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Old 08-16-2013, 11:47 AM #22
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...ZBX_story.html

The idea of a single human species evolving in Africa is asinine. What is more likely to be true is that there were multiple species of humans: Sapiens, Neanderthals, something with a D and something starting with an H. Waves of migration no doubt occurred, but I don't think the OROOA is anything but popular mythology at this point. I'm going to go ahead and dismiss this point about the possession of neanderthal DNA being "impur" as untrue.

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Old 08-16-2013, 12:52 PM #23
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Quote:
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So far, I have not heard any theory from a theoritical physicist to explain how that could occur.
This doesn't mean that god did it.

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They seemed to be stumped about that moment of creation. They just might have to concede it was an act of God until they can come up with a viable explanation.
OR..... we can concede that we just don't know, and outright dismiss the concept of a god. Then with enough research and dedication, we might one day be able to explain "how that could occur."
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:19 PM #24
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We don't know is a better answer than positing a purely mechanical universe. Some laws were responsible for a big explosion. In order for those laws to exist, they must have been created by some other laws. On and on down a never ending chain of physical causality.

What's more interesting to me is that theistic cosmology posits a top down vision of the cosmos while atheistic cosmology posits a bottom up cosmology; yet both converge at the same point at two different ends: what created God/X physical law.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:36 PM #25
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Define what you mean (and are implying) by describing the Universe as "purely mechanical" and I might agree.

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I'm going to go ahead and dismiss this point about the possession of neanderthal DNA being "impur" as untrue.
Don't take my attempts to rustle his jimmies too seriously.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:02 PM #26
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Ooops, for some reason I thought it was boom master who said it. That's what I get for viewing PBN on a small phone. I retract my statement regarding that one.

Mechanical IE no metaphysical or divine sub strata. Purely physical I suppose? Maybe mechanistic would be a better term to have used?


The convergence:

If natural law appeared in an instant with this big explosion, then what bigger natural laws caused that event to occur?

If everything has a creator, and the creator of the universe, its laws, and all matter is God; then who created God?

Entropy rules out the possibility of an infinite universe. So we end up at the same point from two opposed perspectives. Infinite stack much?

Neoplatonism, Taoism, some schools of Vedic thought, Whatever sects use the Kabbalah, and Esoteric Forms of Catholicism/Orthodox get around this problem of causality by positing the existence of acausal systems usually in the form of emanations proceeding from a Godhead of sorts. Though taoists aren't sure what to call it, so they just call it tao

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Old 08-16-2013, 07:18 PM #27
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Physicists seem to feel it's some single, fundamental symmetry.

The problem with calling something mechanical in colloquial language is that it doesn't often bring to mind the complexity that arises very quickly in even simple mechanical systems. No appreciation for the fundamentally unknowable.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:36 PM #28
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I know, however I don't have a better term. I'm not the most sophisticated person by stretch.

Plato inherited an equation from pythagoras to describe a fundamental symmetry which is something to the effect of 1/phi^-3 (reduced form of something longer). Geometrically, it forms a special isosceles triangle with values of 1, phi, phi and then a verticle of some sort equal to phi-3. The equation is found in his divided line allegory. The triangle fits right into it as well, if you draw it out. With that median verticle thingy intersecting one of the divisions on the line. The golden ratio spiral curve dealy intersects with the line and the triangle as well in perfect proportion.

Not sure what to make out of all that, but it's damned interesting.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:55 PM #29
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I wouldn't go any further with it than "math is fun". Unless you have real reason to.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:57 PM #30
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A human is a speck of dust on the earth. The sun is a speck of dust compared to a much larger sun. The solar system a speck of dust in this galaxy. This galaxy a speck of dust in 14.7 billion light years of the known universe and yet someone can actually say they have it all figured out. Damn. My brain does not have the capacity to help out with any of this discussion. I wish it did . I am sure what happened is neither of what anyone has said; but if the raw truth were given, it would come off as completely insane or revolutionary.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:17 PM #31
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I wouldn't go any further with it than "math is fun". Unless you have real reason to.
There's a reason I don't remember all the details.
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Old 08-17-2013, 01:55 AM #32
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This doesn't mean that god did it.
I think here may be an example of a cause of the original problem. The goal, getting someone to accept the observed fact of evolution. The problem, too often people try to first change that person's religion. This does not work. Ever. It's like trying to teach someone calculus by first converting them to Hinduism. A total waste of time.

The key is to explain the point in a way that meshes with their existing faith, not to blindly butt your head against it.

For example...

God created everything (point of individual faith and as such beyond dispute to that individual)
Evolution is a thing (as per rigorous scientific study)
Therefore God created evolution.
To deny evolution is to deny God's work.
To deny God's work is to deny God.
So, disbelieve in evolution and you become a delusional type of atheist.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:46 AM #33
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Man, you have a lot of trouble getting **** right.

In the modern day, we have access to a service called Google. It's called a search engine, and it goes out to the web and creates big indexes of a relatively small portion of the web, but enough to search effectively. Using Google, I was able to find services such as:

http://dna.ancestry.com/?s_kwcid=gen...o _sch=Search

http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/in...token=__NONE__

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/n...sting+ancestry

https://www.23andme.com/

Have fun!
What does that have to do with anything that I said?

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People are still using the Out of Africa model? Dang.
Yeah, a lot of scientists do. Why are you critiquing it? Loads of evidence for that model.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:32 AM #34
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Neanderthals into monkeys? wut
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:44 PM #35
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Neanderthals into monkeys? wut
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:03 AM #36
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:55 PM #37
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If you gays all think that monkey like things evolved into humans, then why couldn't humans evolve back into apes? Some people already have begun doing it.





going backwards?
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:59 PM #38
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I thought Asians are smarter and South Koreans benefit from a ridiculous prep school culture. Given the recent FOB comments I'm going to guess your patents are poor or you're young?
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:00 PM #39
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:08 PM #40
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Evidence

The evidence is all around us, look at a painting you know there was a painter look at a building you know there was a builder.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:35 PM #41
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The evidence is all around us, look at a painting you know there was a painter look at a building you know there was a builder.
Look at things made by humans... they were made by humans!

Wonderful evidence.

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If you gays all think that monkey like things evolved into humans, then why couldn't humans evolve back into apes? Some people already have begun doing it.

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x3wBpe3lSs0/TmqjFVY9BTI/AAAAAAAABxA/OhcVBF8_kv8/s400/1%2BRodney-Rhines.jmg]

[img]http://blog.targethealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/20130121-8.jmg]

going backwards?
Can you provide me any evidence of a species evolving in to another species, then back to the original?

You do understand the term common ancestor, right?
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:35 PM #42
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Who needs God when you have Omega Particles?
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