Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-10-2013, 03:42 AM #1
RunNgun42
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Accuracy - overrated or achievable?

I'm sure we've all seen these silly sniper rifle style paintball guns with 26" barrels and scopes and so forth, and I think it's safe to say that it's impossible to accurately shoot a round ball of paint on target at over 30 yards. Yet barrel replacements still seem to be awfully popular for your typical marker, with people claiming an additional 2" actually improves accuracy by some indiscernible amount.

So my question is; is the hunt for accuracy overrated? Are paintballs not inherently inaccurate, and going to these great lengths to improve their accuracy is probably a fools errand? It seems to me like your money would be better spent on your tank/hopper/mask/gear/everything else but accuracy.

If I am completely wrong and it truly is possible to significantly improve paintball accuracy then please let me know.
RunNgun42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-10-2013, 04:45 AM #2
kevgodee
 
 
kevgodee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Wisconsin
kevgodee is playing at Living Legends VI
kevgodee is an NCPA player
kevgodee plays in the APPA beginner division
kevgodee has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunNgun42 View Post
I'm sure we've all seen these silly sniper rifle style paintball guns with 26" barrels and scopes and so forth, and I think it's safe to say that it's impossible to accurately shoot a round ball of paint on target at over 30 yards. Yet barrel replacements still seem to be awfully popular for your typical marker, with people claiming an additional 2" actually improves accuracy by some indiscernible amount.

So my question is; is the hunt for accuracy overrated? Are paintballs not inherently inaccurate, and going to these great lengths to improve their accuracy is probably a fools errand? It seems to me like your money would be better spent on your tank/hopper/mask/gear/everything else but accuracy.

If I am completely wrong and it truly is possible to significantly improve paintball accuracy then please let me know.
I think having a 26" barrel would drastically decrease the accuracy of a marker due to the fact that after about 12-14 inches, the pressure drops and any extra inches just create friction on the paintball. The only purpose of a longer barrel is that it can make your gun shoot quieter. Also I have noticed in the winter longer barrels (like 16" ) shoot better then my (14") because the air needs more time to expand.
kevgodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 07:06 AM #3
Nahib_Stilgar
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Correct Length of barrel is not the way to improve your accuracy.

Practicing hitting what you are aiming at is! A shooter is accurate, their gun is consistent.

As stated above, the paintball its self is not a good projectile...round ball, non uniform shape and fill...

To help improve any chances of hitting a target the player must do what they can to make their gun as consistent as possible so that the paintball leaves the barrel exactly (or as close as possible to exactly) the same way each time the trigger is pulled.

To achieve this you can do a few things.

1) Make sure your gun is decently regulated so that it is not experiencing random spikes and drops in air/co2 pressure.

2) Forget a LONG barrel. (I multiple barrels from 5.25" to 14" and can hit what I want) Get a barrel or barrel kit that allows you to size the paint to fit the bore of the barrel properly. There is a lot of discussion about over and underbore, people have done tests...results vary, however the consensus seems to be that underboring by a small bit is the best way to ensure consistency.

To do this, you should put a paintball in back of your barrel, it should be snug, you should not see light around the ball if you look down the barrel. The ball should not want to roll through the barrel but if you were to blow into the barrel it should eventually pop out the other end.

3) Buy GOOD paint! If your paint is uniform in size and shape you have a better chance at achieving consistency! This usually means the stuff that has been sitting on the shelf for 3 years at Walmart is not going to help your cause.

Old paint, bad paint...is often of random size and shape. It may have deformities (I have seen paintballs look like almonds) or dimples...and the fill may have settled making on side heavier than the other...

If you want a good shot...use good paint.



If you do manage to make your gun consistent you still need to make yourself accurate!

for example. The Barret 50 cal sniper rifle will consistently put a bullet down range in the exact place it was pointed...but if the gun was not AIMED at the target it will MISS!!

Same thing happens in paintball. If you do not aim properly you wont hit what you are shooting at.

Paintballs fly at sub 300 fps, this means their trajectory is much more parabolic than a bullet. To achieve a shot at a greater distance you will have to aim higher...you get the idea.

Practice shooting your gun at different ranges, understand how you and your gun perform.

When you and your gun are comfortable at hitting targets at different ranges, do it from behind cover. Hide, pop out, shoot, and hide again. Do this until you can 'Snap shoot' the target you want to hit at the range you want to hit.
Nahib_Stilgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 01:29 PM #4
cpt_crunch
 
 
cpt_crunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
cpt_crunch has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
I actually wrote a very long paper about this a few years ago. The trouble is that a sphere is not very aerodynamic, it creates a huge pressure differential when it flies. Unfortunately your stuck with the sphere unless you go to first strikes and rifling the barrel enough to have a noticeable effect will break the ball.
What you want your barrel to do is put a very small spin on the ball, ideally backspin, which gives the ball aerodynamic stability. You don't need the kind of spin produced by a flatline or apex just a little bit to prevent the ball from being a floater. A floater (a not spinning ball) flies erratically and is unpredictable.

The other thing your barrel must do is put the same amount of spin on each time, that is make it consistent. This means that the ball may not be flying straight and flat but it does hit the same spot each time, you can then adjust your aim.

What your marker must do is fire the ball at the same velocity each time. this helps with consistency again.

get a regulated marker running on HPA. Get a bore sizing kit. Get nice paint. That is as accurate as you will get. (unless you get first strikes). Are these investments worth it? Heck yes. Compare junk paint in a spyder with stock barrel to tournament paint in a bore sized barrel and regulated gun, worlds apart.
__________________
Christian
Senior Mechanical Engineering Student
Apprentice Machinist
Lover of All Things Paintball
cpt_crunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 01:40 PM #5
Rebel_816
Don't eat that....
 
Rebel_816's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lynn, AR
in short your right....spherical objects dont fly straight....thats why we dont use muskets anymore...

but, better paint that is more consistant in shape and size, will shoot straighter than ones that arent. better paint will always make a bigger difference than your barrel.

one reason people buy different barrels is because of the internal bore. most stock barrels are around .691 on the internal bore...but paint the last few years has dropped down to around .682-.684 from what ive seen. so that leaves some "wiggle room" around the ball for air to escape past....now this goes back to consistancy: cheaper paints are less consistant in size...so one ball might fit a little tighter in said bore, so less air escapes around it and is wasted...so it goes a little farther than the next one thats a lot smaller since more air escapes around it instead of pushing it down the barrel. each ball is leaving the barrel at a different velocity.

you could say that consistency leads to better accuracy, so a lot of people run a slight "underbore" than what their paint is. meaning their barrel is just a hair smaller than their paint so the least amount of air escapes around the ball (this helps efficiency too). no this doesnt break more paint than an "overbore", think of it more like a gentle squeeze. you want them to fit snug in the barrel but still be able to blow them out ideally...were not trying to cram a golf ball through a garden hose.

practice helps too, youd be surpised how bad your aim is once you start running some drills. i know i was lol. most people tend to fire off a stream of paint and walk their shots in to the target, but if you can get used to your setup and learn where your body is actually pointing you'll get better at hitting people with those first couple of shots.

anything past a 16" barrel is pointless imo, just wastes air and is harder to maneuver around your bunker.
__________________
Rapper

Last edited by Rebel_816 : 03-10-2013 at 01:44 PM.
Rebel_816 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 02:36 PM #6
Paper_Cut
Keyboard Warrior
 
Paper_Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Annual Supporting Member
Let me point out that a consistent gun is not an easy task. The best guns are lucky to get +/-10fps

This whole "good paint" argument isn't quite true. The shell on say marbs, or evil, or DXS gold is very thin. The atmosphere is going to start to effect the shell much faster than paint with a slightly thicker shell. In speedball is short range, and if you're in a tourney the paint is very fresh, so that is why its good for that scenario. However, if you're just showing up at the field the high end stuff might not be the best choice. Fields try their best to keep the paint in a nice environment and not order too much, however, you can't expect to provide your customers with their paint needs(and not run out) without buying a little extra.

