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Old 04-22-2013, 10:26 AM #1
OhIoCoNtRActKilLa
 
 
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Alright, honest question: Why can't the PSP put on an event like the NCPA?

I absolutely LOVE watching the 20 minute matches and I would bet that the players love to play it. What exactly is different between the two tournaments that does not allow this format in the PSP?

The first thing that I can think of is the extra amount of time that it takes to run all of the matches. But isn't this resolved with having only 3 prelim matches, in place of 4?

The webcast might not be able to catch every match in the pro division, but how big of a deal is that? There is already half of the pro division that doesn't get any face time at all.

Paint - if a dozen college kids that are mostly paying 10's of thousands to go to school and can afford all of the paint for Nationals, why can't a PSP team? Or is there some special deal for college teams that I am unaware of that makes it more affordable?

What do you guys think?
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:56 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa View Post
I absolutely LOVE watching the 20 minute matches and I would bet that the players love to play it. What exactly is different between the two tournaments that does not allow this format in the PSP?
The main reason was that race matches are easier to schedule as you playing a max of 5 points OR 15 minutes of play time. Even with 2 minutes between points that still is only 15 mins + (5 pts * 2 mins pit time) = 25 minutes max

In college, you have a high scoring game it can take a lot longer.

e.g. 20 mins + (15 pts * 2 mins) = 50 minutes
e.g. 20 mins + (7 pts * 2 mins) = 34 minutes

College this isn't as big a deal with only 3 fields for one day but at PSP events with lots of fields/teams etc it adds up.

That being said, I think the 2 ten minute halves is the best format for both playing and watching.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:42 PM #3
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Time is one factor, money/paint consumption is another. The Xball style is indeed a ton of fun to play, however when one team begins to dominate another and the point differential gets greater than, say, 8 it simply becomes a waste of time/paint for the losing team as well as the winning team, and it makes for a stale webcast and boring paintball to watch. A blow out point between two great teams is fun to watch. 15 blow out points going to one side of the board is stupid and pointless and no one wants to watch 10 of those games in a day.

Keep in mind, a HUGE part of how the PSP runs their events/format now revolves around the webcast and providing an ESPN-like-quality broadcast that is both high quality and entertaining to watch. Sure, other pro sports have blow out games. Most people don't care to watch them if I have to guess.

Besides, Xball used to be used and the Race-To system was adopted. The players called for it as well as the paint vendors/sponsors feeding the pro teams.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:08 PM #4
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The players called for it as well as the paint vendors/sponsors feeding the pro teams.
This I'm not so sure about. Everyone that I talk to would like to see it go back to the old style as the current format is extremely watered down.

To address your point regarding the excessive scoring - I think you can still enforce a mercy rule to cut that down. For instance, if a team goes up 7 unmatched points, they win that half.

As for the webcast, not every game needs to be televised, like I said. It's already at this point with the challengers division. They could run just like the NCPA and have a match or two for each team on the webcast for the prelims. Then from there, each game would be shown.

If it's such a bad idea to go with this format, why is it that the NCPA insists on using it year after year?
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:19 PM #5
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Everyone that you talk to is not everyone that plays paintball. Sure there are older PSP players, but some are 16 and 14 years old. These kids can't afford it without sponsorships or parents backing them.

I'm assuming every team at Nationals receives some benefits from their schools, benefits that many PSP teams aren't fortunate enough to have.

In the end, its a business. As mentioned, the paint companies aren't going to just hand out triple the paint to their pro players. And if they did, what do you think this would mean for paint prices to the non-sponsored teams? I don't know if your familiar with much about the nppl hiatus, but that is a prime example of the influence the paint suppliers have on the major tournament series.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:39 PM #6
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Yes, I realize that not everyone I know is everyone that plays paintball, which is why I never made such a statement. I'm just stating that I am skeptical of what was quoted.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:14 PM #7
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I'm assuming every team at Nationals receives some benefits from their schools, benefits that many PSP teams aren't fortunate enough to have.
I know CSULB puts on a 3-man tournament series (4 events last year) to help raise money for nationals.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:41 PM #8
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Keep in mind that when we played "full" XBall, everyone and their mother could work a deal to get paint at $20/case if not free.

NCPA "can do" the longer match formats because the teams don't have to get on planes for most of their events (just nationals) and many only play one Class A format event a year.

I put "can do" in quotes as we only had 8 regular season Class A teams this year (although Collegiate Cup participation was up) so it's looking like we can't sustain the format either amidst tightening University budgets.

RaceTo is a great format and if there's any question as to whether the players prefer it over XBall you need only look at the PSP team counts this year, which are at near-record levels.


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Old 04-22-2013, 07:05 PM #9
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I know CSULB puts on a 3-man tournament series (4 events last year) to help raise money for nationals.
Seems like a decent fundraiser. I like to believe that college teams have greater access to fundraising compared to a non college team simply because of the power a university name has. I can't speak for all teams, but this seems to be the case.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:36 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa View Post
This I'm not so sure about. Everyone that I talk to would like to see it go back to the old style as the current format is extremely watered down.

To address your point regarding the excessive scoring - I think you can still enforce a mercy rule to cut that down. For instance, if a team goes up 7 unmatched points, they win that half.

As for the webcast, not every game needs to be televised, like I said. It's already at this point with the challengers division. They could run just like the NCPA and have a match or two for each team on the webcast for the prelims. Then from there, each game would be shown.

If it's such a bad idea to go with this format, why is it that the NCPA insists on using it year after year?
I'm not trying to say that players asked specifically for a race-to style of paintball, simply that many people were complaining about the cost and many more were simply unable to afford to play and were leaving the sport. In order to make it more feasible, PSP developed a format which, in my opinion, holds the best of both worlds.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:00 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Elliott View Post
The main reason was that race matches are easier to schedule as you playing a max of 5 points OR 15 minutes of play time. Even with 2 minutes between points that still is only 15 mins + (5 pts * 2 mins pit time) = 25 minutes max

In college, you have a high scoring game it can take a lot longer.

e.g. 20 mins + (15 pts * 2 mins) = 50 minutes
e.g. 20 mins + (7 pts * 2 mins) = 34 minutes

College this isn't as big a deal with only 3 fields for one day but at PSP events with lots of fields/teams etc it adds up.

That being said, I think the 2 ten minute halves is the best format for both playing and watching.

Agreed
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:07 AM #12
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I'm not trying to say that players asked specifically for a race-to style of paintball, simply that many people were complaining about the cost and many more were simply unable to afford to play and were leaving the sport. In order to make it more feasible, PSP developed a format which, in my opinion, holds the best of both worlds.
That's understandable. I suppose I underestimated the cost involved with making these events happen. 5 events like this would certainly rack up an insane paint bill at least.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:15 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Elliott View Post
The main reason was that race matches are easier to schedule as you playing a max of 5 points OR 15 minutes of play time. Even with 2 minutes between points that still is only 15 mins + (5 pts * 2 mins pit time) = 25 minutes max

In college, you have a high scoring game it can take a lot longer.

e.g. 20 mins + (15 pts * 2 mins) = 50 minutes
e.g. 20 mins + (7 pts * 2 mins) = 34 minutes

College this isn't as big a deal with only 3 fields for one day but at PSP events with lots of fields/teams etc it adds up.

That being said, I think the 2 ten minute halves is the best format for both playing and watching.
Also, just wanted to throw this out there, but keep in mind that Race-to is not limited to a number of points. It is given a time block and generally doesn't exceed the time, especially since there isn't any overtime in prelims. So I don't know if scheduling is easier than Xball, but you're more likely to get ahead of schedule with Race-to since the game can end before the clock does. I know that we (GI Sportz) were consistently finding ourselves half an hour to an hour ahead of scheule in Dallas and were honestly waiting on teams to arrive because we finished our bracket. Also, PSP simplifies their schedules by keeping teams on pretty much the same field for the entire tournament. I may be mistaken, however prelims are the same field for everyone and then semis/consolation move to different fields.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:57 PM #14
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Also, just wanted to throw this out there, but keep in mind that Race-to is not limited to a number of points.
Well, a race to 5 match can never have more than 9 points as 5-4 is the highest possible score you can have.

I did use the wrong number for my calculation in my post though. The longest a race to 5 match could be would be:

15 mins + (9 pts * 2 min) = 33 mins
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:20 PM #15
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Well, a race to 5 match can never have more than 9 points as 5-4 is the highest possible score you can have.

I did use the wrong number for my calculation in my post though. The longest a race to 5 match could be would be:

15 mins + (9 pts * 2 min) = 33 mins
There can be some "no points," so the max time can go up from that. But they are not that common to wreak havox on whole days schedule.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:22 PM #16
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Indeed, however they do happen more than you would think. People trade all the time. Mind you, with the recent rule changes, all those penalties that used to make no points will now award points to the team not receiving the penalty.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:31 PM #17
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My main guess would be organization. You almost have a guaranteed MAX time that matches can last, and then if you get them done before the 15minute allotted time... there is a little bit of extra time to organize things.

With the XBall format, times can drastically differ which would throw a wrench in the clockwork... or could
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:17 PM #18
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I just wish paintball was as popular as football/basketball...
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:42 PM #19
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**** that. 20 min games?

State of the paint bills... GI would have to bring like 4 trucks packed to the rim with bullets.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:17 PM #20
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Points typically are comparable to playing race to 5 I've noticed.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:50 AM #21
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As an outside observer...

A lot of the matches in the NCPA become completely unwatchable, sometimes before halftime. Why on earth would anyone want to watch FGCU score 18 points on some team? I think the race to 7 has made the Pro game much more entertaining.

I went to 2 World Cups when it was still 20 minute halves, and honestly the matches can get really really boring even with a ton on the line.

From a player standpoint it would obviously mean more paintball, but is more always better? You will end up spending 2-3 times as much on paint, and have nothing to show for it even if you win, because you could have won in the current format by scoring way less points.

In summary, who the crap knows?
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