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Old 09-04-2013, 04:18 PM #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonTon Press Release View Post
We did NOT ‘cheat’ intentionally, and we do not use cheater modes in our markers to get our victories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP Press Release View Post
One or more members of the team willfully took the field with intention of playing the game while knowing their markers were in excess of allowable speed limits.
According to PSP findings the TonTon's do cheat intentionally with zero regard to opposing teams safety.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:25 PM #653
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Originally Posted by Nokia6618 View Post
Pretty clear how joy division can not win in the nppl..

Pretty c'ear on how tontons get called cheater without cheating..

Must be that american honesty..
If you played against a team where 4 out 5 of their guns were shooting hot, you can honestly say that you would have zero suspicion?
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:32 PM #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
Hi Lane - been a while - hope all is well?

Well, maybe the problem here is the word "cheat" being thrown into the debate by various persons.... and what that word means to different people.

I, obviously, do not contest the fact that one of them had a gun shoot VERY high on the first shot, and I have also stated publicly the guy is an a..hole for entering the field with that gun.... as said previously, there is no way anyone (least of all a Pro) could shoot 352 and not know it.

However, my issue is with people thinking this was an intentional scheme to cheat (i.e. a deliberate action to circumvent the rules to get more kills off the break), when the fact of the matter is probably poorly maintained equipment that they were too unprofessional to get fixed prior to the match.

So, while I have zero issue with them being penalised to jeopardising safety by reckless abandon, I have an issue with the punters in here believing the Tontons (or indeed DYE) were willfully trying to break the rules to gain a better end result.

You know better than most, how quickly such conspiracy theories can take flight in paintball, and I honestly think your press release should have been more precise on exactly that issue

While the rules may treat stupidity and ill will the same, there is a very wide moral gap between the two.
One or more of their players chose to play their game with a gun or guns that they knew were shooting above the limit, meaning that they willfully went outside of the rules. What other definition is there for cheating? The PSP made it as clear as necessary that they went outside the rules...their final goal doesn't matter, only that they chose to knowingly enter the field with a gun ooutside of the rules.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:36 PM #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanR View Post
If you played against a team where 4 out 5 of their guns were shooting hot, you can honestly say that you would have zero suspicion?
Depnds on how hot.. If 4 out of 5 were at 330-350, then yes. And only if i had 0 hot guns myself..
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:31 PM #656
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I'm new to playing paintball and such so forgive me for saying so but, I have to say 4 of 5 markers with reg creep/ ill maintained regs/ whatever...isn't that kinda high odds? Not pointing fingers or calling cheaters, but 4 of 5? Maintain your equipment people. We expect more of pro players
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:21 PM #657
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My personal favorite was always putting itty-bitty small bore paint in the bottom of your loader and feedneck for the initial chrono. Or Vaseline in the barrel. Or unscrewing your barrel slightly at chrono (which the inital press release seemed to allude to).
Small paint at the bottom, lol talk about effort! I've seen lots of barrel unscrewing unfortunately. How's Vaseline in the barrel lower your FPS?
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:34 PM #658
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:37 PM #659
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Who cares
Get shot at 350fps and you will.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:43 PM #660
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Get shot at 350fps and you will.
Especially if you get bunkered.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:46 PM #661
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Bout time PSP clears up this mess. Justice is served!
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:38 PM #662
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Tontons Victim Of Vendetta!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane Wright View Post
. But I think the Tontons player entered the field knowing they were shooting hot because I spoke with the Tontons player and who said they entered the field knowing they were shooting hot.




Me too. Apparently one of us heard what he wanted to hear from his favorite team. Or maybe the player you talked to lied to you. Or maybe they lied to me and wanted to be punished for something they didn't do. Or maybe, I'm lying about what they told me. Of those possibilities, only one seems to have any possibility of reasonable motive.



And if you'd ever introduced yourself to me at one of the 60+ International Professional events I've run, or the 20 plus professional world wide webcasts I've produced, or any of the hundred or so pro tournaments I've played in, you could have introduced yourself to me so that you could teach me...

Condescending psycho babble that's obviously hiding blind patriotism isn't a very good way of getting your points across. Just sayin'.

The regs were screwed up. They knew their regs were screwed up. Instead of having them changed, they chose to shoot clearing shots whereas to not be caught before the point started. They knew that after 3 or 4 shots they would be at or under the limit. They knew that if chonoed during a game while shooting they'd be at or under the limit.

I do not believe they had any intention of gaining a playing advantage. I believe they (negligently) felt the safety risk was marginal as once the started rolling the gun, and based on their intentions of continuing to shoot the guns during the match, the velocity would continue to stay at acceptable levels. That's doesn't mean that I'm OK with the thought process. But, it is my opinion that they wrongly felt like their understanding that only the first few shots being hot somehow negated the dangers of their decision.

I, unlike some others, do not think having the first 3 or 4 shots shooting at high and very inconsistent speeds is an tactical advantage. I also cannot understand why anyone with any sense would risk the penalty to have such a short lived, debatable at best, "advantage". I have talked with a lot of people who's opinions I respect and some of them disagree with my position on the advantages. But, in the end, my opinion is the one that matters. I've earned that position.

I know from the conversation with the players that they took the field with guns that they knew were outside of the limits. It is dangerous. It is arrogant. And it is unacceptable behavior from any team - much less a professional team with 20+ years of experience.

They broke the rules. They have been punished. I believe the punishment fits the circumstance and sincerely believe they've learned a lesson. If that proves to be a wrong belief and they are caught taking the field with guns in excess of the limits, regardless of the cause, regardless of their nationality, regardless of their sponsors, regardless of the opinion of Millennium webcast announcers, brilliant yet modest Danes, anonymous 15 year old forum posters, and/or Baca Loco, they will be permanently removed from PSP events.

Tonton's are a VERY good paintball team. They made mistakes in judgement and are paying the price. They'll come back better and stronger. PSP is one of the very few entities in all of the sport that is growing. Good people work for this company. The people here aren't always right. But we put the time in to try to get as much right as possible. And based on our recent track record, we seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

It happened. It's been dealt with justly. It's over. Let it go. Go bash Obama, SEC Football, or Miley Cyrus. Hate on the things that don't really matter. But stop jumping at the opportunity to tear down the thing we all love. It's dumb.
Do not know how to use properly this forum in order to reply to this pathetic post.

First of all Mr Wright, i must make a few things clear. I can not let you to drag the tontons through the mud like you are doing while you know perfectly they are not cheaters. You know they have only stock DM13 . (everything is out from the box)
They have no break mode, no possibility to modify velocity despite most of pro teams have.
You know perfectly that Loic Voulot (the bad guy) only the first shot was hot (extremely hot) because of a damage o ring in the hyper3 regulator. Everything was stock inside, board, reg, orings.The Hyper 3 black o ring damaged was leaking, increasing the pressure in the gun making it shooting more than 300fps for the first shoot. His gun was not set up at 350 to play. Only the first shot was high depending of the time you wait before to shoot. This is not the result of a cheating behavior but a gun problem.

Tontons are one of the cleanest pro team on the circuit. They work very hard.
They are probably the ‘TonTon’ generation the most talented and dedicated to the sport.
They are true ambassador of it and all people who know them know what I am talking about.

I am not answering this post to defend them because it is not for me acceptable to get 4 guns show on the same game. It is not professional at all.
But according to me they already paid the high price by not been able to play the world cup in pro divison.
Now you want to make an example to show how the great league is looking after the players. Why not but you should be able to do it only if you have proof that they were cheating. You know they were not cheating and also, none of the players told you they were entering the field knowing they were shooting hot. It means no Proof.

So now by sanctionning them we can consider it is a tonton vendetta!
You do not want to see tontons or a French team playing the PSP. Fine. Now we know and be sure they should not come back until a lot of things change in the PSP.

But do you realize that you are sanctioning heavily a team only because of guns show (one of them was very hot, i agree, like the CEP player which was shooting over 400 for probably the same regulator problem) while some are shooting hot at all your events for years using crazy cheating board, modified regulator or simply keys diretcly on the field:
If you want a concrete example just watch this one : (you should easily recognize the 1st PSP player according to your player statistic which is increasing the velocity just before the point with an Allan key!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh9ZN...ature=youtu.be

If you really want to protect your customer you should really sanction the real cheaters.
the one which are playing over 300 fps all the time. I do not need to supply you a list you know perfectly which teams and players i am talking about. Nearly everybody know it at teh PSP and let it happen.

Also, you should try to stop teams fixing games. According to your rule
9.1.11. Every player on any team that intentionally gives up points to an opponent or plots to set scores with opponents will be assessed a major suspension.

I can give you also a good list.
Just an example. The game betwen Damage and Infamous at the MAO which allowed Infamous to play CEP for the relegation game instead of the russion legion!

Do you thing from a team perspective it is fair competition?
What shall I thing when the Captain of a Pro us team tell me at the beginning of the year, that Iron Men and Infamous will never been relegated in the Challenger division and later i see 2 fixed games (out of 4) in the same group at the MAO event!

Mr Wright the only think you are correct, the league is growing and you might do something right !
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:53 PM #663
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:58 PM #664
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The only thing that surprised me about this is that the PSP doesn't chrono check every gun every game. PSP if you would simply take a minute to chrono everyone this wouldn't be an issue. This is "professional" paintball why not make each player chrono both entering and leaving the field.

I hate cheaters but I don't get how the PSP can take points away from the Ton Tons if the PSP weren't even making them chrono enough to be able to prove they were shooting hot the previous points. It's no surprise players are going to try to cheat I think the PSP needs to rethink how often they check guns, no offense.

Watch enough paintball videos and you will see players from most of the "professional" teams wiping hits etc. I have seen some crazy wipes caught on video and don't see a huge forum uproar. It's funny that there is a huge thread of people arguing about a completely avoidable issue.

Paintball drama is a big part of why I stopped playing for a decade.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:22 PM #665
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90% (or more) of the time every gun is chronoed before each point........

Also, wiping a hit is not putting others at risk of injury. That's the point here. It is a safety issue. Safety is #1. Paintball drama pushed you out of the sport, but you don't mind jumping back into it and shell out your 2 cents.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:08 PM #666
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90% (or more) of the time every gun is chronoed before each point........
Ok but from what I've read it sounds like they were shooting hot long before they were caught so why did the reffs not catch them earlier?

Quote:
Also, wiping a hit is not putting others at risk of injury. That's the point here. It is a safety issue. Safety is #1.
I agree that safety is number one. I'm not disagreeing with you, but most of the arguing on here is about cheating, ie the advantage gained for lanning.

Quote:
Paintball drama pushed you out of the sport, but you don't mind jumping back into it and shell out your 2 cents.
I'm not being dramatic though, I'm just trying to have a discussion not an argument.

I have actually been very impressed with how nice and drama free the people I've met at my new local field are. Seems like fewer people play nowadays but they are mostly people that are more mature about the sport. Sadly the internet is a different story haha.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:40 PM #667
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They kept the guns shooting legally until after the point started. It isn't something that can be caught easily. They were chronoed all day I'm sure.

As for the rest, point taken. I agree with the internet drama and apologize for assuming.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:43 PM #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becauseiworthit View Post
derp derp derp
I'm not going to quote your actual post because I don't want to bring that level of foolishness to the attention of anyone who missed it the first time.

Let's think this through, shall we? Nice and slow.

If you are a xenophobic prick who wants the TonTons and any other French team to stay the hell away from your league, do you:

A. Invite the TonTons to play in the PSP Pro division.
B. Catch the TonTons shooting 352 with 4 hot guns, and then pass on the opportunity to ban them without stirring up a public outrage.
C. Refuse to let the TonTons register for any events in the first place.

You caught him. Lane clearly has it out for the TonTons.

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Old 09-04-2013, 09:54 PM #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B the V View Post
90% (or more) of the time every gun is chronoed before each point........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Attack_Skills View Post
Ok but from what I've read it sounds like they were shooting hot long before they were caught so why did the reffs not catch them earlier?
I believe that it has been stated a few times throughout this whole thread, that most/everybody would shoot a few balls into the ground before putting their guns over any chronograph.

Quote:
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Also, wiping a hit is not putting others at risk of injury. That's the point here. It is a safety issue. Safety is #1. Paintball drama pushed you out of the sport, but you don't mind jumping back into it and shell out your 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Attack_Skills View Post
I agree that safety is number one. I'm not disagreeing with you, but most of the arguing on here is about cheating, ie the advantage gained for lanning.
I believe that is happening because their supporters are trying to imply that they didn't cheat because there was no perceived advantage to be gained. The truth of the matter though, is that they seemed to have knowingly stepped on the field with equipment that was not legal...whether their was an advantage gained or not, they broke the rules. That is the definition of cheating. There are too many people on both sides of this issue trying to turn it into something that it is not, and that is the worst part about this whole thing.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:57 PM #670
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PSP bringing the hammer down.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:32 PM #671
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Just on a quick side note, did anyone happen to see the post on Facebook about which pro team would win in the match between Damage and Impact BEFORE the semi's had even been played? It was around 8-9am on finals Sunday and put up by a major paintball company. I can't find it for the life of me though in any of their old postings.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:36 PM #672
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Pics or shens.
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