and despite what people seem to believe, cheap paint does not necessarily mean bad paint. As long as it is from a reputable company, fresh paint is going to be pretty good, the difference is the expensive paint they leave in the dehydrator a little bit longer and they use more expensive dyes and thickeners on the filling and shell.
Paper_Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 02:49 PM #7
MstrKey
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SSM, Ontario, Canada
MstrKey is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
MstrKey is for the Gunfight
MstrKey supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel_816 View Post
in short your right....spherical objects dont fly straight....thats why we dont use muskets anymore...

but, better paint that is more consistant in shape and size, will shoot straighter than ones that arent. better paint will always make a bigger difference than your barrel.

one reason people buy different barrels is because of the internal bore. most stock barrels are around .691 on the internal bore...but paint the last few years has dropped down to around .682-.684 from what ive seen. so that leaves some "wiggle room" around the ball for air to escape past....now this goes back to consistancy: cheaper paints are less consistant in size...so one ball might fit a little tighter in said bore, so less air escapes around it and is wasted...so it goes a little farther than the next one thats a lot smaller since more air escapes around it instead of pushing it down the barrel. each ball is leaving the barrel at a different velocity.

you could say that consistency leads to better accuracy, so a lot of people run a slight "underbore" than what their paint is. meaning their barrel is just a hair smaller than their paint so the least amount of air escapes around the ball (this helps efficiency too). no this doesnt break more paint than an "overbore", think of it more like a gentle squeeze. you want them to fit snug in the barrel but still be able to blow them out ideally...were not trying to cram a golf ball through a garden hose.

practice helps too, youd be surpised how bad your aim is once you start running some drills. i know i was lol. most people tend to fire off a stream of paint and walk their shots in to the target, but if you can get used to your setup and learn where your body is actually pointing you'll get better at hitting people with those first couple of shots.

anything past a 16" barrel is pointless imo, just wastes air and is harder to maneuver around your bunker.
Yup.....even swat and special forces teams practise shooting on the fly without a lot of aiming time. They use guns that are far more accurate and still need to practice. So should anyone playing paintball.

Use good paint. You can rotate it before you use it for best results. Keep your gun clean!! Barrel, breech and hopper. Make sure everything is lubed up nice and then practice.

Running and shooting, run stop then shoot, shooting standing, shooting kneeling, shooting from your belly(all your levels). I suggest a lot of one ball snap shooting drills since they hone your innate accuracy better than shooting streams.
__________________

Black/Purple Spire F/s. Freshly updated from Virtue.
MstrKey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:08 PM #8
IrockanEGO
Ohio baller
 
IrockanEGO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
IrockanEGO has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
To put things simply, if you want accuracy, use the best quality paintballs you can buy and make sure your gun, loader, and barrel is clean. A higher end paintball is rounder and has smaller seams so it flies straighter.

A longer barrel or a barrel with rifling wont increase accuracy. That works for lead bullets, not gelatin balls.
IrockanEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:52 PM #9
Rebel_816
Don't eat that....
 
Rebel_816's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lynn, AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paper_Cut View Post
Let me point out that a consistent gun is not an easy task. The best guns are lucky to get +/-10fps

and despite what people seem to believe, cheap paint does not necessarily mean bad paint. As long as it is from a reputable company, fresh paint is going to be pretty good.
these are both really good points, in my opinion if a gun is getting less than +/- 5fps over a chrono its doing amazing. and ive been really pleased with empires heat paint lately, which is one of their bottom end paints.
__________________
Rapper
Rebel_816 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 07:58 PM #10
RunNgun42
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Thanks guys, everything you say sums up what the paintball shop told me today. Having constant air pressure (HPA instead of co2) and good paint (so the fluid stays uniform inside and so the skin of the ball doesnt deform altering ballistics) is the best way to get your balls to go where you want them. It might not work with the ladies, but it works on the field.
RunNgun42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 10:24 PM #11
Dark Side
You will know the power
 
