and it sucks when you have to tilt the barrel upwards to get the paint to come out straight. A true hop up system will allow you to aim the barrel directly at the target make either iron sights, red dots useable.

If someone ever designs a true paintball hop up system, FS would be obsolete overnight, along with Apex.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:28 PM #25
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Then that hop up barrel you saw above is a true hop up barrel.

Have you shot the WS-66? It is adjustable. In airsoft you adjust the hop up by raising and lowering the rubber pad that strikes the round. This Hop Up barrel uses air pressure so if you up your velocity, you could make this ball rise in it's tragectory. Good news is that at 280-300 fps, it flew flat.

The tragectory it produces allows the use of a red dot sight. People knew that if I shot at them, the first round would be on target. Hitting people at a full run, shooting 4-7 bps, was not a problem. It works just like a Hop Up does in airsoft.

As for cost, I played all day on FS rounds for the same price I pay to play all day on regular paint...I shoot A LOT less using FS rounds.

You're problem isn't your barrel, it's the round you're firing. Airsoft rounds are very close to being the exact same size, the exact same shape, and the exact same weight shot to shot. Paintballs, even the very best, are not. They vary in size, in weight, in shape, in roundness, GREATLY. Thus you set your hop up for one ball and the next one is going to be different enough to fly in a very different pattern.

And remember, in airsoft you just have to hit your target, in paintball, you have to hit it AND have the paint break. If the paint doesn't break, then you're still beyond EFFECTIVE range of the marker.

FS rounds hold their velocity better than paintballs because of the improved aerodynamic shape of them. This means at 300' from the gun, a FS round is moving faster than a paintball even if both are shot at the same velocity. This is why you can shoot FS rounds out to 300 feet and still get breaks.

Backspinning a paintball, while it reduces it's drag coeficent somewhat, does not improve it to the factor that the shape of a First Strike round does. Not even close.

I see you're in CA. I don't know where but if you're down south, you're more than welcome to try out my WS and see how that barrel shoots. Just be sure to bring some .690 tournament grade paint that is close to perfectly round and very consistant in size. Then you can try my DAM with FS loaded and see how much different it is.

Last edited by Robotech : 11-21-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:44 PM #26
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That ws66 barrel uses the same system I've been thinking of but didn't know someone had already done it. Are they still available? I take it they have patents that stop others doing the same :\

I'm sure there'd be good demand for a barrel of that style with cocker threads. Naturally that'd require some sort of mechanism to align the rifling. It's much better in principle than an apex or flatline and would still allow the marker to shoot FS...

edit: can't find jack all info about it. Just an A5 kit on ansgear.

Last edited by vijil : 11-20-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 08:54 PM #27
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I am picking a Tiberius T15 once they are shipping. At that point, I will move to FS.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:10 AM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vijil View Post
That ws66 barrel uses the same system I've been thinking of but didn't know someone had already done it. Are they still available? I take it they have patents that stop others doing the same :\

I'm sure there'd be good demand for a barrel of that style with cocker threads. Naturally that'd require some sort of mechanism to align the rifling. It's much better in principle than an apex or flatline and would still allow the marker to shoot FS...

edit: can't find jack all info about it. Just an A5 kit on ansgear.
The way the barrel fit into the marker was with a strip pin and then clamped down with a cap head screw.

From my teardown guide on the marker. (http://www.b17queenofthesky.com/pain...6teardown.html)





Even using this simple system often times the machining for the strip pin channel would cause the barrel porting to not line up at the proper position. The solution was to not use the strip pin and just use the cap head screw. Worked just fine.

Not sure how you would thread it and have them line up just right for all markers. You would almost need to make an adaptor piece to thread into the marker then make the barrel slip into the adaptor and use a slip clamp to secure it to make sure it was always lined up properly. You would need to make a shroud for the barrel to hide the mounting system.

I loaned a spare 14" barrel like this to LAPCO to have them check it out but I think with the release of FS rounds they lost their interest in the design.

While Warsensor still has a website, I'm not sure they are still in business. I know the WS-66 is no longer in production. The MT-66 is also no longer in production and Miltec, as far as I know, is no longer in business. Armotech was the parent company of both brands and was based, I believe, out of Europe. I have no idea what happened to them or if they still hold the patent rights to the design.

And that reminds me, I need to talk to the guys over at LAPCO about getting that barrel back. LOL Keep meaning to.

Last edited by Robotech : 11-21-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:08 AM #29
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Thanks for that, good info

I'm thinking a two piece barrel with a twistable but firm front bit a la apex could do it, though it could be much lower profile. Some kind of marker so you know which way is up.

Keen to find out about patent on this thing, will do some digging.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:59 AM #30
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For this to work the hop up groves need to start at the base of the barrel. The further away from the base it is, the less affect you see. So as long as the "back" was very very short (like 1" or so) you may not get the effect you're hoping for.

As for the company, I did a little checking. www.warsensor.com still works but I don't think you can get ahold of anyone throught the site. The only Armotech listing I could find is in Moscow...and the logo isn't the same so I don't know if this is the same company or not.

Last edited by Robotech : 11-21-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:05 PM #31
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Their was a Automag trigger frame that did the backspin thing along while ago,forget the name.
Something to add about FSR,although theyre expensive per shot I managed to get 4 confirmed hits and 2 potentials with 30 rounds at a scenario recently with my Hammer 7, cost per ellimination figure thats pretty good.The field was perfect for FS,woodsy with large open areas with sparse cover in between.Most fields will be set up for standard paintball play
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:38 PM #32
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Not bad...you would need to get one elimination every 80-120 rounds (apx) shooting regular paint to match that cost per elimination number. During one of the games this past weekend I got about 7 hits on about 24 rounds. Well, 6.5 as one of the hits nailed one of my teammates playing on the other team on the head but he was wearing this stupid beanie thing and the round bounced. Perfect headshot too...
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:59 AM #33
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The 468 only needs to be cocked once at the begining. I got a T68 with all the 468 upgrades.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:00 PM #34
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Their was a Automag trigger frame that did the backspin thing along while ago,forget the name.
Something to add about FSR,although theyre expensive per shot I managed to get 4 confirmed hits and 2 potentials with 30 rounds at a scenario recently with my Hammer 7, cost per ellimination figure thats pretty good.The field was perfect for FS,woodsy with large open areas with sparse cover in between.Most fields will be set up for standard paintball play
Not a trigger frame, a body. The Galactic System Z-body. http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tech...dy/index.shtml
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:05 PM #35
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Not a trigger frame, a body. The Galactic System Z-body. http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tech...dy/index.shtml
I stand corrected,thanks for the link
What did you think of this thing?
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:45 PM #36
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I stand corrected,thanks for the link
What did you think of this thing?
I've never laid hands on one, so I can't really say. The idea is nice, but the reviews I've seen are hit and miss.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:22 AM #37
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I have a Dye DAM and a T9.1 sniper(plan on selling). Love my dye dam. Since I go off on my own. I can hold back a few peeps on my own. Switching back and forth to fs/paintball when they get close and back to fs when they run away(lol) Dont mind shooting them in the back. But, looking in getting MILSIG mag fed. Love the concept on mag fed only. More of a scenerio look. T9.1 is ok but freaking loud. Milsig a little quiet but not by much. I sometimes carry two gun,(no pistol) One sniper and one full auto(somewat). Milsig would make a good sniper to carry and dye dam with qloader to hold back those close up peeps. Just wat i prefer
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:06 PM #38
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The Dye DAM is ridiculous. It can be mag or hopper fed with a flip of the switch, it has the matrix platform - argumentatively the most accurate marker platform out there, and you can get a box rotor for it - 300 round mag-fed ammo box.

And the standard mags will take either first strikes, or regular paintballs without any addaptors - I believe.

It's extremely hard to beat.

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Old 12-09-2013, 02:52 PM #39
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Originally Posted by DRAXX View Post
The Dye DAM is ridiculous. It can be mag or hopper fed with a flip of the switch, it has the matrix platform - argumentatively the most accurate marker platform out there, and you can get a box rotor for it - 300 round mag-fed ammo box.

And the standard mags will take either first strikes, or regular paintballs without any addaptors - I believe.

It's extremely hard to beat.
Hard to beat with the exception of price. I'd rather pick up a Milsig M Series Elite for half the price.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:29 PM #40
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The Dye DAM is ridiculous. It can be mag or hopper fed with a flip of the switch, it has the matrix platform - argumentatively the most accurate marker platform out there, and you can get a box rotor for it - 300 round mag-fed ammo box.

And the standard mags will take either first strikes, or regular paintballs without any addaptors - I believe.

It's extremely hard to beat.
And yet it does nothing for me... price doesn't bother me. I am willing to spend (and have) for high quality.

I guess the ability to go from FS to regular paint is cool but you have to crono at the FS speed and settle for low velocity regular paint...which is used far more abundantly.

Personally I think FS rounds should be used in a dedicated marker. It is not like a real world sniper rifle will turn into a LMG at the flick of a switch.

The best thing about it is the designers were smart enough to drop the stock down to allow the use of a mask.


And batteries suck.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:02 AM #41
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I want a bullpup...
They are working on bullpup technology in the marker industry. They created the first ever bullpup paintball gun by empire the D-fender but yeah i would like them to make like an F2000, Tar-21, FAMAS etc. Not that I particularly like bullpup style but just for variation. I do like the small profile of a bullpup but they always look so weird. The D-fender does look pretty good though so maybe a mag-fed bullpup will too.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:46 PM #42
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And yet it does nothing for me... price doesn't bother me. I am willing to spend (and have) for high quality.

I guess the ability to go from FS to regular paint is cool but you have to crono at the FS speed and settle for low velocity regular paint...which is used far more abundantly.

Personally I think FS rounds should be used in a dedicated marker. It is not like a real world sniper rifle will turn into a LMG at the flick of a switch.

The best thing about it is the designers were smart enough to drop the stock down to allow the use of a mask.


And batteries suck.
I own a Dye DAM too and while I agree with you, here is the thing. The chrono difference is about 15 fps. It's not huge. Where does that loss in FPS affect you the most? At long range. Your regular paintballs won't travel as far as someone elses. At medium range, you may find you get a few more bounces than others. Chances are though that it won't be a big difference. At short ranges the drop in FPS really makes no difference as the balls are traveling at enough velocity to break at either speed.

When you have a disadvantage now with regular paint, you now have the advantage of First Strikes which extend your effective range well beyond any marker shooting regular paint at field limit speeds.

The DAM is a great marker if you're a flexible player. Sometimes I play in the overwatch/scout role where I'm in the back taking shots here and there when I can while providing movement and info to guys in front of me. First Strikes are great here. Other times I'm the one on point moving up and here, I need the firepower of regular paint at close range. For a player like that, a DAM is a hell of a tool and is why I own it. If you never are a back player, or you only play that scout/sniper role, then there are better choices than a DAM.

Last edited by Robotech : 12-13-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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