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Old 05-29-2013, 02:50 PM #22
spracks21
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Consumerism brings up a whole new conversation with behavioral economics and ethics, sort of depicting the dark side of scientific knowledge/application. I'm on my phone now though, so I'll try to come back to that more in depth later.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:49 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbandit16 View Post
First off, outside the box??? LOL You're kidding right? Look up socialism.

What good has come of capitalism?
Medicine. Do you have ANY idea how expensive it is to develop and get drugs approved? Only by selling them are they able to fund research. If doctors and the like couldn't even try to break even on their research and development, there would be much fewer drugs, and even fewer doctors.

Internet. it's the product of people trying to have faster ways to communicate, store information, and make money. Without capitalism, you wouldn't be on here right now. In fact, you're phone would not exist because there would not have been any competition to encourage it's advancement, and there would've been little to no potential for profit or motivation.

Free markets and capitalism ensure that prices are RIGHT. Because if people don't want to pay a price for something, they don't, and the price comes down (or the product leaves the market because it wasn't suitable anyway). The individuals who worked so hard to get you what you want, get rewarded only to the degree that they helped you. No more, no less.
That's why the free markets are good.

This is thrown off by big government, and by half wits who think that it's okay to steal WEEKS and often MONTHS of wages from an average fellow and his family, to give to people (inefficiently) who don't reinvest themselves into the economy.
Right, because every possible way of doing things is already out there in textbooks...and what I hadn't thought of was of course socialism har har har.

You say capitalism allows for medicine to advance. It too then allows for cheaper, more accessible remedies to be discredited and virtually unknown. Examples you might ask? The most notable...pot. I know of someone who was told they had 8 months to live with cancer. Well, she's still suckin air (and) bud. There are numerous natural ways of dealing with problems, issue being you've got to take TIME. It sucks when everything doesn't work instantly eh.

So, your saying without capitalism my phone wouldn't exist. WWWWWWWWWHAAAAAT? As if all inventors are fueled by greed and not curiosity. Just look at Nikola Tesla, true money helped fund these researches, but what doesn't in this society?

If people don't want to pay the price for something, they don't, right. Like all those ****ty products coming out of Asia, wasting energy, materials, time and money. Only to be replaced again after a year of use. Brilliant for the company/corporation, ****ing dumb as a society.

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I'd hardly call something which is perfectly viable "idiocy" for failing to meet some ideological presuppositions.
To the victor the spoils. Forget the means, to the victor the spoils yes? Whether people know it or not, to the victor the spoils. This Viking Economics you so love gives way for growth, growth in buying companies, swaying legislatures, paying off just about whatever you want. Just here in Toronto, I was looking to apply to a CAT fabrication shop, only to hear after acquiring the company three years ago, CAT decided to shut it down. Why? Ohhhh I don't know, eliminate the competition? Move elsewhere? Money to blow? Well good sir, what are you then left with if everyone is bought out? Hello 1984.

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Originally Posted by snowbandit16 View Post
Dude, WAY off topic lol. I'm not anti-government intervention. We're talking about BASIC NECESSITIES. The OP is talking about the government providing all the little things for everyone.
In general, consumerism and capitalism give us balance, productivity, and wealth. I think that where market incentives can be reasonably applied, we ought to.
Depends what you mean by all the little things, I meant it by the BASIC NECESSITIES. I don't want the government to give everyone a basketball who wants one. The thing about it is that we are constantly being sold the idea that this is the best way of going about things. Capitalisms the best way, ohhh ya baby, gets nooooo better than this. Well it sure as **** can't even help people. How about in India where Coca-cola was draining up the water supply to make coke? Heard that one on the news? Thought so.

Consumerism gives us cool commercials, and DUMB people.

In this thread I wanted to talk about the flaws that exist with the current system. You've got to think waaaaaaay outside your comfort zone dude.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:34 AM #24
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In answer to your big medicine rant about them squashing cheaper remedies. All I can say is that I've worked in drug discovery for 15 years at many different companies. I've never been in a meeting about squashing natural products. The truth is that we don't care. What we do is take the natural product, find the and active ingredient. Then change the structure to increase potency, extend the pharmacokinetics and formulate in easy administration/dosing.

Once the biochem is better understood, totally new scaffolds are created to hit the same target. Some diseases are ignored due to poor market potential, but other companies have made a niche finding orphan drugs. Then they sell them for 500k per year and hope they can convince insurance companies to pay.

It's not as easy of a process as it seems, and the regulation makes it inefficient. but that's the price society has to pay to prevent snake oils.

If you have a headache, would you rather spend the time looking for a willow tree to chew on or just pop a pill and wait 15min.

I won't lie, Drug companies spend a great deal on congress, but we're more concerned about taxes, favorable markets, and laws concerning patent extensions. Standard big business stuff.