Dark Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Annual Supporting Member
Dark Side is BST Trusted
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunNgun42 View Post
Thanks guys, everything you say sums up what the paintball shop told me today. Having constant air pressure (HPA instead of co2) and good paint (so the fluid stays uniform inside and so the skin of the ball doesnt deform altering ballistics) is the best way to get your balls to go where you want them. It might not work with the ladies, but it works on the field.
That part is a complete lie and any shop that tells you that should never be visited again. Regulation is the key, regardless of your air source. You can run CO2 toe to toe with a good reg. Get a Palmer's Stabilizer and see for yourself.
__________________
WTB

07/08 Ego Vici Board
Dust Black ShockTech AutoCocker snatch grip
Dark Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 10:31 PM #12
Sirriko
WAKA WAKA
 
Sirriko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Great White North
Annual Supporting Member
Sirriko is playing at Living Legends VI
Sirriko owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
Sirriko supports Team VICIOUS
Sirriko supports Team VICIOUS
Sirriko posts videos on PbNation
Sirriko has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
A longer barrel just increases the overall range allowing you to shoot farther not more accurately. Check the barrel stickies on the ultimate barrel test, everything you need to know is there. But however after a certain length your gun is just using to much pressure to allow the ball to travel through the barrel and you use more air. It's a very minute issue.
__________________
I used to be a professional paintball player, then I took a paintball to the knee...


Canadian eh? Would you like a donut?
Sirriko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 11:49 PM #13
Rebel_816
Don't eat that....
 
Rebel_816's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lynn, AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side View Post
That part is a complete lie and any shop that tells you that should never be visited again. Regulation is the key, regardless of your air source. You can run CO2 toe to toe with a good reg. Get a Palmer's Stabilizer and see for yourself.
except a palmers stabilizer is almost the same price as an hpa tank.
__________________
Rapper
Rebel_816 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 12:12 AM #14
poontocky
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
poontocky owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
do rifeled barrels make a difference?

Last edited by poontocky : 03-11-2013 at 12:16 AM.
poontocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 01:06 AM #15
IrockanEGO
Ohio baller
 
IrockanEGO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
IrockanEGO has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by poontocky View Post
do rifeled barrels make a difference?
yeah, they make it worse
IrockanEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 01:54 AM #16
eforce
Factory PB
 
eforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Annual Supporting Member
eforce is a Moderator
eforce plays in the PSP
eforce is an NCPA player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side View Post
That part is a complete lie and any shop that tells you that should never be visited again. Regulation is the key, regardless of your air source. You can run CO2 toe to toe with a good reg. Get a Palmer's Stabilizer and see for yourself.
... or the shop that tells you CO2 is less consistent than HPA knows that you're probably not buying a stabilizer if you have to ask that question, and if you have the money for a stabilizer you're much better off ditching CO2 altogether, buying a HPA tank, unless only CO2 is available where you play. The statement may not be technically correct for all cases, but for the vast majority of customers, HPA is a better choice if it fits your budget. It's like carbs vs fuel injection - you may be able to put out the same performance numbers with carbs, but the average joe is better off buying FI from the start.
eforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 04:09 AM #17
SKI008
Fear my Join Date
 
SKI008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side View Post
That part is a complete lie and any shop that tells you that should never be visited again. Regulation is the key, regardless of your air source. You can run CO2 toe to toe with a good reg. Get a Palmer's Stabilizer and see for yourself.
No that's not a complete lie, it's the truth for the vast majority of people running CO2. I don't think I've ever seen a Palmer's stabilizer actually in use in nearly 10 years of playing. The shop owner knows the average CO2 user doesn't know what a regulator does and that's why he's likely to say that.

It is possible to make CO2 close to as good as HPA but the cost to do so makes that a terrible idea for the most part. Good HPA tanks can be had for so cheap these days unless you have a very compelling reason not to run HPA (the only reason I can think of is a lack of places to get it filled) there's no reason to drop $150+ on a good CO2 system when you could get an HPA tank.
__________________
This line is in remembrance of Jared Wilson, friend and paintball teammate who died on 7/27/2005.
My Old Feedback +1/-0 |
SKI008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 08:00 AM #18
NickRowell
Did you read the rules?
 
NickRowell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Katy Texas
NickRowell owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
NickRowell owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
NickRowell supports Team VICIOUS
NickRowell supports Team VICIOUS
NickRowell supports Pev's Paintball
Here's the deal. NO paintball is exactly alike, there fore the amount of pressure hitting the ball will affect the ball differently Everytime. Accuracy is solely dependent on the paintball, that's where the boring factor comes in.
__________________
UPC Apostolic Pentecostal

MARQ CLAN
You Know You Want My Rotor!
NickRowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 08:13 AM #19
JC001
CrownPB
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Washington, DC
JC001 plays in the PSP
JC001 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
JC001 posts videos on PbNation
JC001 plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunNgun42 View Post
I'm sure we've all seen these silly sniper rifle style paintball guns with 26" barrels and scopes and so forth, and I think it's safe to say that it's impossible to accurately shoot a round ball of paint on target at over 30 yards. Yet barrel replacements still seem to be awfully popular for your typical marker, with people claiming an additional 2" actually improves accuracy by some indiscernible amount.

So my question is; is the hunt for accuracy overrated? Are paintballs not inherently inaccurate, and going to these great lengths to improve their accuracy is probably a fools errand? It seems to me like your money would be better spent on your tank/hopper/mask/gear/everything else but accuracy.

If I am completely wrong and it truly is possible to significantly improve paintball accuracy then please let me know.

Accuracy is achieved through hard work and dedication. Keep practicing and it shall come. As far as barrels, as long as its a good make (Freak, Macdev, Planet Eclipse, Dye, many others) and not underbored by too much it will should shoot nice and straight
JC001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 09:53 AM #20
Dark Side
You will know the power
 
Dark Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Annual Supporting Member
Dark Side is BST Trusted
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKI008 View Post
No that's not a complete lie, it's the truth for the vast majority of people running CO2. I don't think I've ever seen a Palmer's stabilizer actually in use in nearly 10 years of playing. The shop owner knows the average CO2 user doesn't know what a regulator does and that's why he's likely to say that.

It is possible to make CO2 close to as good as HPA but the cost to do so makes that a terrible idea for the most part. Good HPA tanks can be had for so cheap these days unless you have a very compelling reason not to run HPA (the only reason I can think of is a lack of places to get it filled) there's no reason to drop $150+ on a good CO2 system when you could get an HPA tank.
$150? I'd love to argue the price of a new Stab but Palmer's isn't coming up for me right now.


The vast majority of outlaw ball is played with CO2 right? At least it is where I grew up and have played since. Lugging around Scuba tanks in an area that no one dives in can be very problematic. So yes, we agree on that portion of the argument.

I've spoken with plenty of shop owners and operators in my time playing and operating a field. Most are incompetent and only willing to sell you what they are being pushed.

Regulation or rather the lack of is with CO2 is disliked. Regulate CO2 properly and it will perform on par with HPA. And yes, I have tested this across a crono.
__________________
WTB

07/08 Ego Vici Board
Dust Black ShockTech AutoCocker snatch grip
Dark Side is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:28 AM #21
MstrKey
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SSM, Ontario, Canada
MstrKey is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
MstrKey is for the Gunfight
MstrKey supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side View Post
$150? I'd love to argue the price of a new Stab but Palmer's isn't coming up for me right now.


The vast majority of outlaw ball is played with CO2 right? At least it is where I grew up and have played since. Lugging around Scuba tanks in an area that no one dives in can be very problematic. So yes, we agree on that portion of the argument.

I've spoken with plenty of shop owners and operators in my time playing and operating a field. Most are incompetent and only willing to sell you what they are being pushed.

Regulation or rather the lack of is with CO2 is disliked. Regulate CO2 properly and it will perform on par with HPA. And yes, I have tested this across a crono.

Meh.....it just depends what type of paintball you play. If you're just woods balling and plucking a few shots off here and there, run straight CO2, it won't matter. If you're dumping 1000 rounds a game why would you want to use CO2?
__________________

Black/Purple Spire F/s. Freshly updated from Virtue.
MstrKey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump