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Old 05-21-2013, 06:36 PM #1
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"Society"

So...

The religion/philosophy section of PbN seems dull, so perhaps this will engage some sort of conversation.

Society is broadly defined and largely subjective. Though many commonalities exist when people speak of it. For example, gay marriage would have no place in society 50 years ago, now it's flamboyant as everrrrrr!!

The question I pose is, by your viewpoint, what things in society are flawed? What, in your opinion, is ****ed up? And extending on that, what is wrong in general with the way the world works? Basically, what is wrong with capitalism?

Personally I could have a list with atleast 30 things off the top of my head...for example the bleeping of swear words as seen in this post. Anyway, shoot yours, explain your reasoning, and perhaps a solution

Yes I realized this could be in the Politics forum, but they got enough topics with the US being the way it is
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:07 AM #2
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Some preliminary things I think society should be taking care of first and foremost.

Food. Water. Shelter. For everyone, no matter what.

This idea that people like to say "well obviously he/she didn't work hard enough to meet his/her needs" or "He/she shouldn't have boughten all those things and gone in debt, shame on him or her now he lives on foodstamps". Is it fair? True, life is not always fair, but why can't we choose to be fair? We very well have the ability to do so.

Why not create a system where needs are met for everyone? So that we are not reliant on a monetary system for the basic needs of survival. Is that to say everyone can have sushi for lunch everyday...no, but a nice stew, bread, and juice aren't thaaaaaaaat much to ask for. And in that very act of giving, of knowing that someone is atleast looking out for you, you can go home at night and sleep a little bit better.

On the contrary, one might say "those that rely on the system for their basic needs will have no motivation for finding a job, or be productive members in society. They'll end up as potheads and crack smokers". Education is vital and needs a revamp as well. If you knew what every drug can do to you, I think 95+% of people would reconsider taking that first hit.




Feels ****in dumb talkin to myself here, feel free to question my thoughts. I really think this could be a good thread to conversate on ideas and open some peoples eyes and expose what they think (however ridiculous it can be) are societal problems. Don't be afraid... it's the internet, we're allowed free speech still.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:07 PM #3
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Yeah I don't really have a nice way of putting this but your vision of society sounds a lot like this woman:


Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 05-23-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:07 PM #4
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Yeah I don't really have a nice way of putting this but your vision of society sounds a lot like this woman:

The difference between her and I (aside from ummm, being a woman, and a seemingly uneducated twat) is that I'm thinkin outsiiiide the box (better yet, boxless). We need an overhaul of the way things are, it's not sustainable. Don't think in terms of what we have currently. Brainstorm, think of new ways of doing things, the old way ain't workin. This isn't about Zeitgeist or Jacques Franco's ideas, it's about yours.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:45 PM #5
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It's not outside the box, like at all. People have been saying similar to identical things for decades. Literally the entire society you describe was the model used for the Federation of Planets in Star Trek. Who wrote that ****ing "Imagine" song? John Lennon? Yeah ridiculous.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:24 PM #6
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What are your thoughts on society as it is? What are the good things about it in particular? Easy to spot the faults, so please let me know what good has come of this capitalism/consumerism?
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:10 PM #7
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What are your thoughts on society as it is? What are the good things about it in particular? Easy to spot the faults, so please let me know what good has come of this capitalism/consumerism?
All sorts of awesome stuff people with money can enjoy.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:18 PM #8
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What are your thoughts on society as it is? What are the good things about it in particular? Easy to spot the faults, so please let me know what good has come of this capitalism/consumerism?
Viking economics, what's not to love? To the Victor, the spoils.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:44 PM #9
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Idiocy.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:21 AM #10
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What are your thoughts on society as it is? What are the good things about it in particular? Easy to spot the faults, so please let me know what good has come of this capitalism/consumerism?
First off, outside the box??? LOL You're kidding right? Look up socialism.

What good has come of capitalism?
Medicine. Do you have ANY idea how expensive it is to develop and get drugs approved? Only by selling them are they able to fund research. If doctors and the like couldn't even try to break even on their research and development, there would be much fewer drugs, and even fewer doctors.

Internet. it's the product of people trying to have faster ways to communicate, store information, and make money. Without capitalism, you wouldn't be on here right now. In fact, you're phone would not exist because there would not have been any competition to encourage it's advancement, and there would've been little to no potential for profit or motivation.

Free markets and capitalism ensure that prices are RIGHT. Because if people don't want to pay a price for something, they don't, and the price comes down (or the product leaves the market because it wasn't suitable anyway). The individuals who worked so hard to get you what you want, get rewarded only to the degree that they helped you. No more, no less.
That's why the free markets are good.

This is thrown off by big government, and by half wits who think that it's okay to steal WEEKS and often MONTHS of wages from an average fellow and his family, to give to people (inefficiently) who don't reinvest themselves into the economy.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:55 AM #11
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Because if people don't want to pay a price for something, they don't, and the price comes down (or the product leaves the market because it wasn't suitable anyway). The individuals who worked so hard to get you what you want, get rewarded only to the degree that they helped you. No more, no less.
That's why the free markets are good.
Except when it comes to things you need to function in society, such as healthcare. In that case, people often have to accept financial suicide in order to avoid actual bodily death...
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:01 AM #12
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Idiocy.
I'd hardly call something which is perfectly viable "idiocy" for failing to meet some ideological presuppositions.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:03 AM #13
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Except when it comes to things you need to function in society, such as healthcare. In that case, people often have to accept financial suicide in order to avoid actual bodily death...
getting health insurance is not financial suicide, it's more fair than socialized healthcare, and it still helps a LOT if you ever get into major medical bills.

Having broken 14 bones, having 3 surgeries, and coming from a family that incurred 2 million in medical debt, I know what it's like to hit those situations.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:48 AM #14
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First off, outside the box??? LOL You're kidding right? Look up socialism.

What good has come of capitalism?
Medicine. Do you have ANY idea how expensive it is to develop and get drugs approved? Only by selling them are they able to fund research. If doctors and the like couldn't even try to break even on their research and development, there would be much fewer drugs, and even fewer doctors.

Internet. it's the product of people trying to have faster ways to communicate, store information, and make money. Without capitalism, you wouldn't be on here right now. In fact, you're phone would not exist because there would not have been any competition to encourage it's advancement, and there would've been little to no potential for profit or motivation.

Free markets and capitalism ensure that prices are RIGHT. Because if people don't want to pay a price for something, they don't, and the price comes down (or the product leaves the market because it wasn't suitable anyway). The individuals who worked so hard to get you what you want, get rewarded only to the degree that they helped you. No more, no less.
That's why the free markets are good.

This is thrown off by big government, and by half wits who think that it's okay to steal WEEKS and often MONTHS of wages from an average fellow and his family, to give to people (inefficiently) who don't reinvest themselves into the economy.
Uhm, the internet was a government project.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:39 PM #15
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Uhm, the internet was a government project.
No it wasn't. The government hopped in on it, but there was already an internet created before they took interest in it.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:33 PM #16
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You're going to have to substantiate that one. ARPAnet is to my knowledge the first progenitor to the internet, funded and commissioned by the defense department for use in university laboratories.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:35 PM #17
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getting health insurance is not financial suicide, it's more fair than socialized healthcare, and it still helps a LOT if you ever get into major medical bills.

Having broken 14 bones, having 3 surgeries, and coming from a family that incurred 2 million in medical debt, I know what it's like to hit those situations.
In a truly free market, companies can refuse coverave to those with pre existing conditions. So these people are ****ed if their condition worsens. Also, things like cancer treatment and heart surgeries can be very costly, to the point of insurmountable debt, even if you have insurance when you are diagnosed. And remember, insurance companies don't want to have to pay these massive bills, and will often fight tooth and nail to avoid it. And they can usually afford a better legal team.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:00 PM #18
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I don't think the free market is intended to answer questions of ethics.

EDIT: In response to fairness.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:22 PM #19
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I don't think the free market is intended to answer questions of ethics.

EDIT: In response to fairness.
Me either, but many people view it as an infallible and innately just system of economics, which is far from true. And it seems like snowbandit is one such person, who believes that the freemarket will take care of all who worship it. This faith in the free market among the masses is crucial to the continued flourishing of those at the top, while casting aside the most vulnerable members of society.

Not to say that private enterprise is always a bad thing, but a purely free market can be just as oppressive as the most totalitarian government regime. I personally am of the belief that there is a call for both, depending on the varying circumstances and societal needs. Going 100% in either direction (Private or public) doesn't really seem workable in practice. So relevant to this thread, I would hope the discussion wouldn't be of what ideology is best, but rather where the lines should be drawn, and what works best where.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:33 PM #20
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In a truly free market, companies can refuse coverave to those with pre existing conditions. So these people are ****ed if their condition worsens. Also, things like cancer treatment and heart surgeries can be very costly, to the point of insurmountable debt, even if you have insurance when you are diagnosed. And remember, insurance companies don't want to have to pay these massive bills, and will often fight tooth and nail to avoid it. And they can usually afford a better legal team.
Dude, WAY off topic lol. I'm not anti-government intervention. We're talking about BASIC NECESSITIES. The OP is talking about the government providing all the little things for everyone.
In general, consumerism and capitalism give us balance, productivity, and wealth. I think that where market incentives can be reasonably applied, we ought to.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:39 PM #21
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People worship weird things.

The way I see ethics within private enterprise regulated in the states is through the use of coercive legislation. Legislation against discrimination on the basis of race, or legislation against discrimination on the basis of pre-existing conditions. Stuff of that nature. Free market types believe that without coercive legislation, people will naturally boycott discriminatory practices they do not agree with. You guys are free to debate whether or not that happens. I just want a cheap a taco.
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