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Old 08-13-2013, 08:29 AM #211
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Looks wonderful. I have been up and way down on my invasion and was about done with alien but this screams second chance. It's all about the shot though. The bolt does not worry me but I need efficiency and smooth shot. I was leaning lv1 for next year but if this is comparable shot quality to that beauty, I'm in. I have a soft spot for unique markers and less common is a pro to me.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:29 AM #212
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Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
That actually looks nice, however I usually have some salt to throw around with my limited praise.

Why go with grips unique to the marker, but a board used by someone else?
There are barely any aftermarket grips available anymore, not having a industry standard or atleast some companies sharing molds only ends up hurting the customer in the long run.

Secondly, is the gripframe rounded off or is it a run of the mill blocky spurlock design?

The last grain is at the exposed bolt and o-rings, sand and such will eat that thing up!
I don't agree with everything but i do with the Bolt so exposed wow!!!!!!
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:58 AM #213
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Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
Great looking marker aside from the exposed bolt. I cannot get over that no matter how hard I try from both an aesthetic and functional standpoint.
Because many (most) don't read much of the post in front of them - I will say this a few times.
1. Old School'ers all remember many of the Cockers had lots of cut's exposing the bolts - never a problem.
2. Somewhere it got put out that Bolts "should" be sealed. Not true - almost all double stacked have exposed bolts - just look in front of the pin when the bolt is back - just that is more hidden. If the bolt is open at the top it's open. Bolts have been open for 20 years - it's OK.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:06 AM #214
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Jack, people are just not used to having a bolt THAT much exposed. Compared to other guns, its much more so than everything else. Change worries people, but I believe this will be fine for sure.

Very excited for this Jack. Any word on what type of board it will be? And I am assuming the trigger is going to be a critical like every other Alien, correct?
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:16 AM #215
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:26 AM #216
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Reminds me of an Impulse.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:28 AM #217
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Now that's a sexy render.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:37 AM #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlarson11 View Post
The only 'Deception' coming from Alien is every one of their marker performance claims...
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianevil09 View Post
MIGHT BE VERY NICE. Axe only competitor is a Tippmann. They suck
Just going to bunch these two together here. #trollpigpen

Looking forward to this gun! Love that color scheme and the Invasion has made me a believer. And the trigger on the invasion was/is the nicest I have ever personally used.

Also, not only is the Crossover a solid competetor, but Etek 4 is also in that price range. And I would take either over an Axe
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:31 AM #219
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Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
Because many (most) don't read much of the post in front of them - I will say this a few times.
1. Old School'ers all remember many of the Cockers had lots of cut's exposing the bolts - never a problem.
2. Somewhere it got put out that Bolts "should" be sealed. Not true - almost all double stacked have exposed bolts - just look in front of the pin when the bolt is back - just that is more hidden. If the bolt is open at the top it's open. Bolts have been open for 20 years - it's OK.
Cockers that had those huge cut out was a novelty and only few bought them. Problem or no problem, I don't like it. I would think you want the Deception to be more successful.

Everyone here likes the Deception, but many have indicated dislike for the exposed bolt. Covering it up will make "everyone" happy.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:33 AM #220
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^ no argument about the invasion trigger being amazing and I hope this stays like that, looks great.

One thing I would like to see but not a gripe at all is if the barrel had a unique porting design, such as the invasion prototype arrows or better yet go with DNA style crossing spirals. Would be hot!
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:36 AM #221
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Originally Posted by BigPumpPlayer View Post
^ no argument about the invasion trigger being amazing and I hope this stays like that, looks great.

One thing I would like to see but not a gripe at all is if the barrel had a unique porting design, such as the invasion prototype arrows or better yet go with DNA style crossing spirals. Would be hot!
Think KEE has the SP patent on spiral porting.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:39 AM #222
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Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
Think KEE has the SP patent on spiral porting.
On unidirectional spiral porting.

The only issue I see with dual direction spiral porting is that it would be a ***** to aesthetically balance out. I see either too much space between them that you can't really tell what it is without knowing beforehand, or not enough space so that it looks jumbled and you can't really tell what it is without knowing beforehand.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:39 AM #223
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About how much do you think its gonna cost?
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:48 AM #224
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This looks really exciting. I love using unorthodox gear and this fits the bill for sure. The field I'm at now absolutely everyone shoots bob long or dp, it would be great so show up with something off the wall that gets the job done. Still want to know more about the not poppet system though. Good work so far and looking forward to seeing more
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:03 AM #225
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I've been an Alien believer since 06. Loved the Invasion so much I bought two (one as a backup). It's my favorite Poppit to shoot over the rest of the field and I have Ego10, Ego11, GSR11, GSR12, DP Fusion FX, Etek.

All that being said, so far LV1 has been surprisingly different to shoot compared to any other Poppit and the Vanquish is like a better Luxe (IMO of course) but I am excited for the Deception in terms of some possible innovations in the market of markers.

The bolt does not bother me in the least but I'm an old schooler that understands what Jack is saying about older markers and we just played regardless of rain, snow, sand, etc. It worked out fine 99% of the time.

Hoping for some interesting colors like this one and want to see an Alien stock with LCD please.

Jack, maybe a hint if it will be out in time to be under my Christmas Tree this year?
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:12 AM #226
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I wish Jack accepted private messages so I could bombard him with questions about the gun.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:44 AM #227
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I wish Jack accepted private messages so I could bombard him with questions about the gun.
Just post them here. He's been good about answering.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:03 PM #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
Because many (most) don't read much of the post in front of them - I will say this a few times.
1. Old School'ers all remember many of the Cockers had lots of cut's exposing the bolts - never a problem.
2. Somewhere it got put out that Bolts "should" be sealed. Not true - almost all double stacked have exposed bolts - just look in front of the pin when the bolt is back - just that is more hidden. If the bolt is open at the top it's open. Bolts have been open for 20 years - it's OK.
I've read the entire thread and your responses. I'm an old-school player and have built many a cockers. I've probably built and sold at least 20 on WGP, Freeflow, and AKA bodies. I never built any of the bodies with huge breach windows or exposed bolts for good reason. I currently shoot an 06 Cyborg (Merlin extrusion). Its bolt is exposed at the back 1/4.....breach orings remain inside the body through the entire cycle. My Legend's rear upper tube is exposed all the way through but there are no orings on that bolt. If there were breach orings, they would never be exposed.

Those don't bother me a bit. Your exposed orings do.

Maybe it's my 'old-school' taste that's probably never going to adjust when it comes to such a feature but like I said, it's aesthetically weird on an otherwise very pleasing marker. Functionally, the benefits of leaving those orings wrapped in aluminum outweighs leaving them exposed. Just my opinion on the matter.

I know, I'm not a paintball marker designer so what is my input worth? But I do consult in design and engineering projects in another field in which aesthetics and functionality are both taken into account. That one feature just doesn't pass my judgement. But I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong in one way or another.

Regardless of that, I'm still very eager to see how this thing clicks. Pneumatics and mechanics are a couple of my favorite subjects and I'm always excited to see new approaches to putting paintballs on their targets.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:10 PM #229
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I like the bolt cut, just because it is something relatively novel.

I am not super interested in the marker, but at least it has a nice looking render!
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:27 PM #230
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Looks like this is going to be my first purchase from Alien
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:42 PM #231
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DESIGN IDEA - Exposed bolt with no o-ring exposed

Jack,

I have a design suggestion. Keep the exposed bolt milling design but...

Mill a o-ring recess/pocket around the inlet hole of the bolt where an o-ring can sit. This way, the o-ring can exist but complete below the expose bolt surfaces and still have blow back control.
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