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Old 11-13-2013, 09:33 PM #1
The_Delicious_Bacon
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Best Mag-Fed / MilSim Gun Ever?

Tell me your thoughts on what is the best MilSim gun ever.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:14 AM #2
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This is a hard question, given that nothing currently available actually satisfies my personal criteria for a magfed.

The ideal marker for me goes something like this:

Magfed, with 20 round continuous feed magazines that are reliable. Fs compatible.

Doesn't require constant recocking.

Electro - because doesn't fire without a ball in the chamber, allows burst (Important), auto and semi modes. Never ever chops. That said, also doesn't turn off after ten minutes or have lights I can't turn off.

Tank in stock. No stock tank means no sale.

Toolless field stripping, cleaning and basic maintenance.

See my problem? It doesn't exist. The DAM fails on three of those, everything else fails on at least one, normally more. I don't personally care if it doesn't look like any particular real gun so long as it has a military vibe. I do care about functionality.

Last edited by vijil : 11-14-2013 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:51 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vijil View Post
This is a hard question, given that nothing currently available actually satisfies my personal criteria for a magfed.

The ideal marker for me goes something like this:

Magfed, with 20 round continuous feed magazines that are reliable. Fs compatible.

Doesn't require constant recocking.

Electro - because doesn't fire without a ball in the chamber, allows burst (Important), auto and semi modes. Never ever chops. That said, also doesn't turn off after ten minutes or have lights I can't turn off.

Tank in stock. No stock tank means no sale.

Toolless field stripping, cleaning and basic maintenance.

See my problem? It doesn't exist. The DAM fails on three of those, everything else fails on at least one, normally more. I don't personally care if it doesn't look like any particular real gun so long as it has a military vibe. I do care about functionality.
DAM... you mean PAM...
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:54 AM #4
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My vote goes for milsig paradigm pro for sure i got one and love it!
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:48 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vijil View Post
This is a hard question, given that nothing currently available actually satisfies my personal criteria for a magfed.

The ideal marker for me goes something like this:

Magfed, with 20 round continuous feed magazines that are reliable. Fs compatible.

Doesn't require constant recocking.

Electro - because doesn't fire without a ball in the chamber, allows burst (Important), auto and semi modes. Never ever chops. That said, also doesn't turn off after ten minutes or have lights I can't turn off.

Tank in stock. No stock tank means no sale.

Toolless field stripping, cleaning and basic maintenance.

See my problem? It doesn't exist. The DAM fails on three of those, everything else fails on at least one, normally more. I don't personally care if it doesn't look like any particular real gun so long as it has a military vibe. I do care about functionality.
I was watching one of the tactical dye guys play at Fulda Gap last weekend. The DAM seems pretty baller. But I do agree with what you are saying. MILSIM guns need to be rugged.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:49 PM #6
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For a First Strike platform the SR1 is the king
All around I'd say the Tiberius line is probably to go to magfed at the moment.
Pretty reliable,quality construction,many different configurations,First Strike capable
My personal favorite is the SMG68
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:35 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vijil View Post
This is a hard question, given that nothing currently available actually satisfies my personal criteria for a magfed.

The ideal marker for me goes something like this:

Magfed, with 20 round continuous feed magazines that are reliable. Fs compatible.

Doesn't require constant recocking.

Electro - because doesn't fire without a ball in the chamber, allows burst (Important), auto and semi modes. Never ever chops. That said, also doesn't turn off after ten minutes or have lights I can't turn off.

Tank in stock. No stock tank means no sale.

Toolless field stripping, cleaning and basic maintenance.

See my problem? It doesn't exist. The DAM fails on three of those, everything else fails on at least one, normally more. I don't personally care if it doesn't look like any particular real gun so long as it has a military vibe. I do care about functionality.
Your dream marker pobably isn't far off. Both Rap4 and Tiberius will have an 18-20 round first strike compatable magazine (nearly identicle design), and the 468 and T15 are said to have e grips or mech full auto upgrades available near future. As for eyes, I think the Dam is te only mag fed marker planned to have those since the 468 has its mech eye bolt and the T15 isn't released so we don't know yet :p
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:36 PM #8
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Mm - The t15 apparently has no anti chop, the idea being that the mags are so reliable you don't need it.

The dam despite its failings is probably the best due to sheer versatility. No stock tank or continuous feed mags though and maintenance isn't great. The 468 needs to be recocked after every mag, the mkp2 is a pain to clean...

Meh.
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:57 PM #9
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TM15 doesn't even use mags, either
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:14 PM #10
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It so depends on what you consider important qualities. If I could have my DAM's board reprogrammed to be able to not turn off after 10 minutes I'd be golden. The lights are a pain but not hard to deal with. Since I mainly play scenario and the mag feed is best only if I run FS rounds with a hopper having a remote line isn't a hassle but if I wanted to go pure mag fed having a tank stock would be nice.

So really, depends on a lot of things.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:51 PM #11
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Yeah, for scenario ball there probably isn't a better marker than the DAM right now besides that auto-off "feature". If Dye haven't made a way to flash it we can only assume it can't be done short of a new board. Dye guns don't have any standard way to flash the board afaik. I would have thought USB ports would be standard by now...

It is possible to kill all or most birds with one stone however. If a tankstock/airthru and continuous feed mags were released for the DAM it would immediately be great not only for scenario but also for hardcore magfed. Fix the board and the only remaining issues are the slightly fiddly cleaning and efficiency.

If PE were to release a competitor based on a stacked poppet platform I'd be all over that. Not sure how you'd arrange the internals to allow upwards feed but I'm sure it could be done with a longer bolt and moving the breech forward and shortening the other bits a little (um... or something)... Jack Wood is a genius after all

Last edited by vijil : 11-15-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:10 PM #12
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I know Dye is working on a stock but don't know if it will be a tank-in-stock or just an air through stock. I don't see Dye coming out with a continuous 20 round mag just yet. If it happens, it will probably happen when/if they release an update to the DAM...and maybe not for a couple generations of it at that.

The auto-off feature kills me though...I've had that thing cost me a couple of choice shots.
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Old 11-16-2013, 02:47 PM #13
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My Personal favorite.

AGD Tac-One with a 10rnd stickfeed and a 4oz tank. Makes for a very light, tight set up that is easy to use, fast to reload and a TON of fun to play with!
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:53 PM #14
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Depend on your budget, milsig has that great cqb 3 starter kit for around 400$. Magfed is a little expensive to start out but cheaper in the long run
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Old 11-17-2013, 05:20 PM #15
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Nice one Nahib - how many shots do you get from the tank?
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:36 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vijil View Post
This is a hard question, given that nothing currently available actually satisfies my personal criteria for a magfed.

The ideal marker for me goes something like this:

Magfed, with 20 round continuous feed magazines that are reliable. Fs compatible.

Doesn't require constant recocking.

Electro - because doesn't fire without a ball in the chamber, allows burst (Important), auto and semi modes. Never ever chops. That said, also doesn't turn off after ten minutes or have lights I can't turn off.

Tank in stock. No stock tank means no sale.

Toolless field stripping, cleaning and basic maintenance.

See my problem? It doesn't exist. The DAM fails on three of those, everything else fails on at least one, normally more. I don't personally care if it doesn't look like any particular real gun so long as it has a military vibe. I do care about functionality.
I honestly hate electric guns, especially in magfed. I always thought that the reason people switch to magfed is to conserve paint; be more accurate, and make each shot count. For that reason, I actually find electric/automatic magfed markers useless in terms of my expectations.

In relation to your criteria, having eliminated the electric component, my perfect magfed marker is the Milsig Para Pro and/or the upcoming T15. Hell, even the M-series Elite and the TGR2 fit me perfectly.

They all have 20 round mags/capabilities;
none of them need recocking for each new mag;
they all have air tanks in their stocks;
and they can all be field-stripped without tools.

It's much simpler without electricity.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:23 PM #17
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:34 PM #18
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And they all chop...

"to conserve paint; be more accurate, and make each shot count"

Electro does this better in a magfed marker because it wont ever chop, basically, and magfed markers are notorious for chopping more than most. Speedball loaders are so effective now that tourney guns honestly need it less than magfed, especially since they're limited to 12.5bps.

Electro is better in three key ways: no chopping no matter how bad the paint is or how sloppy and old your mag springs are, doesn't go bang when you're out of paint which is more milsim and saves gas, and realistic modes if you want them.

The only downside to electro is having to occasionally change a battery, which in a well designed board will be 10k shots or more each time and you'll be given plenty of warning. Electro markers can be made just as rugged, reliable and waterproof. Electros have no extra moving parts. I'm stuck with average paint and batteries can be changed on field without tools... so it's just logical.

The next best thing to electro is the rap4 lokbolt. Extra moving parts to go wrong and means you can't dry fire without messing with it. In the 468 it means you have to cock every mag. The MKP2 is a pain to strip and clean.

So the electro component adds significant reliability, versatility when I want it and realism without the extra complexity or inconvenience of alternative anti chop systems. Even if I was only ever to use semi mode I'd still want eyes.

TLDR: Electro is more milsim, more reliable, all round better in every way. I've yet to see a compelling argument against it.

Last edited by vijil : 11-19-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:24 PM #19
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:03 PM #20
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As much as people seem to hate them, I'll chime in with a magfed Phenom. Massively moddable to your own tastes, you can use range of magazines via the various Tacamo magwells from the cheaper DMAGs to the squarehead Milsigs. Chop can be massively negated by the Lok-bolt, and you have the best of both worlds with the electro mode AND mechanical.

Only sticking point is FS rounds, but that seems to be coming fairly soon, and with the use of the aforementioned lok-bolt as well as a tapered bolt, you can do it "reasonably" reliably now.

Quote:
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All around I'd say the Tiberius line is probably to go to magfed at the moment.
You mean RAP4, right? Right?
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:12 PM #21
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^ Ha,nice one
Aren't you proud of me I didn't rant about their sh!t products
I'll have to figure out of your Phenom can use the board and eyes from the Crossover XVR with some minor modding
I've heard some solid rumors that Tippmann will be entering magfed arena soon,hopefully next year around Cup time,seems the Phenom based marker would be their best bet
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