Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-04-2013, 12:30 PM #631
RyanR
accuracy by volume
 
RyanR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 416
 has been a member for 10 years
RyanR is one of the top 1000 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane Wright View Post
The regs were screwed up. They knew their regs were screwed up. Instead of having them changed, they chose to shoot clearing shots whereas to not be caught before the point started. They knew that after 3 or 4 shots they would be at or under the limit. They knew that if chonoed during a game while shooting they'd be at or under the limit.

I do not believe they had any intention of gaining a playing advantage. I believe they (negligently) felt the safety risk was marginal as once the started rolling the gun, and based on their intentions of continuing to shoot the guns during the match, the velocity would continue to stay at acceptable levels. That's doesn't mean that I'm OK with the thought process. But, it is my opinion that they wrongly felt like their understanding that only the first few shots being hot somehow negated the dangers of their decision.

I, unlike some others, do not think having the first 3 or 4 shots shooting at high and very inconsistent speeds is an tactical advantage. I also cannot understand why anyone with any sense would risk the penalty to have such a short lived, debatable at best, "advantage". I have talked with a lot of people who's opinions I respect and some of them disagree with my position on the advantages. But, in the end, my opinion is the one that matters. I've earned that position.

I know from the conversation with the players that they took the field with guns that they knew were outside of the limits. It is dangerous. It is arrogant. And it is unacceptable behavior from any team - much less a professional team with 20+ years of experience.

They broke the rules. They have been punished. I believe the punishment fits the circumstance and sincerely believe they've learned a lesson. If that proves to be a wrong belief and they are caught taking the field with guns in excess of the limits, regardless of the cause, regardless of their nationality, regardless of their sponsors, regardless of the opinion of Millennium webcast announcers, brilliant yet modest Danes, anonymous 15 year old forum posters, and/or Baca Loco, they will be permanently removed from PSP events.

Tonton's are a VERY good paintball team. They made mistakes in judgement and are paying the price. They'll come back better and stronger. PSP is one of the very few entities in all of the sport that is growing. Good people work for this company. The people here aren't always right. But we put the time in to try to get as much right as possible. And based on our recent track record, we seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

It happened. It's been dealt with justly. It's over. Let it go. Go bash Obama, SEC Football, or Miley Cyrus. Hate on the things that don't really matter. But stop jumping at the opportunity to tear down the thing we all love. It's dumb.
TL;DR?
They neglected to keep their guns under 300fps
PSP has given them the benefit of the doubt; they didnt do it for an advantage
Bottom line is they broke the rules and were delt with accordingly

Dont start with swelling paint, cheater boards, pixie dust etc etc. Their regs were broken, resulting in an increase of FPS and they knew it.
__________________
"I never thought we'd have to check the guns for steroids" - Todd Martinez

IOG

Last edited by RyanR : 09-04-2013 at 12:36 PM.
RyanR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 09-04-2013, 12:32 PM #632
edek1
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Good old Europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
Read the press release. No further penalties or suspensions. They lost seed points in a season that already has podium positions clinched beyond their reach and were told they're welcome to play again if the hot guns don't come back. The PSP has no benefit in kicking them out... only a $15,000 loss in season entry fees.
They had all their points from the tournament taken pushing them further down the ranking. And good luck getting sponsors when you're that low especially when the league basically calls you a cheater and punishes you more, further reinforcing the negative publicity they got for the incident.

I did come off as a dick and i'm sorry, fans are usually hotheaded when it comes to their teams.
edek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 12:44 PM #633
Nelby2388
Metrowest Bulldogs #28
 
Nelby2388's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Shore, MA
Nelby2388 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Nelby2388 has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Was hoping too see a stiffer penalty
__________________
Formerly played for: Steeel Reserve, Mass Assassins, New England Regulators
Originally posted by paintballguru92: hey guys...some advice, why dont WE focus on getting better instead of the guns we use..."
Nelby2388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 12:47 PM #634
Nokia6618
 
 
Nokia6618's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Annual Supporting Member
Nokia6618 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane Wright View Post
Nick --

I have no idea how anyone else in the world would think a team entered the field knowing they were shooting hot. But I think the Tontons player entered the field knowing they were shooting hot because I spoke with the Tontons player and who said they entered the field knowing they were shooting hot.

So I am someone who agrees with your 3 points and also thinks they entered the field knowing their guns were hot. And I doubt there is any question that I understand the game at the very highest level.



Me too. Apparently one of us heard what he wanted to hear from his favorite team. Or maybe the player you talked to lied to you. Or maybe they lied to me and wanted to be punished for something they didn't do. Or maybe, I'm lying about what they told me. Of those possibilities, only one seems to have any possibility of reasonable motive.



And if you'd ever introduced yourself to me at one of the 60+ International Professional events I've run, or the 20 plus professional world wide webcasts I've produced, or any of the hundred or so pro tournaments I've played in, you could have introduced yourself to me so that you could teach me...

Condescending psycho babble that's obviously hiding blind patriotism isn't a very good way of getting your points across. Just sayin'.

The regs were screwed up. They knew their regs were screwed up. Instead of having them changed, they chose to shoot clearing shots whereas to not be caught before the point started. They knew that after 3 or 4 shots they would be at or under the limit. They knew that if chonoed during a game while shooting they'd be at or under the limit.

I do not believe they had any intention of gaining a playing advantage. I believe they (negligently) felt the safety risk was marginal as once the started rolling the gun, and based on their intentions of continuing to shoot the guns during the match, the velocity would continue to stay at acceptable levels. That's doesn't mean that I'm OK with the thought process. But, it is my opinion that they wrongly felt like their understanding that only the first few shots being hot somehow negated the dangers of their decision.

I, unlike some others, do not think having the first 3 or 4 shots shooting at high and very inconsistent speeds is an tactical advantage. I also cannot understand why anyone with any sense would risk the penalty to have such a short lived, debatable at best, "advantage". I have talked with a lot of people who's opinions I respect and some of them disagree with my position on the advantages. But, in the end, my opinion is the one that matters. I've earned that position.

I know from the conversation with the players that they took the field with guns that they knew were outside of the limits. It is dangerous. It is arrogant. And it is unacceptable behavior from any team - much less a professional team with 20+ years of experience.

They broke the rules. They have been punished. I believe the punishment fits the circumstance and sincerely believe they've learned a lesson. If that proves to be a wrong belief and they are caught taking the field with guns in excess of the limits, regardless of the cause, regardless of their nationality, regardless of their sponsors, regardless of the opinion of Millennium webcast announcers, brilliant yet modest Danes, anonymous 15 year old forum posters, and/or Baca Loco, they will be permanently removed from PSP events.

Tonton's are a VERY good paintball team. They made mistakes in judgement and are paying the price. They'll come back better and stronger. PSP is one of the very few entities in all of the sport that is growing. Good people work for this company. The people here aren't always right. But we put the time in to try to get as much right as possible. And based on our recent track record, we seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

It happened. It's been dealt with justly. It's over. Let it go. Go bash Obama, SEC Football, or Miley Cyrus. Hate on the things that don't really matter. But stop jumping at the opportunity to tear down the thing we all love. It's dumb.
Lane,

Thank you for clearefying the exact thoughts of the psp.. As for the personal attacks, i am sorry to say that i dont see were the " blind patriotism " comes in
I am not even french.. As for the different things we heard from the players : i left a message on loics cell phone and will get his info on this..

As for the punisment, you should read the thread a little : i said that if the psp punishes the tontons for neglecting their guns, then i am 100% for that.. But if anybody says that they intentionaly cheated, then i would like to see the proof.
That means that i need more then some words, hear say, or opinion by any keyboard commando out here..

Ps i have nothing against the psp, i actually love the world cup, and have been there 6 years in a row. And i love paintball, but if you have read the last 5 pages, the bashing was against me and not by me... So blame hollande, irak, but i will not have anybody say that they cheated intentionaly..

Last edited by Nokia6618 : 09-04-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Nokia6618 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 12:56 PM #635
edek1
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Good old Europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane Wright View Post
Damn. You figured it out. I wish you'd have caught us red handed before I spent 45 minutes figuring out how to quote 2 different posts in a reply.
Man i have nothing but respect for you and your league but you can't say the teams that are in direct competition with the TON TON wouldn't love if they were gone?
edek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:04 PM #636
ar2b8
 
 
ar2b8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
ar2b8 plays in the PSP
ar2b8 is an NCPA player
ar2b8 is an NCPA National Champion
ar2b8 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by edek1 View Post
Man i have nothing but respect for you and your league but you can't say the teams that are in direct competition with the TON TON wouldn't love if they were gone?
Who would benefit from the ton tons not playing psp events?
__________________
No Limit
Empire - PMI - Evil - Miller and Sons Construction
Reflections Tannery - Sudden Impact - Area 52 - CIA

Central Illinois Army
No Limit Sponsorship Sale
The Hopper Guy
ar2b8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:06 PM #637
eforce
Factory PB
 
eforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Annual Supporting Member
eforce is a Moderator
 has been a member for 10 years
eforce plays in the PSP
eforce is an NCPA player
Quote:
Originally Posted by edek1 View Post
Man i have nothing but respect for you and your league but you can't say the teams that are in direct competition with the TON TON wouldn't love if they were gone?
They've won what, 4 matches in the pro division? Give it a rest. If you weren't so blinded by your emotions you would easily see that the TonTons would have been booted if the league had it out for them. There's nothing wrong with supporting your favorite teams but don't make those kind of unfounded accusations toward the guy that devotes an enormous part of his life to putting on national events.
eforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:22 PM #638
demons_paintball
*French Ninja*
 
demons_paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canada*MTL*
demons_paintball plays in the PSP
demons_paintball posts videos on PbNation
demons_paintball plays in the APPA D3 division
what about the guy from cep shooting 402?
__________________
Montréal

Rangers
demons_paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:35 PM #639
Dogg3
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningPlaydoh View Post
On one hand I can't believe the Ton Tons would be stupid enough to do this intentionally. On the other hand, people were saying they were shooting hot for a good while.
This is pretty much what I'm stuck on. They had to know the chances of getting caught were very, very high. They also had to know when they got their guns tested what it would look like. I guess I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was just negligent.

I still can't say I'm completely convinced, but at the end of the day, this really doesn't affect me.
Dogg3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:38 PM #640
sparta0703
skemp roid rage
 
sparta0703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: north west
 has been a member for 10 years
sparta0703 plays in the PSP
sparta0703 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
sparta0703 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeperLord View Post
Just like the russian police
BEST REFERENCE EVER
__________________
Lumberjacks
sparta0703 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:41 PM #641
vman722
~CEP~
 
vman722's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ATL
vman722 is a Professional paintball player
vman722 plays in the PSP
vman722 plays in the APPA Pro division
Quote:
Originally Posted by demons_paintball View Post
what about the guy from cep shooting 402?
What about it? We had one of our backup guns reg malfunction as we have already stated and didn't realize it till after the match. Our player was given a 3 game suspension and served it. The end. Why do people feel the need to blow this further out of proportion? Things like this happen and unfortunately for our player it took too long to realize.
__________________
Peter Velardi
Chattanooga CEP #4
DYE Paintball---DYE CG Paint---Minor League Paintball
vman722 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:44 PM #642
dcbiii
Mega Moderator
 
dcbiii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Annual Supporting Member
dcbiii is a Mega Moderator
You cannot have a dwell ramping board in a DM bolt system. Some OG knowledge for you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlipFlops View Post
The DM4 cannot ramp the velocity due to how the bolt is designed. The dump chamber is completely emptied every shot, so increasing the dwell time does not increase velocity. The only way to increase velocity is to turn up the inline regulator.

There are NO ramping velocity DM4 chips/boards out there. It is impossible due to the design of the gun.
Source: FlipFlops is the owner\president of Tadao, Will. Will used to be the team tech for Trauma, who was always accused of having the most gnar cheater boards in the game. While Will did play some pretty hysterical tricks over the years (primarily on Rob Staudinger), he would never do anything unsafe (not that people didn't ask for it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
That's honestly what gets me. How did they not get caught earlier with the basic chrono measures? And how did they think they wouldn't get caught if their guns were simply creeping or even worse set too high?
My personal favorite was always putting itty-bitty small bore paint in the bottom of your loader and feedneck for the initial chrono. Or Vaseline in the barrel. Or unscrewing your barrel slightly at chrono (which the inital press release seemed to allude to).
__________________
Gone, but never forgotten.
dcbiii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:53 PM #643
BradJohnson
 
 
BradJohnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
hammer.
BradJohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:19 PM #644
Texasmetalhead
Arizona
 
Texasmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Hell of the Lower 48, Az
Texasmetalhead is for the Gunfight
Texasmetalhead plays in the APPA beginner division
I wonder what probationary terms will include until Nov 1st 2014.
Texasmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:20 PM #645
Nick Brockdorff
 
 
Nick Brockdorff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Nick Brockdorff posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane Wright View Post
Nick --

I have no idea how anyone else in the world would think a team entered the field knowing they were shooting hot. But I think the Tontons player entered the field knowing they were shooting hot because I spoke with the Tontons player and who said they entered the field knowing they were shooting hot.

So I am someone who agrees with your 3 points and also thinks they entered the field knowing their guns were hot. And I doubt there is any question that I understand the game at the very highest level.
Hi Lane - been a while - hope all is well?

Well, maybe the problem here is the word "cheat" being thrown into the debate by various persons.... and what that word means to different people.

I, obviously, do not contest the fact that one of them had a gun shoot VERY high on the first shot, and I have also stated publicly the guy is an a..hole for entering the field with that gun.... as said previously, there is no way anyone (least of all a Pro) could shoot 352 and not know it.

However, my issue is with people thinking this was an intentional scheme to cheat (i.e. a deliberate action to circumvent the rules to get more kills off the break), when the fact of the matter is probably poorly maintained equipment that they were too unprofessional to get fixed prior to the match.

So, while I have zero issue with them being penalised to jeopardising safety by reckless abandon, I have an issue with the punters in here believing the Tontons (or indeed DYE) were willfully trying to break the rules to gain a better end result.

You know better than most, how quickly such conspiracy theories can take flight in paintball, and I honestly think your press release should have been more precise on exactly that issue

While the rules may treat stupidity and ill will the same, there is a very wide moral gap between the two.
__________________
I'm brilliant!....... and modest


Last edited by Nick Brockdorff : 09-04-2013 at 02:23 PM.
Nick Brockdorff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:25 PM #646
Texasmetalhead
Arizona
 
Texasmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Hell of the Lower 48, Az
Texasmetalhead is for the Gunfight
Texasmetalhead plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by vman722 View Post
What about it? We had one of our backup guns reg malfunction as we have already stated and didn't realize it till after the match. Our player was given a 3 game suspension and served it. The end. Why do people feel the need to blow this further out of proportion? Things like this happen and unfortunately for our player it took too long to realize.
I don't think many people know/knew of that as the cause of the main problem (for CEP). I remember talking about it for the tontons, but I never knew that was the reason why that CEP player was shooting hot. I also think that due to tontons' hot guns, the coincidence of a CEP player shooting hot sounded like the icing on the cake of the whole situation.
Texasmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:28 PM #647
John
Straight shooter with upper management written all over him.
 
John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: STL
Annual Supporting Member
John is playing at Living Legends VII
John has been published on the PbNation Youtube Channel
John is a PbNation video producer
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbiii View Post
My personal favorite was always putting itty-bitty small bore paint in the bottom of your loader and feedneck for the initial chrono. Or Vaseline in the barrel. Or unscrewing your barrel slightly at chrono (which the inital press release seemed to allude to).
It sounds like the PSP believes it was reg creep. And the TonTons were just firing several clearing shots right before chronoing every time. That's why the refs took their guns out of their hands, so they couldn't fire the clearing shots first. That would also explain why one or more of the guns continued to rise after not being shot for a longer period. The multiple clearing shots every single time by almost every player was also probably some of the "suspicious behavior" we keep hearing about.
__________________
Your questions are answered in the PbNation FAQ. Ask a Mod.
We deserve better villains.
"I have not seen an automag shot in anger in 10 years." Tom Cole
John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:31 PM #648
J03LT3H
Team Capital Offense
 
J03LT3H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA
J03LT3H owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
J03LT3H owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
J03LT3H owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
J03LT3H supports Pev's Paintball
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane Wright View Post
Damn. You figured it out. I wish you'd have caught us red handed before I spent 45 minutes figuring out how to quote 2 different posts in a reply.
HAHAHAHAHA
__________________
Signature
J03LT3H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:34 PM #649
p8ntbllfool
 
 
p8ntbllfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado
p8ntbllfool plays in the PSP
p8ntbllfool plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
.
Other major sports should take notice. The PSP is correctly handling this situation, with the sign of politics and money not influencing their decision. Seeing other sports and leagues like the MLB have the most ridiculous debates over player suspensions for PEDs(AROD) and other violations of rules is so sad and really brings the sport down. I am very proud of the PSP for being fair and assertive. This sport can only continue to grow if it remains as safe and legitimate as our players have been making it thus far, but it only takes a few to ruin it for many.
__________________


FLORIDA/COLORADO/TENNESSEE PAINTBALL
p8ntbllfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:56 PM #650
Apollo_Kyle
 
 
Apollo_Kyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by edek1 View Post
They had all their points from the tournament taken pushing them further down the ranking. And good luck getting sponsors when you're that low especially when the league basically calls you a cheater and punishes you more, further reinforcing the negative publicity they got for the incident.

I did come off as a dick and i'm sorry, fans are usually hotheaded when it comes to their teams.
Pretty clear how Ton Tons win in Europe....
Apollo_Kyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 03:11 PM #651
Nokia6618
 
 
Nokia6618's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Annual Supporting Member
Nokia6618 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo_Kyle View Post
Pretty clear how Ton Tons win in Europe....
Pretty clear how joy division can not win in the nppl..

Pretty c'ear on how tontons get called cheater without cheating..

Must be that american honesty..

Last edited by Nokia6618 : 09-04-2013 at 03:20 PM.
Nokia6618 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump