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Old 11-04-2013, 08:23 PM #1
vijil
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Magfed speedball?

I know at least one other person here is fascinated by the idea of playing non milsim magfed. So with that in mind I roughed this up just to get people thinking:


- no point in a stock, just use a tank on the grip
- no rails, but these could be handy
- FS compatible, would need to figure out rules about that if it were to be used in a speedball setup


I know there are issues with the design (breech is miles away from where the balls would pop up for one), but really it's just a napkin draft.

Question: As an alternative to pump and full noise speedball, do you think there is potential in a magfed version of speedball? Why or why not? It might have more widespread appeal than pump.

If people were to do magfed speedball, would it make sense to allow pistols? Maybe let one player shoot a regular speedball marker or box mag per team?

Or, would you keep it to non milsim woodsball?

What are the pros and cons of such an idea, and how hard would it be to promote and explain?

Last edited by vijil : 11-04-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:38 PM #2
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I run my pistols against anyone, any style...its fun to speedball/CQB/woods etc with dual pistolas! You gotta try it, cuz! Aloha
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:37 AM #3
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http://instagram.com/p/gU1ScsJEYe/

Seen with a 17ci tank...
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:58 AM #4
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I just don't see it catching on. The way I see it, magfed is heavily geared towards milsim. I don't think magfed is the optimal way of playing paintball. It's getting better, but I still see people complaining about how bad some magazines are. Other than first-strike rounds, there's really no advantage to using a magazine over a hopper. I suppose your marker would have a smaller profile, but if the hopper wasn't there, then the ball would probably just hit you in the face anyway.

(IMO) The reason pump caught on is because you can use a cheap, small 50 round gravity hopper. It's cheaper than an electric loader, plus you save money by using less paint. I don't see a reason to forgo buying an expensive electric hopper when you'd just go and drop $30 per magazine on 3-4 magazines at the least. You just won't convince people to do that when they can fill a $5 50-round hopper with $2 50-round pods. Plus, if you really did slap a magazine on an Ego like in your mockup, you'd be shooting that whole magazine worth of paint in 2-3 seconds.

As an alternative to what you're suggesting (development of special "speedball magfed" markers), why not just get a bunch of pistol players together and have a speedball pistol tournament?

Last edited by g35x : 11-06-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:46 AM #5
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You would need a box mag to hold 200+ rounds of paint, making it bulky.

Like a Dye Dam with the box mag, it just doesn't fit he normal style of play.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:13 AM #6
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Yay feedback!

The point is to have a limited paint format, ie. 20 round magazines as an alternative to full noise expensive spam speedball but that's not pump. It would also have a certain amount of appeal because magfed is cool, and would get different sorts of players interacting. It's not meant to be 'optimal', just fun and cheaper to compete than anything available currently, with the added tactical depth of being unable to shoot while reloading and having to choose shots carefully, but not as annoying or hard to pick up as dealing with a pump or 12grams. Box magazines would defeat the purpose. Dmags and even dam mags cost nowhere near $30.

Pump is doing well because it involves a less paint spam style of gameplay. Yes it's cheaper, but not because of the gear costs. It uses less paint.

At the end where you mention pistols you seem to get it - I'm basically suggesting that but with just a little more firepower. You'd be allowed pistols too of course. And people could use any old magfed. The picture was just to get people thinking.

Last edited by vijil : 11-07-2013 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:22 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian P View Post
You would need a box mag to hold 200+ rounds of paint, making it bulky.

Like a Dye Dam with the box mag, it just doesn't fit he normal style of play.
I just imagine seeing some guy with a bipod out shooting with that massive box mag in the snake or playing doritos like rambo.

DAM speedball should become a thing.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:17 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vijil View Post
http://instagram.com/p/gU1ScsJEYe/

Seen with a 17ci tank...
you always come up with the best ideas
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:21 PM #9
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Pass, Speedball needs to be fast pace for me that means fast shooting, alot of paint, alot of moving, limited ammo makes u pick your shots slowing everything down.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:36 PM #10
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I'd play it, if it was an option but:
Magazines are expensive. As has been brought up before, why buy lots of expensive mags ($30 for 2 mags) when you can use $1 or $2 pods or 10 round tubes. I'd see stock class style feeds being used instead. Cheaper and you can use your normal gun, just add a feed $20-30 and bring some tubes. You can even up the capacity to 20 or 30 rounds with some creativity. Still limited paint, but cheaper to convert and more inclusive.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:39 PM #11
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Dmags are $6 each, but even if you're talking about $15 mags it still works out a huge amount cheaper. It's not like they can only be used once. Also magfed is doing pretty well right now and we might see better and cheaper yet.

Stock class feeds are a good idea. Would look strange, but might as well be allowed. I suspect a spring loaded magazine would probably feed better and have a smaller profile, so might as well let players figure out what they prefer. The only issue is that you don't want players to be easily able to shoot while reloading since that removes some tactical nuance.

Having less paint in the air normally results in more not less movement kolds.

And if you want that noise factor, maybe let one player per team shoot full noise - though that might make things revolve too much around killing the heavy.

Last edited by vijil : 11-07-2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:01 PM #12
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Like to see something like this on a CQB field with different categories,either in a 5 or 10 man format with respawn points with "capture timers" at each,points scored for # of eliminations and time held at spawn points.I've seen an airsoft game done this way,they had some cool game timer setup with different buttons per side that kept track of time
Here's a few "class" ideas
Sniper-First Strike allowed,magfed(duh),unlimited rounds,limited # per team
Heavy gunner-boxmags,standard loader,limited to 500 +/-rounds gun+pods,limited # per team
Rifleman-mag,spring or rock&cock,anything non hopper based really,limited to 200+/- rounds,unlimited per team
It also be neat to see some inflatable objects that looked more like broken walls,dead vehicles,anything resembling milsim battle debris
Hook teams up with helmet cams with a panning cameras around the field,you've got yourself a podcast worthy event.Great way to promote the recball\milslim\\magfed side of paintball
Here's a link to an airsoft spawn timer
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CEIQrQMwCw
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:03 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher068 View Post
Like to see something like this on a CQB field with different categories,either in a 5 or 10 man format with respawn points with "capture timers" at each,points scored for # of eliminations and time held at spawn points.I've seen an airsoft game done this way,they had some cool game timer setup with different buttons per side that kept track of time
Here's a few "class" ideas
Sniper-First Strike allowed,magfed(duh),unlimited rounds,limited # per team
Heavy gunner-boxmags,standard loader,limited to 500 +/-rounds gun+pods,limited # per team
Rifleman-mag,spring or rock&cock,anything non hopper based really,limited to 200+/- rounds,unlimited per team
It also be neat to see some inflatable objects that looked more like broken walls,dead vehicles,anything resembling milsim battle debris
Hook teams up with helmet cams with a panning cameras around the field,you've got yourself a podcast worthy event.Great way to promote the recball\milslim\\magfed side of paintball
Here's a link to an airsoft spawn timer
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CEIQrQMwCw
I'd be down for that, but we're talking about non milsim mag fed.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:18 AM #14
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Well by "non milsim" I mean that besides being magfed there is no milsim requirement or expectation as far as dress, marker looks or scenario goes. So wear your speedball gears and bright team colours because it's practical - but if people wanted to use blow up tanks and inflatable walls or rap4 markers then that would be cool too.

A big part of the idea is to build bridges between different forms of paintball. Chances are you'd get everything from hardcore milsim guys through to straight up speedballers showing up for something like this, and that kind of mixing is generally good for the game. Imagine this as a division at a PSP event. (I know they have too many random divisions already but you know what I mean).

The real question is whether people think the idea of using magfed markers on a PSP style speedball field would be fun even if it was a standard speedball format like raceto or whatever. Imo (as both a speedball and milsim player myself) the answer is hells yes - and I'd enjoy it more than pump personally.

Not that there aren't other format ideas that could be used, and there are plenty of ways to do things that come up in terms of player roles and quasi milsim scenarios that could work on an airball field.

I like your player classes. I'd add a 10.5 bps semi cap for all players since some magfeds could be electro or auto, and put a 30 round FS limit on the sniper (otherwise you get a potential $$ battle). I don't think allowing auto is really an issue since you've only got a limited amount of paint and per load - spray and pray wouldn't be such a good move anyways.

Regarding spawn timers etc. those are cool... we use a BattleField1942 style wireless electronic points per minute and game control base capture system here in NZ which works great in the bush but not so sure how it would go in a speedball like setting.

Last edited by vijil : 11-10-2013 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:39 PM #15
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One of the things that makes me want to play magfed on a speedball setting could be considered something that might discourage others.

Shooting technique.

When you have a hopper on top, any hopper (force feed, shake'n'bake, 50 round, whatever), you have to shoot the gun with a certain technique to keep that hopper mostly behind the bunker. Keep that gun at least straight up and down, or better yet angle the hopper in behind the bunker. So shooting out the right, you lean the gun a bit to the left.

With magfed the technique suddenly needs to be reversed. Nothing on top (especially in a non-milsim setup), so when you shoot right you lean the gun right and expose only the barrel. You can play super, super tight with no effort. This feels way more natural to me, and a setup that allows me to use this technique sounds a hell of a lot of fun.

However, for someone who considers their full sized hopper'ed electro to be their "primary" gun, and the one they use for "important" games, a play style that encourages a reversal of technique may be considered bad practice. These players have no issue with open class pumps since the overall form and technique is the same, and the limited firepower hinders the player just enough to be considered "good practice".

And as an aside, I don't consider box mags to be magfed at all. They're hopper fed with a relocated hopper. A good idea (we'll see more and more alternative hopper placements in the future like the Dfender, wait and see), but not the same as magfed.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:24 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubarius View Post
One of the things that makes me want to play magfed on a speedball setting could be considered something that might discourage others.

Shooting technique.

When you have a hopper on top, any hopper (force feed, shake'n'bake, 50 round, whatever), you have to shoot the gun with a certain technique to keep that hopper mostly behind the bunker. Keep that gun at least straight up and down, or better yet angle the hopper in behind the bunker. So shooting out the right, you lean the gun a bit to the left.

With magfed the technique suddenly needs to be reversed. Nothing on top (especially in a non-milsim setup), so when you shoot right you lean the gun right and expose only the barrel. You can play super, super tight with no effort. This feels way more natural to me, and a setup that allows me to use this technique sounds a hell of a lot of fun.

However, for someone who considers their full sized hopper'ed electro to be their "primary" gun, and the one they use for "important" games, a play style that encourages a reversal of technique may be considered bad practice. These players have no issue with open class pumps since the overall form and technique is the same, and the limited firepower hinders the player just enough to be considered "good practice".

And as an aside, I don't consider box mags to be magfed at all. They're hopper fed with a relocated hopper. A good idea (we'll see more and more alternative hopper placements in the future like the Dfender, wait and see), but not the same as magfed.
I think that if you use a box mag, you should be required to have your marker weigh as much 20-30 lbs) as a SAW.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:47 PM #17
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Yo there's no need to quote the entire post before yours...

Thanks for that Fubarius. It's an interesting angle I hadn't thought of.

When playing speedball I tend to operate on the assumption that anything that would hit my hopper would probably hit my head anyway, so mostly it's just about keeping my nose glued to the back cap of the marker and elbows in. So the technique probably isn't *that* much different, besides that with a magfed you can expose less of your head if sighting along the top.

One thing that occurs is that snap shooting would be easier. In speedball drills I quickly learned that snap shooting as fast as I wanted to tended to lead to broken paint in the hopper... wouldn't have that issue with a magfed! Or a dfender for that matter.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:22 PM #18
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It seems adding a boxmag do weigh a lot more than just having a hopper on there. At least when I owned my mkv I was sore the next day from just hawking it around the field all day. People would wnt to use it and I would loan it out but they would complain it was heavy and would give it right back. I like the idea of making a lighter speedball mag fed.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:24 PM #19
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I laughed when I red the title.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:55 PM #20
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I would do the mag fed speedball thing. That would be fun as all get out!!

One suggestion to bring up about the box mags for your "class types." Why not just make it so the player must have his box mag sealed with duct tape or whatever over the refill ports before he can walk on the field. Or just go by the honor system of not being able to reload the box mag and if he does reload the box mag with more paint, then he is cheating and automatically out.

Another idea is forcing the player to only be allowed to reload paint into the box mag when the box is not installed on the marker. This would somewhat simulate the time it and clumsiness of real rifles that use drum mags. Think of an AR15 with a 100 round drum mag. In size and bulk they are about the same as a paintball box mag.

Of course, I would allow the box mag user to have a few standard mags as well, just not as many as a standard "rifleman" would carry. So, one or two standard mags and one box mag compared to 7 mags or so for the standard player?
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:59 PM #21
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I laughed when I red the title.
Whats so different about it? Its like me saying, "I laugh when I see speedball guns in a scenario/woodsball game."
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