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Old 03-13-2013, 05:06 PM #1
Savage As F
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spyder amg upgrade help

I've recently come into possession of an old school spyder amg classic and I'm interested in bringing it up to date with some much needed upgrades. I've done some searching and I realize that a vast majority of comparable parts are very difficult to find but I hope you guys can help me out. So far I've gotten a new barrel, clamping feedback, some dye stickies for basic upgrades. I would like to have this gun running at low pressure (currently the lowest the reg goes is 450 but it might be malfunctioning. If anyone could point me In the right direction of a new bolt (delrin?) New valves, an asa to replace the stock reg/asa inline , drop that will fit, possibly striker, and if they are still being made even a new board, also some way to replace the stock expansion chamber with an inline reg (I've read that most are incomparable but I'm willing to do some modifications if I can get proper instructions. Thank you and I look forward to the suggestions!

looking for:

Compatable Inline regulator to replace xchamber
Bolt (lp?)
valve (lp)
drop/asa
new board

Last edited by Savage As F : 03-13-2013 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:06 PM #2
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For your valve see if you can get a hold of the Madman Rocket valve or AKA Tornado valve. You should look at the Shocktech bolts. For your regulator, you will need to track down an AMG vertical reg adapter. This might be the hardest thing to find.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:48 PM #3
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Thanks! do you know who makes the VA to replace the xchamber?
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:29 PM #4
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I think ACP made them. If not I'm not sure.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:31 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidalecent View Post
I think ACP made them. If not I'm not sure.
alamo city paintball? Their website goes to some chinese website and their phone is disconnected :/ looks like they went out of business
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:50 PM #6
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They did, I forgot to say you may need to find it in good condition used. If you can't find it, I have seen Shocktech bolts still around. Just be sure to get the proper bolt for your marker since there are a ton of different Spyder models.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:07 AM #7
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The Vertical Adapter will be very difficult to find. But just an fyi it was made by this guy name soccerdude and ApOc. Honestly the volume chamber isn't that bad. What I do recommend is a quality bottomline regulator (Female Palmers Stabilizer Bottomline). Recket Valve is good, but honestly I recommend the EKO valve. It's cheaper and is very efficient when tuned properly. Bolts.. you can get some online. Shocktech is good and will get the job done for cheap.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:23 AM #8
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I just found this list, it has a ton of upgrades listed by category for Spyders. Keep in mind some of the companies have gone out of business, and some products are no longer made. I hope it helps.

http://www.specialopspaintball.com/f...howtopic=12752
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:58 PM #9
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Update.
So I found out I live 5 mins away from Palmers pursuit! Went In there and they're gonna make me a custom adapter for an inline stabilizer woot! Only 50 bucks too, having that major problem solved now I just need to get ahold of a good bolt and valve set and I'm set! Thank you guys for the help and if you have anymore suggestions where to get a bolt valve kit or new board I'm all ears
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:08 PM #10
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You lucky duck you! Palmers is so great I'm glad you found that adapter. You should keep this thread posted with photos as you update you gun. :3
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:12 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage As F View Post
Update.
So I found out I live 5 mins away from Palmers pursuit! Went In there and they're gonna make me a custom adapter for an inline stabilizer woot! Only 50 bucks too, having that major problem solved now I just need to get ahold of a good bolt and valve set and I'm set! Thank you guys for the help and if you have anymore suggestions where to get a bolt valve kit or new board I'm all ears
Bastard... I envy you.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:27 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidalecent View Post
They did, I forgot to say you may need to find it in good condition used. If you can't find it, I have seen Shocktech bolts still around. Just be sure to get the proper bolt for your marker since there are a ton of different Spyder models.
Where you been That was a few years ago. If you can find the ACP products, do it. Your next best bet would be finding a shocktech or orange bolt (basically the same).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opteron-O3 View Post
Rocket Valve is good, but honestly I recommend the EKO valve. It's cheaper and is very efficient when tuned properly.
Rocket Valve >>>> EKO and not a huge price difference if your the kind of person getting custom parts made for an old AMG. If you go the EKO route then stop by the hardware store and find a set screw because the old brass screws dont work with the new valves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage As F View Post
Update.
So I found out I live 5 mins away from Palmers pursuit! Went In there and they're gonna make me a custom adapter for an inline stabilizer woot! Only 50 bucks too, having that major problem solved now I just need to get ahold of a good bolt and valve set and I'm set! Thank you guys for the help and if you have anymore suggestions where to get a bolt valve kit or new board I'm all ears
Well I'd recommend finding out what you want exactly then looking in the b/s/t and throwing want to buy thread up. I'd recommend you need barrel feedneck and a loader regardless of your mods, its no fun playing shake n' bake with a nicer gun and then not being able to hit anything because of a broken paint and a jacked barrel.

Barrel- 10,12,14" are the most common sizes you'll find, look for bore sizes .686-.690 for spyder. J&J and Custom Products are good starter barrels that will serve you well.

Feedneck- there are 3 types of spyder feednecks, you have a tabbed with holes. I'd recommend getting a Custom Chipley mills feedneck but you can get pretty much whatever, Trinity makes probably the cheapest, or you could even go through the effort to mod an EGO feed to it.


Next- reg/ valve/ springs

reg- amg's are the hardest to deal with so good job

Valve- http://www.maddmanproducts.com/Home_...et_valves.html Best valve give or take, you can try to find it cheaper if you want. If you call kingman directly they will sell you any parts you want so you can get an EKO valve and pin like the 2012 fenix use. Other cheap options are New designs and Magna port if you want to give them a go you'll get similar performance to the EKO.

springs- You will want a spring kit for the valve and the striker. They need to be lighter. IIRC the AMG has a goofy long front valve spring which will make finding one difficult, but the rocket valve doesn't need as its built in. You will need the rear striker springs for a light-med spring.


Details- opening up air and smooth operation.

-bolt, The bolt isn't going to be magic game changer, while you look for a newer delring bolt with 2 orings. Remove the venturi (reverse threads, loosen to the right) and if you have a friend with a lathe have them lighten everything on behind the the orings. This will give some gains near that aftermarkets bolts will improve only marginally.

-Bottom line- you need something to replace your bottom line. IF you get a basic ASA like off an autocoker and then get some macro line you can make it work. Otherwise, you will need a rail adapter for most on/off asa to mount. *I can't remember if the AMG has diagonal hole or inline holes in the bottome of the grip, but if they are diagonal you will need either an adapter or to drill and tap for 10-32 holes.*

Bonues items-

Trigger- CP and possibly and used SPPS will be an addition.
Switch- anything under 100gram would be nice, SPPS had the best options and had 25g and 50g so maybe someone has those up for grabs. If not radio shack has roller micro switchs that might be lighter than the 250g switch the amg comes with. VS/RS and 08 and newer (pilot, electra, fenix) WILL NOT WORK)
Boards- Virtue board is probably the easiest to work with right now, but if you want Scenario dreams still has generic board you could inquire about.
Grips- trinity made nice sticky grips i'd recomend you pick up, otherwise you could make something out of lexan like everyone else.


Possible alternate route- Pick up a gen1 or gen 2 timmy or enough parts to make it work and roll with that. Honestly a viably cheaper option in some cases these days.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:21 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret15 View Post
Where you been That was a few years ago. If you can find the ACP products, do it. Your next best bet would be finding a shocktech or orange bolt (basically the same).

Rocket Valve >>>> EKO and not a huge price difference if your the kind of person getting custom parts made for an old AMG. If you go the EKO route then stop by the hardware store and find a set screw because the old brass screws dont work with the new valves.



Well I'd recommend finding out what you want exactly then looking in the b/s/t and throwing want to buy thread up. I'd recommend you need barrel feedneck and a loader regardless of your mods, its no fun playing shake n' bake with a nicer gun and then not being able to hit anything because of a broken paint and a jacked barrel.

Barrel- 10,12,14" are the most common sizes you'll find, look for bore sizes .686-.690 for spyder. J&J and Custom Products are good starter barrels that will serve you well.

Feedneck- there are 3 types of spyder feednecks, you have a tabbed with holes. I'd recommend getting a Custom Chipley mills feedneck but you can get pretty much whatever, Trinity makes probably the cheapest, or you could even go through the effort to mod an EGO feed to it.


Next- reg/ valve/ springs

reg- amg's are the hardest to deal with so good job

Valve- http://www.maddmanproducts.com/Home_...et_valves.html Best valve give or take, you can try to find it cheaper if you want. If you call kingman directly they will sell you any parts you want so you can get an EKO valve and pin like the 2012 fenix use. Other cheap options are New designs and Magna port if you want to give them a go you'll get similar performance to the EKO.

springs- You will want a spring kit for the valve and the striker. They need to be lighter. IIRC the AMG has a goofy long front valve spring which will make finding one difficult, but the rocket valve doesn't need as its built in. You will need the rear striker springs for a light-med spring.


Details- opening up air and smooth operation.

-bolt, The bolt isn't going to be magic game changer, while you look for a newer delring bolt with 2 orings. Remove the venturi (reverse threads, loosen to the right) and if you have a friend with a lathe have them lighten everything on behind the the orings. This will give some gains near that aftermarkets bolts will improve only marginally.

-Bottom line- you need something to replace your bottom line. IF you get a basic ASA like off an autocoker and then get some macro line you can make it work. Otherwise, you will need a rail adapter for most on/off asa to mount. *I can't remember if the AMG has diagonal hole or inline holes in the bottome of the grip, but if they are diagonal you will need either an adapter or to drill and tap for 10-32 holes.*

Bonues items-

Trigger- CP and possibly and used SPPS will be an addition.
Switch- anything under 100gram would be nice, SPPS had the best options and had 25g and 50g so maybe someone has those up for grabs. If not radio shack has roller micro switchs that might be lighter than the 250g switch the amg comes with. VS/RS and 08 and newer (pilot, electra, fenix) WILL NOT WORK)
Boards- Virtue board is probably the easiest to work with right now, but if you want Scenario dreams still has generic board you could inquire about.
Grips- trinity made nice sticky grips i'd recomend you pick up, otherwise you could make something out of lexan like everyone else.


Possible alternate route- Pick up a gen1 or gen 2 timmy or enough parts to make it work and roll with that. Honestly a viably cheaper option in some cases these days.

Thanks for the great suggestions! So far this is my setup:
14" dye 2 piece barrel
Halo invert too loader
Red dye sticky (ugly but comfortable) more info on the grips you mentioned would be awesome
Modded stock bolt
Polished internals
Custom va from pps (being made this week)
Pps stabilizer
Blade trigger
Low rise clamping feedneck
Dye 68/4500 hpa
Waiting for a spring kit and o ring rebuild kit in the mail

Still need:
Bolt (prolly shockech, waiting for a call back to see if it will fit)
Striker (not sure what one yet)
Valve (looks like rocket is the way to go)
Better grips
ASA
Board (virtue?) w/ soldered switch
Also I was thinking to mod it to electro pneumatic, you guys know any good guides or resources for that?
Also, how difficult would it be to install eyes?
Thank you guys for the input, its appreciated!

Last edited by Savage As F : 03-15-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:42 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage As F View Post
Thanks for the great suggestions! So far this is my setup:
14" dye 2 piece barrel
Halo invert too loader
Red dye sticky (ugly but comfortable) more info on the grips you mentioned would be awesome
Modded stock bolt
Polished internals
Custom va from pps (being made this week)
Pps stabilizer
Dye 68/4500 hpa
Waiting for a spring kit and o ring rebuild kit in the mail

Still need:
Bolt (prolly shockech, waiting for a call back to see if it will fit)
Striker (not sure what one yet)
Valve (looks like rocket is the way to go)
Better grips
ASA
Board (virtue?) w/ soldered switch
Also I was thinking to mod it to electro pneumatic, you guys know any good guides or resources for that?
Also, how difficult would it be to install eyes?
Thank you guys for the input, its appreciated!
Get your gun working smoothly should be priority if you have the basic barrel, loader,tank covered. Once your adapter is built mount the new regulator, replace the bottom line , get a spring kit and see how your doing. Then get yourself a rocket valve and re-tune everything.

The way your building your AMG it will be better to keep it blowback and stick with the program. EP on a AMG is one of the more challenging projects, I suggest you search "spyder AMG spimmy" and start your research there if you really want to go that route.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:22 PM #15
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Right on, right now the gun works fine for the most part. The stock ASA/reg isn't working right so its very inconsistent. I'm trying to mod it for lp, hence the bolt and valve replacements plus reg. Quick question, am I going to need to get a lpc as well? Also would getting a virtue board with eyes be redundant? With my invert loader I don't really chop balls.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:43 PM #16
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Lpc for for looks on an lp. Virtue board will give more options like psp mode ect. Eyes are always a redundancy but can be usefull. I wouldn't put then to high of a prioraty.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:46 PM #17
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Eyes always help you to not chop balls. They tell the gun whether it's safe to fire or not. Your loaders eyes will tell the loader when there is a ball in the stack. So if you have the adapter from PPS then you can put your new reg on it. There are adapter plates to mount a better ASA, or you could get an ASA that is specifically made for older Spyders. Either route should work fine.

http://www.e-paintball.com/shocktech...ter-block.html
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:37 PM #18
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350-450psi is the pressure range to get the best performance out of most spyders.
It doesn't matter how large the hole is for the one going into the bolt, the hole from the top tube to the bottom tube is the same size, and will negate all attempts to increase flow into the bolt. Also, once you have a paintball firing at 300fps at X pressure you may find your gun won't recock until you turn it up several hundred psi and encounter what I did once, a gun that won't shoot at field speeds, cycling at a minimum of ~330fps. Fortunately, a change of valve allowed me to restart.

What you want to do is mill down the end of the valve pin(or find a thinner one) to increase the flow to the striker to recock the gun at a lower pressure. You also will find it beneficial to round the corners of the cup seal, to help with air flow, every little bit makes a big difference.
like this:

Also, take some type of tape(I suggest electrical) and wrap the valve spring. You don't want the moving air coming in contact with the spring, you want it to flow smoothly over it, the spring will cause turbulence, hurting your flow.

The trick to a smooth shot, efficiency, and low operating pressure with a spyder is to waste as little energy as you can to recock the gun.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:47 PM #19
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Interesting. Seeing as I don't own a mill, could Sanding the valve pin be an option? Also, for the cup seal, is that not the white plastic piece with the 4 pointed star thing? Wouldn't taping the spring cause the chamber to have less volume as well as hindering it's ability to compress? Interesting suggestions, I guess I'm just not familiar enough yet with how the valve operates to understand these mods. Elaborate please good sir!
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:02 PM #20
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Interesting. Seeing as I don't own a mill, could Sanding the valve pin be an option? Also, for the cup seal, is that not the white plastic piece with the 4 pointed star thing? Wouldn't taping the spring cause the chamber to have less volume as well as hindering it's ability to compress? Interesting suggestions, I guess I'm just not familiar enough yet with how the valve operates to understand these mods. Elaborate please good sir!
Its not the volume, its the flow. The silver grip is a volume chamber. If you can get the flow high enough you don't need the volume. If you use volume as opposed to flow you use more air and efficiency goes down. The AMG spring is very small and spring, so you shouldn't lose much. However, you will have to replace the tape every so often as the compression and expansion begins to mess with the tape. Which is why electrical tape is best. It is rubber and will stretch with the spring, it also comes off easily with little residue.

The white thing on the end is a sup seal from a spyder VS2. If you notice, they milled down the valve stem(silver thing) so it flows through the valve to recock the striker chamber to recock the gun and the cupseal itself so the air doesn't have to make as sharp of a turn.
This valve stem is the only reason the VS series of markers operate at 300psi.
If you can find a VS valve stem go ahead and buy it and save yourself a lot of trouble. It will just drop right in without any modification. You don't need an entirely new valve, just the stem and cupsteal.
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Last edited by Paper_Cut : 03-18-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:42 PM #21
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VS Valve stems won't work without modifications. They use the balanced valve system.
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