Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-14-2013, 11:50 PM #1
WVMEDIC20 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Clarksburg, WV
WVMEDIC20 is playing at Living Legends VI
WVMEDIC20 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
WVMEDIC20 supports Team VICIOUS
WVMEDIC20 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
WVMEDIC20 supports DLX Technology
Exclamation Barrel Length...???

I have a general question about barrel lengths and peoples opinion. I have usually used a 16" barrel on my NXT or DLX guns with the freak kit and have moved to a CF Boomstick that is either 15" or 17".... Are there any real tangible benefits going with the 17" barrel over the 15" i.e distance, accuracy, quietness, trajectory, etc?

Thanks for the info and opinions.
WVMEDIC20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-15-2013, 07:16 AM #2
Parasite
Not Amused
 
Parasite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: PSL, FL
Annual Supporting Member
Parasite is a Moderator
Parasite is a Supporting Member
Parasite is a founding member
Parasite is BST Legit
Parasite donated to help Peyton Trent
Well, I'll be glad to share my $.02, but first, what do you think? You've shot both - can you see a difference?

To answer your question, only sound signature can be effected by barrel length; distance, accuracy & trajectory cannot. (emphasis on "length" - as all these factors can be effected in one way or another)
__________________

"When people get a little too chummy with me
I like to call them by the wrong name
to let them know I donít really care about them."

My oldschool PBN Feedback +48 Positive/ZERO negative : before the days of this "fancy" feedback system.
Parasite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 07:31 AM #3
ElJefe13
 
 
ElJefe13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Utah
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parasite View Post
Well, I'll be glad to share my $.02, but first, what do you think? You've shot both - can you see a difference?

To answer your question, only sound signature can be effected by barrel length; distance, accuracy & trajectory cannot. (emphasis on "length" - as all these factors can be effected in one way or another)
This. Also, a short (>12 inches) gets less efficiency, same if they get above 16 inches.
I'd definitely suggest going with the 15.
ElJefe13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:15 AM #4
Jinx18
Dynamic
 
Jinx18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Long Island
Jinx18 plays in the APPA D3 division
longer will be slightly more efficient and quieter
__________________
East Coast Dynamic!

Gearbag Sale!!!!!
Jinx18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:17 AM #5
crowntheking
 
 
crowntheking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: WI
Annual Supporting Member
crowntheking plays in the PSP
crowntheking is playing at Living Legends V
crowntheking is playing at Living Legends VI
crowntheking supports Team VICIOUS
crowntheking is Legendary
crowntheking supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx18
longer will be slightly more efficient and quieter
Oh is that right?

Efficiency is based on you boring (amount of space around ball in the barrel) and sound signature will be based on porting.
crowntheking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:22 AM #6
Jinx18
Dynamic
 
Jinx18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Long Island
Jinx18 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowntheking View Post
Oh is that right?

Efficiency is based on you boring (amount of space around ball in the barrel) and sound signature will be based on porting.

Yes it is right. The longer the barrel the longer the air used to propel can act on the ball. It will also be quieter since the pressure difference between the inside of the barrel and the atmosphere is lower.

Drop the attitude when you don't know what you're talking about.
__________________
East Coast Dynamic!

Gearbag Sale!!!!!
Jinx18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:24 AM #7
NJEmortal
The i3 Guy
 
NJEmortal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BattleCreek PB
Annual Supporting Member
NJEmortal is BST Legit
NJEmortal posts videos on PbNation
No real benefit, just preference and bunker manipulation. I agree with the comment above regarding efficiency and sound signature being affected by length.

14" to 15" seems to have the best sound signature with max efficiency.
Longer than 15" you'll see a slight decrease in FPS, from the 15", but a quieter shot.
Shorter than 14", you'll see a slight decrease in FPS, from the 14", less consistent over a chrono, and a louder shot.
NJEmortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:25 AM #8
crowntheking
 
 
crowntheking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: WI
Annual Supporting Member
crowntheking plays in the PSP
crowntheking is playing at Living Legends V
crowntheking is playing at Living Legends VI
crowntheking supports Team VICIOUS
crowntheking is Legendary
crowntheking supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx18

Yes it is right. The longer the barrel the longer the air used to propel can act on the ball. It will also be quieter since the pressure difference between the inside of the barrel and the atmosphere is lower.

Drop the attitude when you don't know what you're talking about.
I clearly know what I'm talking about. Are you implying that a longer barrel will be more efficient regardless of bore?
crowntheking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:30 AM #9
NJEmortal
The i3 Guy
 
NJEmortal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BattleCreek PB
Annual Supporting Member
NJEmortal is BST Legit
NJEmortal posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowntheking View Post
Oh is that right?

Efficiency is based on you boring (amount of space around ball in the barrel) and sound signature will be based on porting.
You're not wrong. Those are also factors in efficiency and sound signature, but he's asking about barrel length. If you jump from a 14" Deadlywind to an 18" Deadlywind, using the same insert, you'll see a 15-25 FPS drop which results in poorer efficiency.
NJEmortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:31 AM #10
Jinx18
Dynamic
 
Jinx18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Long Island
Jinx18 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowntheking View Post
I clearly know what I'm talking about. Are you implying that a longer barrel will be more efficient regardless of bore?
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if that is your response.

A 12" 0.689 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.689 barrel. The same applies to a 12" 0.691 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.691 barrel. The same applies to a 12" 0.679 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.679 barrel. See where I am going with this.

It makes no sense to say a 12" 0.679 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.689 barrel.
__________________
East Coast Dynamic!

Gearbag Sale!!!!!
Jinx18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 11:37 AM #11
crowntheking
 
 
crowntheking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: WI
Annual Supporting Member
crowntheking plays in the PSP
crowntheking is playing at Living Legends V
crowntheking is playing at Living Legends VI
crowntheking supports Team VICIOUS
crowntheking is Legendary
crowntheking supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx18

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if that is your response.

A 12" 0.689 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.689 barrel. The same applies to a 12" 0.691 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.691 barrel. The same applies to a 12" 0.679 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.679 barrel. See where I am going with this.

It makes no sense to say a 12" 0.679 barrel will be slightly less efficient and louder than a 14" 0.689 barrel.
That's not what I'm saying, a 12 .79 would be more efficient.
crowntheking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:31 PM #12
NJEmortal
The i3 Guy
 
NJEmortal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BattleCreek PB
Annual Supporting Member
NJEmortal is BST Legit
NJEmortal posts videos on PbNation
okay, so... I kinda have a lot of UL tips, a chrono, and a decibel meter. I'd be willing to film the test to see any benefit/draw to tip length while maintaining the same bore diameter, control bore length, and bore material.



Pictured is a 10", 12", 14", and 16"
NJEmortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:40 PM #13
hmcl281
 
 
hmcl281's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx18 View Post
longer will be slightly more efficient and quieter
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowntheking View Post
Oh is that right?

Efficiency is based on you boring (amount of space around ball in the barrel) and sound signature will be based on porting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx18 View Post
Yes it is right. The longer the barrel the longer the air used to propel can act on the ball. It will also be quieter since the pressure difference between the inside of the barrel and the atmosphere is lower.

Drop the attitude when you don't know what you're talking about.
the first post said longer barrel are more efficient, the second guy is questioning if that is true or not. we all know it's going to be less efficient if you keep going longer.


what's the max length for a barrel where the efficiency will start to go down, without porting?

Last edited by hmcl281 : 03-15-2013 at 01:51 PM.
hmcl281 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 03:09 PM #14
Jinx18
Dynamic
 
Jinx18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Long Island
Jinx18 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcl281 View Post
the first post said longer barrel are more efficient, the second guy is questioning if that is true or not. we all know it's going to be less efficient if you keep going longer.


what's the max length for a barrel where the efficiency will start to go down, without porting?
Yes there is obviously a length where the ball will start losing velocity. That happens when there is no more pressure differential acting on the ball. With a ported barrel it would be easiest to test since there are so many variables as well as not many combinations. Like NJEmortal said, take a Dye UL with a 10", 12", 14", 16" and whatever tips they make and run them over a chrono and see the velocity changes. I think that the length is going to be something way longer than what is generally accepted as a typical barrel length.

For unported you could get a rough idea (doesn't account for air escaping around the ball) using

P1V1=P2V2

P1= Pressure of dump chamber in spool valve bolt (HPR Pressure)
P2= Atmospheric pressure (14.696psi)
V1= Volume of Dump Chamber in spool valve bolt
V2= Solving for the volume here. This would be the volume of a barrel.

So

P1V1/P2=V2

Volume of a barrel is (pi)(r^2)(h)
r = diameter of barrel
h = length of barrel

Solve for length of barrel


That is a rough estimate of barrel length where velocity would start decreasing in an unported barrel.
__________________
East Coast Dynamic!

Gearbag Sale!!!!!

Last edited by Jinx18 : 03-15-2013 at 03:15 PM.
Jinx18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 03:34 PM #15
hmcl281
 
 
hmcl281's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
always thought the max control length length was 8 or 10 inches, can not remember where i read it from

the problem with using a dye barrel system is the control bore length is so short, the good thing is that the tips do come in so many lengths.
hmcl281 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 03:34 PM #16
ibunkerupwnd
it was all for lolz
 
ibunkerupwnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
ibunkerupwnd supports Team VICIOUS
ibunkerupwnd has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
ibunkerupwnd has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
ibunkerupwnd has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
So I'm looking I get a cf broomstick would the 17 inch 680 note be the quietest and most efficant
__________________
THERE IS A FAT KID ON EVERY PAINTBALL TEAM. IF YOU ARE THAT FAT KID, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG
HK Army
ibunkerupwnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 03:43 PM #17
NJEmortal
The i3 Guy
 
NJEmortal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BattleCreek PB
Annual Supporting Member
NJEmortal is BST Legit
NJEmortal posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcl281 View Post
always thought the max control length length was 8 or 10 inches, can not remember where i read it from

the problem with using a dye barrel system is the control bore length is so short, the good thing is that the tips do come in so many lengths.
I'd run it with a CFBoomie, longest control bore I can think of with a large tip variety.
NJEmortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 04:16 PM #18
hmcl281
 
 
hmcl281's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJEmortal View Post
I'd run it with a CFBoomie, longest control bore I can think of with a large tip variety.
i keep forgetting the newer dye backs are longer

you ever done a comparison between the older/shorter back with the newer/longer back with the same bore size?
hmcl281 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 05:11 PM #19
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Max control bore for efficiency is in the 9-10.5" range. The ported length after can affect efficiency to a small degree also.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 06:37 PM #20
Person
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Monterey California
Person is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Correct. For efficiency you are really looking at anything from 9-11 inches before you start needing more gas to push the ball out at good chrono speed.

in a 14 inch barrel like a Dye UL, or a freak, you literally have 4 inches of barrel, and 10 inches of muzzle brake..just venting gas waiting for the ball to get out of the barrel.

I always play with 12 inch barrels. If I needed to "wrap" in airball i guess I'd run a longer one. Normally I like not getting in my own way, though.

One way to test if you have a bunch of barrels is swap them out to the same gun and see what gives you the best velocity..that is the most efficient one.

Mostly guys like longer barrels because it makes it easier for them to aim.
__________________
E-Flex Lowers + Lens for Sale
Person is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 07:53 PM #21
Parasite
Not Amused
 
Parasite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: PSL, FL
Annual Supporting Member
Parasite is a Moderator
Parasite is a Supporting Member
Parasite is a founding member
Parasite is BST Legit
Parasite donated to help Peyton Trent
NJEmortal, I think that test you're suggesting would be great, as that relates to the op's question - what will be effected by changing tip length only.
__________________

"When people get a little too chummy with me
I like to call them by the wrong name
to let them know I donít really care about them."

My oldschool PBN Feedback +48 Positive/ZERO negative : before the days of this "fancy" feedback system.
Parasite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump