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Old 10-05-2013, 09:18 AM #127
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Originally Posted by Nokia6618 View Post
Love how people buy the story of "the intentionaly cheating tontons "..
Reminds me of a certain president off a certain country that was 100% sure of weapons of mass distruction in a far away "enemy" country..
You lost all credibility the moment you attempted to use a wholly irrelevant situation as a distraction to what happened here. There's nothing wrong with supporting your favorite team, but let's be honest here - how many times have you seen players get penalties they deserved, then go back into the pits and lie about their guilt or blame the refs? In every event I've reffed, nearly every player that earned a major for blatant cheating went back to the pits and denied any wrongdoing.

There's no excuse for shooting that hot. The penalty was for severe safety violations. If the PSP had a problem with foreign teams, the Russians would have been kicked out a long time ago and the TonTons never would have been invited to play in the pro division. You're grasping at straws. Your favorite team had horrifically hot guns and got caught. They were punished and more or less told that the next time it happens will be their last. Accept it and move on.

Last edited by eforce : 10-05-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:22 AM #128
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Originally Posted by Kaolinite View Post
Must be a Dye thing to cheat and deliberately try to cause injury to other players

Doesn't Dye own a majority share in the PSP? PR has not been to good to them lately.
What we gonna start bashing Dye now like the Nation did to SP?
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:23 AM #129
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I think we should wait for an an official statement from them. Granted it probably won't change peoples views or will be accepted as the true reasons but we should give them the benifit of the doubt.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:48 AM #130
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Originally Posted by lettucecheesecake View Post
I think we should wait for an an official statement from them. Granted it probably won't change peoples views or will be accepted as the true reasons but we should give them the benifit of the doubt.
Last time they released a statement they:

1. Made up a fake reg problem that doesn't explain the chronograph readings.
2. Tried to insinuate that they have to work harder than the other Pro teams are therefore owed something.
3. Denied knowing anything about the malfunctions prior to the penalties being assessed; which was proven wrong and why they were given a second round of punishments.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:02 PM #131
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Originally Posted by Deeznuts69 View Post
What we gonna start bashing Dye now like the Nation did to SP?
you forgot to include video proof
[/quote]

I Find it interesting that all the teams getting caught raising FPS (very unsafe, borderline intent to injure) are Dye teams.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:15 PM #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdi 73 View Post
No American team with hot guns ( Cep,Aftershock ) got punished so hard
All of the American teams with 60% of their guns shooting over 320 fps did.

And what, exactly, is "hard" ?

They lost some ranking points and were given a "final warning". Oh, the humanity!

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Old 10-05-2013, 12:24 PM #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
You lost all credibility the moment you attempted to use a wholly irrelevant situation as a distraction to what happened here. There's nothing wrong with supporting your favorite team, but let's be honest here - how many times have you seen players get penalties they deserved, then go back into the pits and lie about their guilt or blame the refs? In every event I've reffed, nearly every player that earned a major for blatant cheating went back to the pits and denied any wrongdoing.

There's no excuse for shooting that hot. The penalty was for severe safety violations. If the PSP had a problem with foreign teams, the Russians would have been kicked out a long time ago and the TonTons never would have been invited to play in the pro division. You're grasping at straws. Your favorite team had horrifically hot guns and got caught. They were punished and more or less told that the next time it happens will be their last. Accept it and move on.
Well first off all the tontons are not blaming the refs .. They say that the gun that shot 352 had a broken oring in the reg.. And you know what ? The psp and the dye tech confirmed it.. So who is turning around the facts ?

Second, my favorite team is not even the tontons.. But they are very good friends of mine, and i live very close to fabrice columbo.. We talked about this incident for hours and hours.. I have known this team for more then 10 years, and i have been at more tournament with them then any other here on pbnation. I even reffed them for quite a while.. So do i believe them or do i believe lthe psp .. Easy one for me.. And if they were cheaters like people are sugesting then i would have seen something in the last 10 years..

Its to bad that you dont speak french.. You should take a look at the 23 minute intervieuw made by 141 with fabrice colombo ( page 4 of this thread. I hope they can do the subtitles quickly) .. He even talks about his meeting with the psp, were basicly the psp said that the tontons put a broken oring into loics reg on purpose..

Thirdly i thinkthat for some raison the psp has a problem with the tontons..
( aftershock coach mike bruno said he had a long lasting freud with the tontons and said so on the webcast of the psp)
I have my own idee about why but i am keeping it to myself for now..

Fourthly, you make it sound as if 4 guys were shooting at 350 fps
And that would be horificaly hot guns.. But 1 guy at 352 with an broken oring in his reg. A second guy at 317, a third guy at 307, and a fourth guy at 303 ?

What makes me suspiscious about all this is the way the psp refuses to either confirm or deny this.. Are these the correct readings as the tonton clailms ? Why was there no flags being thrown by the ref when he was checking the aftershock guns ? Why did the ref chrony the tontons gun twice with a 10 minute interval leaving the guns in the sun ? ( it was the tonton players that put the guns after x minutes into the shade ).. Why did he check the aftershock chrony first, and not the tonton chrony first, since they were checked first..
Why not re-check the aftershock guns a second time ? Why did lane contradict himself between his first statement and his last statement ? And i have a lot more questions on this incident and on the tournament in general..

And since these remain un-answered yes i do believe the tontons much more the the psp or mister lane..

Last edited by Nokia6618 : 10-05-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:30 PM #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
All of the American teams with 60% of their guns shooting over 320 fps did.

And what, exactly, is "hard" ?

They lost some ranking points and were given a "final warning". Oh, the humanity!

NASCAR takes away ranking points for swearing on camera!

- Chris
60% is 3 guns over 320 fps.. There were "only " 1 above 320 fps.. Look at the webcast again.. And then people ask why we think that there is a conspiracy..

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Old 10-05-2013, 12:55 PM #135
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Here's my take. Everyone's replaceable. Another team will fill the gap and other than the ton ton shocker. No one will care or remember the ton tons playing in 2013. Just how the world works these days. Could careless if they stay an play. Or just play millennium.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:21 PM #136
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Here's my take. Everyone's replaceable. Another team will fill the gap and other than the ton ton shocker. No one will care or remember the ton tons playing in 2013. Just how the world works these days. Could careless if they stay an play. Or just play millennium.
And this is exactly the attitude that is going to keep teams from other countries away from the PSP, or any other American league for that matter. Professional caliber teams are few and far between, yet our community treats them like they are a dime a dozen.

I see no reason for European / Asian teams to come here anymore. There is always controversy.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:01 PM #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokia6618 View Post
They say that the gun that shot 352 had a broken oring in the reg..
They were wrong.

Quote:
And you know what ? The psp and the dye tech confirmed it..
No such thing happened.

Quote:
So who is turning around the facts ?
You.

Quote:
Second, my favorite team is not even the tontons.. But they are very good friends of mine, and i live very close to fabrice columbo.. We talked about this incident for hours and hours.. I have known this team for more then 10 years, and i have been at more tournament with them then any other here on pbnation. I even reffed them for quite a while.. So do i believe them or do i believe lthe psp .. Easy one for me.. And if they were cheaters like people are sugesting then i would have seen something in the last 10 years..
PSP should hire you to handle officiating. That way everyone can be sure all of your friends are not cheating.

Quote:
Its to bad that you dont speak french.. You should take a look at the 23 minute intervieuw made by 141 with fabrice colombo ( page 4 of this thread. I hope they can do the subtitles quickly) .. He even talks about his meeting with the psp, were basicly the psp said that the tontons put a broken oring into loics reg on purpose..
That didn't happen.

Quote:
Thirdly i thinkthat for some raison the psp has a problem with the tontons..
The PSP absolutely has a problem with the TonTon's - they entered the field with guns they knew were in violation of the safety limits.

We should all have a problem with that.

Quote:
( aftershock coach mike bruno said he had a long lasting freud with the tontons and said so on the webcast of the psp)
What? A pro player having a feud with another Pro player?

Sounds like good television!

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I have my own idee about why but i am keeping it to myself for now..
So do I.

Quote:
But 1 guy at 352 with an broken oring in his reg.
There were no broken orings.

Quote:
A second guy at 317, a third guy at 307, and a fourth guy at 303 ?
Two more guys were over 320. (Edit: Maybe one was over and one was 319.. but it definitely wasn't 317/307.)

Quote:
What makes me suspiscious about all this is the way the psp refuses to either confirm or deny this..
You can't confirm or deny crazy.

Quote:
Are these the correct readings as the tonton clailms ?
No.

Quote:
Why was there no flags being thrown by the ref when he was checking the aftershock guns ?
Out of flags after chronoing the TonTons guns? (I'm kidding, I have no idea why.)

Who cares anyway? You're not suggesting that 12 refs conspired to chronograph the two teams differently are you? That would be crazy.

Quote:
Why did the ref chrony the tontons gun twice with a 10 minute interval leaving the guns in the sun ?
One reason would be to see if it fell out of a hidden gun mode after not being shot for a certain period of time. (I'm not the ref and I didn't ask so I don't know what his actual reason was.)

And if your gun's velocity changes significantly because it's been in the sun for 10 minutes, it's broken.

Quote:
( it was the tonton players that put the guns after x minutes into the shade ).. Why did he check the aftershock chrony first, and not the tonton chrony first, since they were checked first..
Uh, CAUSE IT WAS CLOSER?!

Quote:
Why not re-check the aftershock guns a second time ?
Because they were a few feet per second over. Who has a hidden gun mode to push the guns to... 305 fps (or less, I don't know the precise numbers offhand.)

Quote:
Why did lane contradict himself between his first statement and his last statement ?
I didn't see that he did. As I recall, the first statement said he didn't think they were trying to cheat, the second statement said they were knowingly breaking the safety standards.

Quote:
And since these remain un-answered yes i do believe the tontons much more the the psp or mister lane..
Ok, now they're answered.

I somehow doubt that has changed your incredibly informed opinion however.


Regardless, TonTon's had the option to play World Cup and chose not to; that choice is obviously entirely theirs.


- Chris

Last edited by raehl : 10-05-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:12 PM #138
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well have read this thread and alot of people have made this about what happened at the last event,i think people forget how much money it take for a team too play these events,even more for an overseas team,when nexus where playing the psp,i talked too some of the guys and it cost them between $100-$150 thousand too play a full season of psp,know in europe we do not get the same support money wise from sponsors as the US teams,this is down too product sales and amount of players etc etc .the only euro team that has the money from a backer is RL end of.
as for the marker issue it does seem to be a dye issue,as it seems to be their markers that are having the problems
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:12 PM #139
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RL is from overseas, they got bumped down to challengers, spanked every team, did quite well in WCO and in my eyes proved they didn't belong in the challengers division. TonTon's could have done the same. Not too long ago RL was 90% russian and overseas. I haven't heard them complain about unfair reffing. Please correct me if i am wrong but it they did get some bias calls, it never lead to such a big deal as this.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:46 PM #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
They were wrong.



No such thing happened.



You.



PSP should hire you to handle officiating. That way everyone can be sure all of your friends are not cheating.



That didn't happen.



The PSP absolutely has a problem with the TonTon's - they entered the field with guns they knew were in violation of the safety limits.

We should all have a problem with that.



What? A pro player having a feud with another Pro player?

Sounds like good television!



So do I.



There were no broken orings.



Two more guys were over 320. (Edit: Maybe one was over and one was 319.. but it definitely wasn't 317/307.)



You can't confirm or deny crazy.



No.



Out of flags after chronoing the TonTons guns? (I'm kidding, I have no idea why.)

Who cares anyway? You're not suggesting that 12 refs conspired to chronograph the two teams differently are you? That would be crazy.



One reason would be to see if it fell out of a hidden gun mode after not being shot for a certain period of time. (I'm not the ref and I didn't ask so I don't know what his actual reason was.)

And if your gun's velocity changes significantly because it's been in the sun for 10 minutes, it's broken.



Uh, CAUSE IT WAS CLOSER?!



Because they were a few feet per second over. Who has a hidden gun mode to push the guns to... 305 fps (or less, I don't know the precise numbers offhand.)



I didn't see that he did. As I recall, the first statement said he didn't think they were trying to cheat, the second statement said they were knowingly breaking the safety standards.



Ok, now they're answered.

I somehow doubt that has changed your incredibly informed opinion however.


Regardless, TonTon's had the option to play World Cup and chose not to; that choice is obviously entirely theirs.


- Chris
Well chris, if i were you i would have first read the other thread on this topic before answering me..
Lane from the psps wrote : " the regs were screwed up" ( pages 30 on that thread in the psp forum ) regarding tonton guns
So you are saying now that that is not true ?.
So who is not telling the truth you or lane ? And why regs since there was "1 gun extreemly hot, 2 very hot and 1 hot" ( again lanes words )

And could you then explain to me how on earth anybody could believe either you or lane on anything on this story since you two can not even get the facts straight..

Until now the only side that has not changed their story is the tontons.. But you guys on the other hand..
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:23 PM #141
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Originally Posted by Nokia6618 View Post
Well chris, if i were you i would have first read the other thread on this topic before answering me..
Lane from the psps wrote : " the regs were screwed up" ( pages 30 on that thread in the psp forum ) regarding tonton guns
So you are saying now that that is not true ?.
So who is not telling the truth you or lane ? And why regs since there was "1 gun extreemly hot, 2 very hot and 1 hot" ( again lanes words )

And could you then explain to me how on earth anybody could believe either you or lane on anything on this story since you two can not even get the facts straight..

Until now the only side that has not changed their story is the tontons.. But you guys on the other hand..
lol. just stop.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:32 PM #142
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60% is 3 guns over 320 fps.. There were "only " 1 above 320 fps.. Look at the webcast again.. And then people ask why we think that there is a conspiracy..
Lol, 3 guns were at least over 311, and they didn't shoot 311, they shot damn near if not more than 320fps. Only one shot over 325fps, and that was the gross penalty that ejected the player.

But still, 60% of the guns were over 311 (and closer to 320). One was a little hot and got a minor penalty (same thing with two of Aftershock's guns), and one of them was good to go.

Oh, and your bull**** about how it's a conspiracy?

ONE player on CEP was shooting over the gross penalty limit of 325. He served his suspension. Two players from Aftershock were shooting between 300 and 311fps, they were awarded their penalty. Nobody held the minor penalty against the TonTons, that stuff happens. However, the 3 guns that were shooting over 311fps are what were broadcasted. The reason the TonTons have it held against them in specific is because it was a MAJORITY of the team, not just one player, and it wasn't a majority of minor penalties, it was a majority major AND over.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:46 PM #143
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Lol, 3 guns were at least over 311, and they didn't shoot 311, they shot damn near if not more than 320fps. Only one shot over 325fps, and that was the gross penalty that ejected the player.

But still, 60% of the guns were over 311 (and closer to 320). One was a little hot and got a minor penalty (same thing with two of Aftershock's guns), and one of them was good to go.

Oh, and your bull**** about how it's a conspiracy?

ONE player on CEP was shooting over the gross penalty limit of 325. He served his suspension. Two players from Aftershock were shooting between 300 and 311fps, they were awarded their penalty. Nobody held the minor penalty against the TonTons, that stuff happens. However, the 3 guns that were shooting over 311fps are what were broadcasted. The reason the TonTons have it held against them in specific is because it was a MAJORITY of the team, not just one player, and it wasn't a majority of minor penalties, it was a majority major AND over.
Wrong it was 2 over 317 and 2 below 310.. The psp made a mistake and will never admit it.. Look again at the webcast..
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:48 PM #144
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Originally Posted by Nokia6618 View Post
Wrong it was 2 over 317 and 2 below 310.. The psp made a mistake and will never admit it..
So you were there? You saw the chronograph and can prove that all eyewitness accounts are wrong?
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:51 PM #145
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You guys are also forgetting that the reg malfunction that the Tontons are hiding behind does not explain why the subsequent shots were increasingly higher than the previous on the marker that read 352.
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Old 10-05-2013, 04:03 PM #146
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So you were there? You saw the chronograph and can prove that all eyewitness accounts are wrong?
I totlalý agree with you, There are 2 people who are the eye witness : the player and the ref.. And in am sure the player can remember the fps he was shooting..

Since these are the numbers the players gave in several intervieuws and press releases..
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Old 10-05-2013, 04:04 PM #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokia6618 View Post
Lane from the psps wrote : " the regs were screwed up" ( pages 30 on that thread in the psp forum ) regarding tonton guns
Yep.

Quote:
So you are saying now that that is not true ?.
Nope. *

Quote:
And could you then explain to me how on earth anybody could believe either you or lane on anything on this story since you two can not even get the facts straight..
Might start with, cause we know the difference between "regs" and "o-rings".

Quote:
Until now the only side that has not changed their story is the tontons.. But you guys on the other hand..
Consistently wrong is still wrong.

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* As in nope, I'm NOT saying it's not true.
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