Budweiser has more to lose by pot being legalized than big pharma does.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:27 AM #25
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[quote=Dynamopbers;78920427]
To the victor the spoils. Forget the means, to the victor the spoils yes? Whether people know it or not, to the victor the spoils. This Viking Economics you so love gives way for growth, growth in buying companies, swaying legislatures, paying off just about whatever you want. Just here in Toronto, I was looking to apply to a CAT fabrication shop, only to hear after acquiring the company three years ago, CAT decided to shut it down. Why? Ohhhh I don't know, eliminate the competition? Move elsewhere? Money to blow? Well good sir, what are you then left with if everyone is bought out? Hello 1984./QUOTE]

Your concerns have more to do with people acting unethically than with capitalism.

Remember, the recieving end (politicians for example) choose to accept the money.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:40 AM #26
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Originally Posted by Dynamopbers View Post
Right, because every possible way of doing things is already out there in textbooks...and what I hadn't thought of was of course socialism har har har.
That's exactly what it is, a type of socialism. That's not even a debate. If you want to make a pro-socialism stance we can talk, but if you're not even going to identify what you're talking about, i don't see the point in attempting a civilized argument.

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The most notable...pot.
Pot is illegal because of politics, racism, and propaganda. Not because of capitalism. In fact, it's entrepreneurs that sell pot at market value that supply most smokers with their weed.

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So, your saying without capitalism my phone wouldn't exist. WWWWWWWWWHAAAAAT? As if all inventors are fueled by greed and not curiosity.
Alright mister curiosity, go give everyone the next big thing in cell phones. Curiosity doesn't pay for R&D, curiosity doesn't pay for manufacturing, nor does it pay off loans, or give incentives to invest, or distribute world wide.
Example: lets say microsoft had been allowed to smother Apple a few years ago. They wouldn't have the competition. The iPhone would not have been invented as a way to get profit margins back, and Android phones and Windows Phones would not be what they are today. Competition does wonders for advancement. It's competition that fuels these developments.

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Just look at Nikola Tesla, true money helped fund these researches, but what doesn't in this society?
nothing. and where does money come from i wonder? If you think its the government, then you misunderstand what money is.

Quote:
If people don't want to pay the price for something, they don't, right. Like all those ****ty products coming out of Asia, wasting energy, materials, time and money.
if they wasted money, Asia wouldn't be pumping them out. If people didn't want to buy them, they wouldn't be bought.

Quote:
Depends what you mean by all the little things, I meant it by the BASIC NECESSITIES. I don't want the government to give everyone a basketball who wants one.
we are on the same page with waht you think then.
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Well it sure as **** can't even help people.
tell that to all the average income person living in any free market nation. then go find the average income person in nation governed, regulated, and heavily taxed by socialism, and tell him he's got it good.

Quote:
Consumerism gives us cool commercials, and DUMB people.In this thread I wanted to talk about the flaws that exist with the current system. You've got to think waaaaaaay outside your comfort zone dude.
You'll forgive me if i don't think that a guy who thinks that a degree of socialism(/additional welfare) is new thinking knows anything about thinking WAAAAAAY outside of a comfort zone.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:01 AM #27
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What are your thoughts on society as it is? What are the good things about it in particular? Easy to spot the faults, so please let me know what good has come of this capitalism/consumerism?
A plentiful and diverse food supply. Without corporations being able to raise larges sums of money, we would not have railroads, trucking companies and the distribution network to get our food to the local grocery store.

Rosevelt campaigned on a "chicken in every pot" That was back before we could mass produce chicken, slaughter it, freeze it, transport it fresh, etc. Back then chickens were a luxury for people. They had to be transported live. Very expensive to do.

Would you be able to turn on your electric light without the massive amount of investment required to build power plants and dams. No, we would be using oil lamps still.

I could go on and on. Others listed here. HOWEVER,

Corporations are not human beings. They have no empathy, consciousness, ethics, etc. Those are only human traits. They do not have human traits and those attributes, strangely keep being applied to them.

There are rare exceptions but we see example after example of a total disregard of human values.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:19 PM #28
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This is a damn good question, you could write a book on this topic (and many have) These are a few things that are wrong imo..

- Too few of people care to find things out for themselves
- Illiteracy
- Everybody is too distracted with meaningless garbage to be bothered by the real problems
- Television
- Religion
- The federal reserve system and really just our monetary system in general
- Fast food
- Moral decay!
- The public school system
- Our inability to even consider anything that doesn't fit in with what we've decided to believe (Not open minded)
- The urge to blindly follow
- Our willingness to sacrifice our rights for the illusion of safety

A lot of these kind of tie in with each other but you get the point.

I don't have a solution but I think things would be a little better if everyone was taught meditation at 5 years old, there was a mandatory 4 gram psilocybin mushroom trip for everyone when they turn 21, and at birth you get your ability to have children taken away, then when you turn 30 you can take some sort of test to earn it back.
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