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Old 10-23-2013, 10:32 AM #85
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Well back on topic.

Ill probably end up a Catholic or an Orthodox later in life only because it is the closest tradition to home, so to speak, in that Christianity is incredibly European despite its origins. I appreciate the old testament morals for their virility, inegalitarianism and the over arching drive to destroy anything that causes the privation of the good, beautiful and true. I have a great respect for these institutions, not only for saving Europe after the Roman empire's collapse, but for inspiring some of the most profound art and high culture that peaked in the high middle ages. Far more so than those pagan idiots, struuggling to hold onto misunderstood remnants of Indo European culture and inspiring little more then wanton bloodshed. In some cases going to far as to organisethe painfully misguided matriarchal society.

Overall though, the Bible is an inferior text to the Bhagavad Ghita.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:01 AM #86
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Don't confuse "faith" with "hope."
I don't believe there's any confusion there; hope is what you do when you're not sure what will happen, or are expecting the worst. Faithful Christians have no doubt about God's existence, just like atheists have no doubt that God doesn't exist.

Edit: not here to argue for or against any religious values or beliefs, I mostly just read through this subforum to see different views and pick up useful bits of information.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:24 AM #87
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Because the faithful are constantly trying to impose/force their faith on the rest of us.



Don't confuse "faith" with "hope."
That's odd because in the school text books these days it would seem that the only thing being pushed on anyone is some hoaky evolution snake oil.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:29 AM #88
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PBoldtimer is just engaging on sophistry by trying to relativize language in his favor. Faith has a definite experiential quality to it which is very much glossed over. Ignoring the religious experience itself is certainly advantageous to atheist polemics, but is ultimately self defeating if you are trying to have an intelligent argument. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see right through it.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:41 AM #89
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I just call it a circle jerk.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:44 PM #90
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Overall though, the Bible is an inferior text to the Bhagavad Ghita.
I've gone cover to cover on the former (New International), have yet do so with the latter. Based on what I have read, it's a necessity. It seems much more intuitive and universal than the bible.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:01 PM #91
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The major downside is the un****ing relatable cultural references. Can be a bit hard to get what's going on without them.

I really like Sri Aurobindos version, though it is not a strict translation. What I like is that it puts the text in a context that those who do not speak Sanskrit can pick up on.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:28 PM #92
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I've gone cover to cover on the former (New International), have yet do so with the latter. Based on what I have read, it's a necessity. It seems much more intuitive and universal than the bible.
I'd say, as a religion, its more compassionate.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:55 PM #93
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I'd say, as a religion, its more compassionate.
You obviously haven't read the BG.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:30 PM #94
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My bad. I was referring to Buddism and the buddhavancana.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:15 PM #95
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
PBoldtimer is just engaging on sophistry by trying to relativize language in his favor. Faith has a definite experiential quality to it which is very much glossed over. Ignoring the religious experience itself is certainly advantageous to atheist polemics, but is ultimately self defeating if you are trying to have an intelligent argument. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see right through it.
Faith = "I don't know or understand how the universe began, so god must have did it. I'll stop searching for answers now."

Anyone with half brain should be able to see that there is no "experiential quality" in faith.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:19 PM #96
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Faith = "I don't know or understand how the universe began, so god must have did it. I'll stop searching for answers now."

Anyone with half brain should be able to see that there is no "experiential quality" in faith.
I really needed this chunk of dogma to get me through the day. Thank you.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:58 PM #97
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For anyone else:

"God did it" is not equivalent to "We don't know." It is its own hypothesis and the contents therein will be explained by particular frames of reference, which are unique to that mode of the human experience.

The positivist argument against this hypothesis is circular because it assumes its own conclusions. Right out the gate it assumes that religious experience is just a belief system and can be dismissed thusly: as a delusion or matter of ignorance.

Claiming a thing non existent due to the inability of the thing to produce positivist evidence is deliciously self serving. But beyond that, there are very real phenomena which actually occur that can only occur under specific circumstances that can often be pretty damned difficult to reproduce. A typical argument such as the one levied against religious experience could be used to dismiss plenty of things we've observed and recorded.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:53 AM #98
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I don't even see how faith is possible how can you believe something as vehemently as some christians do without evidence. Even people who will adjust the word evidence to include mystical experiences and feelings are experiencing to themselves a sort of evidence and thus negating the faith ever so touted to be a Christian. I'm scared because the moral decay and desensitization of the people as by and large is causing a disturbing abundance of apathy. I believe Christianity can fix some of these problems but if Christians are to force people to believe the ideas therein are divinely inspired I see no salvation for the future of mankind.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:21 PM #99
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As a christian I believe we are to share our beliefs. By share I don't mean shove it down their throats but each person ought to at least have their chance to decide what they would like to do .

Christianity to me is not a religion but a relationship with the almighty.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:27 PM #100
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Christianity to me is not a religion but a relationship with the almighty.
That makes no sense. Is your relationship with the Christian God/Christ, or with your conceptualization of what God would be? If the latter, then you would not be considered a Christian.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:30 PM #101
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It makes perfect sense.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:07 PM #102
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:46 PM #103
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Claiming a thing non existent due to the inability of the thing to produce positivist evidence is deliciously self serving.
I've never claimed that god is not real. I've only said that no one, and I mean no one, has ever been able to demonstrably show that god is real.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:35 PM #104
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I've never claimed that god is not real. I've only said that no one, and I mean no one, has ever been able to demonstrably show that god is real.
It was a general statement because that is genuinely something people argue. Every religion I know of, that includes some concept of the divine, contains practices and rituals which are designed to get you to a point of personal experience.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:31 PM #105
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I've never claimed that god is not real. I've only said that no one, and I mean no one, has ever been able to demonstrably show that god is real.
God did
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