Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2013, 08:28 AM #22
BigPumpPlayer
 
 
BigPumpPlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
BigPumpPlayer owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Hmmm I never knew a bolt required underboring to be effective. I have a .681 I use when small paint is around but generally I have a .685 for most paints as well. That is interesting, maybe the boss is not for me.
__________________
Antidote Twister LV1
Cobalt Valken Proton
CCM'd Dragon OC Pump
Phantom VSC Custom Pump
"I Fight YOU!!! Pew Pew!"
BigPumpPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-21-2013, 08:38 AM #23
private_silver
Fire and Forget.
 
private_silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
private_silver is an NCPA player
private_silver plays in the APPA D5 division
You're going to ditch a bolt simply because you don't want to underbore? Huh, little odd, but to each his own i guess.
__________________
Dust Black Axe w/ white accent
14" Freak Kit
Spire with CrownSF
Crossfire 68/45 w/ Stealth
private_silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 08:41 AM #24
TheBoss33
 
 
TheBoss33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Waterloo, NY
TheBoss33 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
TheBoss33 is All In
TheBoss33 is All In
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPumpPlayer View Post
Hmmm I never knew a bolt required underboring to be effective. I have a .681 I use when small paint is around but generally I have a .685 for most paints as well. That is interesting, maybe the boss is not for me.
It's not required but if you want to get the most out of the bolt or any after market bolt for the Axe or Mini you will want to be able to underbore. .681 is pretty good for the most part.
TheBoss33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 08:43 AM #25
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPumpPlayer View Post
Hmmm I never knew a bolt required underboring to be effective. I have a .681 I use when small paint is around but generally I have a .685 for most paints as well. That is interesting, maybe the boss is not for me.
Lol, some of you people kill me. You have any idea how the axe works? You know the design of the gun always benefits from underboring because it helps seal the breach and lets poppet open more efficiently. Boss bolts (and lurker bolts) work magic because they lower the operating pressure and that means there's less usable force (backpressure) to open the poppet. Polishing the poppet itself will help offset some of this...
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)

Last edited by blueshifty : 03-21-2013 at 08:47 AM.
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 09:53 AM #26
WildWayz
The Moose God
 
WildWayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Annual Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Lol, some of you people kill me. You have any idea how the axe works? You know the design of the gun always benefits from underboring because it helps seal the breach and lets poppet open more efficiently. Boss bolts (and lurker bolts) work magic because they lower the operating pressure and that means there's less usable force (backpressure) to open the poppet. Polishing the poppet itself will help offset some of this...
Quoted for the truth. You dont have to massively underbore, but if your paint is measuring at .685 then .681 will be fine! If you get barrel breaks, just up it a notch to .683.
__________________
For Freelance 3D Rendering Services, Manual Writing Service or Setting Up Support Ticket Systems visit here: My Services Thread
Progress Paintball - UK Sales and Support Thread - UK Dealer and Unofficial Service Center for Bob Long and Machine Paintball.

Clubs: Marq Clan | Insight Owners Group
WildWayz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 10:29 AM #27
BigPumpPlayer
 
 
BigPumpPlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
BigPumpPlayer owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
I just have paint at my field that is plenty brittle but has some QC issues so over boring has greatly improved my barrel break avoidance, so a bolt that needs underboring is odd. I guess any bolt will perform better with underboring but it sounds like it is needed with the boss for whatever reason, so I would probably need to try one out first. From all the positives I have heard I am down to try it out, I know a couple people at my field have it so I will try it out sometime. Not ditching just surprised to hear underboring having that effect.
__________________
Antidote Twister LV1
Cobalt Valken Proton
CCM'd Dragon OC Pump
Phantom VSC Custom Pump
"I Fight YOU!!! Pew Pew!"
BigPumpPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 10:37 AM #28
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPumpPlayer View Post
I just have paint at my field that is plenty brittle but has some QC issues so over boring has greatly improved my barrel break avoidance, so a bolt that needs underboring is odd. I guess any bolt will perform better with underboring but it sounds like it is needed with the boss for whatever reason, so I would probably need to try one out first. From all the positives I have heard I am down to try it out, I know a couple people at my field have it so I will try it out sometime. Not ditching just surprised to hear underboring having that effect.
Again, polish the poppet and you'll help consistency a little by reducing the drag on the backward movement of the poppet. A shocktech bolt may (due to the BS venturi design that actually has a terrible air path) provide some marginal benefit over stock while maintaining consistency while overbored. The design of the poppet system is why the gun really needs to be overbored... the bolt has very little to do with it other than it runs at lower pressure.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 10:37 AM #29
Jahdfather
Mini Master
 
Jahdfather's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Omaha
Jahdfather owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
Jahdfather has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Jahdfather has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Lol, some of you people kill me. You have any idea how the axe works? You know the design of the gun always benefits from underboring because it helps seal the breach and lets poppet open more efficiently. Boss bolts (and lurker bolts) work magic because they lower the operating pressure and that means there's less usable force (backpressure) to open the poppet. Polishing the poppet itself will help offset some of this...
Ease up, I started this thread to learn and solve a problem, answers have been helpful and lines like some of you kill me and demeaning another user are obnoxious. I am learning as are many people, sorry I and others are not all sages of empire design, oh god why do I even exist!

Sorry for rant but basically relax and be nice, I appreciate your knowledge and appreciate the help, but don't attack others for learning something. C'mon man!
__________________
CCM 6.5 Storm Trooper
CCM T2 Fireball
Luxe 2.0 Hypnotic Edition
AGD Minimag
Jahdfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 10:55 AM #30
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahdfather View Post
Ease up, I started this thread to learn and solve a problem, answers have been helpful and lines like some of you kill me and demeaning another user are obnoxious. I am learning as are many people, sorry I and others are not all sages of empire design, oh god why do I even exist!

Sorry for rant but basically relax and be nice, I appreciate your knowledge and appreciate the help, but don't attack others for learning something. C'mon man!
The problem is when people take things out of context. Like insinuating that the boss bolt has terrible consistency unless underbored, which is not entirely true. There are ways of offsetting it, but the very design of the axe/mini is benefited from backpressure. Lower pressure settings just make the issue more obvious.

Study this for a while and understand what I'm saying:


Keep in mind that the boss and lurker bolt run ~140-160psi as opposed to stock 180-200psi.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 10:33 AM #31
BigPumpPlayer
 
 
BigPumpPlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
BigPumpPlayer owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Are there possibly any other settings to check than dwell, psi, back cap? Closing dwell or maybe something of the like? I borrowed a boss bolt from a friend and gonna try it in my mini this weekend, hopefully swing out to chrono after work tomorrow.
__________________
Antidote Twister LV1
Cobalt Valken Proton
CCM'd Dragon OC Pump
Phantom VSC Custom Pump
"I Fight YOU!!! Pew Pew!"
BigPumpPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 10:35 AM #32
WildWayz
The Moose God
 
WildWayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Annual Supporting Member
Reset your board to factory, then just do as the instructions suggest ie

Medium spring
back cap 1.5 turns out from all in
Dwell at 4ms
Reg @ 150psi (lower if it is shooting hot)

That is all you need

Oh and underbore it
__________________
For Freelance 3D Rendering Services, Manual Writing Service or Setting Up Support Ticket Systems visit here: My Services Thread
Progress Paintball - UK Sales and Support Thread - UK Dealer and Unofficial Service Center for Bob Long and Machine Paintball.

Clubs: Marq Clan | Insight Owners Group
WildWayz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 12:18 PM #33
BigPumpPlayer
 
 
BigPumpPlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
BigPumpPlayer owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Alright, I'll try this bolt out and these settings and report back tomorrow, hope it helps the OP. if it goes well maybe I will buy my own boss!
__________________
Antidote Twister LV1
Cobalt Valken Proton
CCM'd Dragon OC Pump
Phantom VSC Custom Pump
"I Fight YOU!!! Pew Pew!"
BigPumpPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 12:35 PM #34
WildWayz
The Moose God
 
WildWayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Annual Supporting Member
I love it. My Axe has almost zero kick since I put it in.
In fact, it feels like it isn't shooting properly, but it is. Love it
__________________
For Freelance 3D Rendering Services, Manual Writing Service or Setting Up Support Ticket Systems visit here: My Services Thread
Progress Paintball - UK Sales and Support Thread - UK Dealer and Unofficial Service Center for Bob Long and Machine Paintball.

Clubs: Marq Clan | Insight Owners Group
WildWayz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 03:41 PM #35
Clark Gryphyn
 
 
Clark Gryphyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
I could stare at that animation of the Mini inner workings forever and ever.

Boss makes a great bolt. I have one in one of my axe's and it shoots awesome. Everybody's gun is different though. Don't give up, tweak until you win!
Clark Gryphyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 12:35 PM #36
minimag03
 
 
minimag03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bluefield, WV
minimag03 is an NCPA player
minimag03 plays in the APPA D5 division
I would suggest using the Lurker barrel. It is going to make a difference even if you're using the stock bolt and even more with the Boss bolt. If your field paint is always so bad that you cannot underbore then it sounds like you need to find a different field.

Are you using Boss's small bolt guide orings or the ones that came stock? Boss's orings made a big difference in my Mini with the Boss bolt. I would put that on the list after a small bore barrel.
__________________
Old Feeback
minimag03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 12:54 PM #37
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Gryphyn View Post
I could stare at that animation of the Mini inner workings forever and ever.
It's actually quite an impressive design IMO... The pink air is what makes it all work. When you look it's actually what opens the poppet for the HP air. In order to open the poppet consistently you need adequate backpressure which is why underboring works well.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 03:56 PM #38
BigPumpPlayer
 
 
BigPumpPlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
BigPumpPlayer owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Tried the bolt out with freshly lubed poppet, bolt and guide. Had the dwell at 4ms, back cap at 1.5 turns out and pressure set at 140 to start. Used medium spring for starters.Shooting through lurker .678 Eigenbarrel

131
156
113
127
133

Upped dwell to 10ms

138
122
130
119
106

Set dwell to 8ms and inserted large spring, then raised pressure until got results that made sense.

At 200psi, finally

286
279
294
295
274

Switched to lucky .685 barrel

279
284
285
276
281

So dwell and pressure are essentially stock, and still big spring, so appears this bolt had no benefits to my mini. I borrowed from an axe user who swears by it... Are the orings set up wrong for a mini? He said it came with a large oring that he has never used. Thoughts?
__________________
Antidote Twister LV1
Cobalt Valken Proton
CCM'd Dragon OC Pump
Phantom VSC Custom Pump
"I Fight YOU!!! Pew Pew!"
BigPumpPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 04:08 PM #39
minimag03
 
 
minimag03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bluefield, WV
minimag03 is an NCPA player
minimag03 plays in the APPA D5 division
The orings are your problem. You aren't suppose to use the two large orings on the bolt unless shooting very fragile paint. Did you read the directions on his website? It explains this. You need to order the correct smaller oring to go on the back of the bolt.

Quote:
Recommended starting settings
Dwell 3 Milliseconds
150 PSI
Short Spring
Velocity adjuster 1.5 turns out
Medium Spring, Dwell 3.5 milliseconds 150 PSI
Long Spring, Dwell 4 milliseconds 150 PSI

For extremely fragile paint use the optional rear bolt o-ring provided w/the dwell at 10 milliseconds, long spring, 150 PSI
__________________
Old Feeback

Last edited by minimag03 : 03-23-2013 at 04:10 PM.
minimag03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 04:31 PM #40
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
I think you've got something else going on like your poppet isn't moving back well enough. What kind of lube and how much are you using?
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 05:48 PM #41
Booyahkai
 
 
Booyahkai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philly
 has been a member for 10 years
Booyahkai plays in the PSP
Booyahkai plays in the APPA D4 division
You need to bump up the dwell in increments until you shoot at the desired fps. I have mines at 4.5ms, and 150psi, 1.5 turns in and it shooting 285 +/- 5. Those setting on the package are only the recommended starting points. Every gun will vary.
__________________
Me Artist, You Canvas. Get the picture?

GUNS for sale{.http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...3#post81408953
HUGE TANK SALE!!! http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3863046
Gearbag sale http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3654110
Booyahkai is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 07:23 PM #42
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
He had it all the way to 10... Big pump, what board are you running? Something just isn't right.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump