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Old 10-10-2013, 01:10 AM #337
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:31 AM #338
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:37 AM #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviox View Post
It's funny you say that, because not "everybody" was on the TonTons side. MOST of the PBNation posting I saw were incredibly dense "jokes" like; "Ha, the French always surrender". Really? Grow the **** up. People burned them and AGREED with Chris, which is truly odd. I can't believe people now are all proud of themselves for siding with the TonTons when in the beginning almost every post I saw was leading towards the TonTons being "cheating bastards". Astronomically hypocritical.
Not sure what to say to this. I enjoy it when Chris Raehl is proved wrong. He has very strong opinions on certain matters. This is NOT the reason I enjoy him being wrong. IT is mainly his condescending tone in which he treats others and even when he is wrong he somehow finds a way to make his apology condescending and douchey.
Now we all know this is the internet, but I take offense in some of the things he has said about the Ton Tons.
Everyone has a right to defend themselves, but for someone in a position that he is in, with access to data we might not be privy to, i think it is irresponsible of him to make comments about a player and or a team.
I am sure he will come in here and try to correct my opinion. But then again that is his prerogative.

Ton Tons if you are reading this, I hope you all the success in the world and know that i am sympathetic to what happened to you. As someone what has been on the receiving end of messed up calls and unjust suspensions, you have an ally in me.

I believe the Ton Tons.

Last edited by undrdg : 10-10-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:54 AM #340
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I enjoy it when Chris Raehl is proved wrong. .
Where did that happen?
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:20 PM #341
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Where did that happen?
WHen he said the Ton Tons cheated on purpose . It was stated a couple of pages back.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...8#post79665418

I think he specifically says there was nothing wrong with the Oring.

I believe the ton ton player remarked that none of what Raehl said actually happened and i tend to believe it.
After watching the video i couldn't see Raehl anywhere.
Also, i am curious why we aren't talking about the aftershock players that where shooting 300+ as well.
It just seems very unlikely that any team would cheat this way in the first place.

To be honest, i don't think the punishment fits the "so called crime" to begin with. But like I stated, for someone in his position to comment and point fingers this way, is unethical and unprofessional.

Last edited by undrdg : 10-10-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:41 PM #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undrdg View Post
WHen he said the Ton Tons cheated on purpose . It was stated a couple of pages back.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...8#post79665418

I think he specifically says there was nothing wrong with the Oring.

I believe the ton ton player remarked that none of what Raehl said actually happened and i tend to believe it.

That's fine, it's your right to believe whomever you wish, but I don't personally see anything that has *proven* his opinion wrong.

This is not to say I agree or disagree with anything he's said...or that I agree or disagree with anything the TonTons have said. It's just that we're dealing with a mass of opinions and assertions. None of us have (or will ever really get) proof.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:46 PM #343
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Originally Posted by universal_dave View Post
That's fine, it's your right to believe whomever you wish, but I don't personally see anything that has *proven* his opinion wrong.

This is not to say I agree or disagree with anything he's said...or that I agree or disagree with anything the TonTons have said. It's just that we're dealing with a mass of opinions and assertions. None of us have (or will ever really get) proof.
I think two things where proven.

1. the oring was damaged.
2. he was not there.

those two things right there disqualifies a lot of his "opinions"
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:51 PM #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undrdg View Post
I think two things where proven.

1. the oring was damaged.
2. he was not there.

those two things right there disqualifies a lot of his "opinions"
I haven't seen anything I would consider *proof* of either of those things. There are assertions from people who you may want to consider authoritative, but that's a different kettle of fish. I've seen plenty of assertions from folks I 100% believed turn out in retrospect to be incorrect....for all *kinds* of reasons.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:53 PM #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undrdg View Post
I think two things where proven.

1. the oring was damaged.
2. he was not there.

those two things right there disqualifies a lot of his "opinions"

Raehl certainly was there at the event. Look at your own link. Raehl doesn't even say he was there (which he was). He says the other guy wasn't even in the same country (which he wasn't).

What o-ring in a DM's regulator can cause this kind of velocity issue without a leak? I'll give you a hint: none.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:02 PM #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
Raehl certainly was there at the event. Look at your own link. Raehl doesn't even say he was there (which he was). He says the other guy wasn't even in the same country (which he wasn't).

What o-ring in a DM's regulator can cause this kind of velocity issue without a leak? I'll give you a hint: none.
I disagree, the oring in the regulator if nicked can cause pressure build up. I have dealt with enough regs to know it can happen.

Raehl said he was there and talked to the guy as if implying he was in the middle of the conversation that the ton ton player and the psp officials where having.
Whether he meant he was "there" at the event or "there" at the meeting is what is in question right? I can say I was "there" and mean either in the vicinity, in the area, or in the state. That vagueness and his "insider" knowledge can be construed by many to mean he was present.
My point is that he uses that vagueness to his advantage to make his point.

Here is the phrase i speak of:
"There was nothing wrong with any oring. I know because I was there and personally held the equipment, including the regulator assembly, and personally talked to the tech.

Now, if you want to claim that a team with perfectly functional orings and that had guns shooting 350, 320, 320 and 307 did so entirely on accident, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
"

Now i took it to mean he was there during the incident and had insider information. The ton ton player also thought that. Oring was said to be nicked by the Tech himself. At least according to the information on this thread.
I am not sure why he said he held the assembly and why he said there was nothing wrong with the oring. I know he said there was something wrong with the regulator and not the oring, but why say that, when the psp even goes as far as to accuse the Ton Tons of putting a donut oring in there.

Last edited by undrdg : 10-10-2013 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:06 PM #347
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It sounds like you read something into a post, not that he was proven wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by undrdg View Post
I disagree, the oring in the regulator if nicked can cause pressure build up. I have dealt with enough regs to know it can happen.
Yeah, me too. When I was in charge of Customer Service and QC for the most popular regulators in the world ever at the height of their popularity. Feel free to ask Ninja about my qualifications since they made our regs for us at the time.

So which o-ring in a Dye reg can cause this again without causing a leak?
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:11 PM #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
It sounds like you read something into a post, not that he was proven wrong.




Yeah, me too. When I was in charge of Customer Service and QC for the most popular regulators in the world ever at the height of their popularity. Feel free to ask Ninja about my qualifications since they made our regs for us at the time.

So which o-ring in a Dye reg can cause this again without causing a leak?
The one that is attached to the piston. the regulator seat.


Last edited by undrdg : 10-10-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:14 PM #349
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WHen he said the Ton Tons cheated on purpose . It was stated a couple of pages back.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...8#post79665418
I've been avoiding this thread because a disagreement with one particular person got turned into something else entirely, an outcome for which I certainly get plenty of blame.

But I want to be extremely clear on one point, which I've mentioned in a few posts before but seems to keep being overlooked:

I do not think Tonton's cheated. Cheating is trying to acquire a competitive advantage through illegal means. The issues they had with their equipment, while resulting in unsafe conditions, did not give them any competitive advantage. Cheating is not at all a word I would use to describe the situation.


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Last edited by raehl : 10-10-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:15 PM #350
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The one that is attached to the piston. the regulator seat.
The regulator seat is not an o-ring! And that's exactly what I believe caused the issue as well (and I've said so several times in this thread). But again, that makes Chris right, not wrong. The issue was not a "broken o-ring."
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:19 PM #351
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The regulator seat is not an o-ring! And that's exactly what I believe caused the issue as well (and I've said so several times in this thread). But again, that makes Chris right, not wrong. The issue was not a "broken o-ring."
what do you mean? its a size 16 oring. the piston has a size 16 oring. i have seen this oring be nicked and cause first shot hotness.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:20 PM #352
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A reg seat? No. And certainly not a 16 (which would be bigger than a tank o-ring).
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:20 PM #353
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O-ring arguments aside, I think it's clear that a lot of people are happy to see Raehl pulled down to earth a little bit. He was up here bashing Shawn Walker a few months back during the NPPL fiasco - why undermine someone who's striving to keep the industry you work in alive?

The rest of the industry captains aren't up here fueling their egos, hopefully Chris learns to follow suit.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:26 PM #354
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A reg seat? No. And certainly not a 16 (which would be bigger than a tank o-ring).
maybe im wrong about the size of the oring but i there is one there on the piston that would cause an issue like this
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:37 PM #355
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If I were you I would just stop.






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Old 10-10-2013, 01:50 PM #356
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:58 PM #357
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When did I become a PR person? We're all dudes posting on a forum.

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Anytime you own/run a business and your interacting with people who use your service, PR should be at the forefront of your mind. Not making your point and making Nokia look like a fool. So no, you're not jus "some dude posting on PBN" you're the head of APPA posting on one of the most controversial issues in paintball in a while.... So next time you think you don't contribute to PR think again...
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