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Old 03-07-2013, 01:22 AM #43
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
Would it have been acceptable to shoot down the 9/11 attackers? How about those that hijacked Flight 79?

I'll bite. If you are 100% without a doubt sure that something like this is taking place you must do what is needed to protect the majority. It's a career ending call and one must live with either as a consequence. It's not something I would ever want to make a decision on. Do you kill 200 to save 1000, especially if they're going to die anyway? Yes. Will the public understand? Probably not. You're ****ed either way.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:37 AM #44
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You mean like when the police bust down the door and shoot the occupants and end up having the wrong house?
Cops acting as judge, jury and executioner? I think that's exactly the issue with drone strikes, a lack of due process.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:06 AM #45
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Looks like it ended at 1AM.

"I've discovered that there are some limits to filibustering, and I am going to have to take care of one of those in a few minutes here," - Rand Paul said to laughter, after thanking his supporters, staff and U.S. Capitol employees.


Lrn2filibuster

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:38 AM #46
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Rand, that's why we took Gatorade bottles to post with us.

He quoted Jay-Z and The Godfather

I'm glad someone in Congress decided to do their job and address this issue. Perhaps, all is not lost.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:15 AM #47
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Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Already deleted that post, just because I haven't researched this issue enough to comment really.

But what you quoted was just an example where a drone strike might be a reasonable, and not an inherently evil, solution to a conflict, leaving constitutionality out if it.
You know, I seem to remember liberals going nuts over the bush presidency. The pendulum swings both ways my friend. It is to be expected, this day and age, that much cold prickly feelings will be thrown at rivals in power.

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Old 03-07-2013, 10:30 AM #48
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Didn't Obama justify killing that child of the terrorist overseas (the child was a us citizen) with a missile from a drone as part of this same justification he is using now to have the right to kill other Americans on US soil?

Imagine being 16, and YOUR DAD was a bad guy. Well, Obama can now kill you because of the actions of your parents. While you are sipping coffee in a cafe minding your own business...

That is the new America under these liberals...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ntroversy?lite


No wonder Rand Paul did what he did... This has gotten completely out of hand.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:40 AM #49
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Didn't Obama justify killing that child of the terrorist overseas (the child was a us citizen) with a missile from a drone as part of this same justification he is using now to have the right to kill other Americans on US soil?

Imagine being 16, and YOUR DAD was a bad guy. Well, Obama can now kill you because of the actions of your parents. While you are sipping coffee in a cafe minding your own business...

That is the new America under these liberals...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ntroversy?lite


No wonder Rand Paul did what he did... This has gotten completely out of hand.
America under these liberals? Are you forgetting the republicans that provided the other 50% of this mess? It was that dicktater Bush's that started killing folks with drones. It was Bush that signed the Patriot Act into law. It was Bush that took us to war under false pretenses.

Both parties have equal blame for the unconstitutional laws and killings.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:43 AM #50
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Please point to an instance or law that says the intent of law enforcement personnel should be to kill vice apprehend and deliver to the courts. Please.
No.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:57 AM #51
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Bush has been gone for YEARS, seriously, the blame Bush card is so old that it clearly isn't valid anymore.

Obama and the liberals had TOTAL control of the house, senate AND white house for years, they could have rolled back anything they felt like rolling back!

Your precious liberals LIKE having power to kill American citizens and spy on them, and murder them in cold blood without trial. Otherwise they would have changed course, but they went all in!

I don't recall Bush killing American citizens with drones... But, Obama has quite a few under his belt now. And this decision this week that he can now do it on American soil SHOULD make the country wake up.

I'm hopeful that Rand Pauls actions yesterday will do just that...
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:03 AM #52
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You know, I seem to remember liberals going nuts over the bush presidency. The pendulum swings both ways my friend. It is to be expected, this day and age, that much cold prickly feelings will be thrown at rivals in power.
I'm not in favor of the use of domestic drone strikes on US citizens. I was only presenting a plausible scenario where it might not be an inherently evil option to consider, when taking out a terroristic threat. And I don't approve of the way Obama and the White House have responded so far. I also deleted that comment right away, as I don't feel informed on this enough to really comment.

Always nice to see a real filibuster. We should require it again, and not just let people get away with essentially threatening to filibuster. Hope Rand brings it back.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:19 AM #53
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I'm not in favor of the use of domestic drone strikes on US citizens. I was only presenting a plausible scenario where it might not be an inherently evil option to consider, when taking out a terroristic threat. And I don't approve of the way Obama and the White House have responded so far. I also deleted that comment right away, as I don't feel informed on this enough to really comment.

Always nice to see a real filibuster. We should require it again, and not just let people get away with essentially threatening to filibuster. Hope Rand brings it back.
I was referring to the deleted post about right wingers hating Obama and so on.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:23 AM #54
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I was referring to the deleted post about right wingers hating Obama and so on.
Oh, true, but these gun crazed survivalist communes probably pose a potentially bigger threat than their liberal drum circle counter parts..

Also the hatred many of the right hold for Obama is of a much much higher degree than that of liberals under the Bush presidency. Most liberals thought Bush was more stupid than cynical.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:36 AM #55
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Oh, true, but these gun crazed survivalist communes probably pose a potentially bigger threat than their liberal drum circle counter parts..

Also the hatred many of the right hold for Obama is of a much much higher degree than that of liberals under the Bush presidency. Most liberals thought Bush was more stupid than cynical.
Such a big threat that I've never heard of them?

I remember plenty of irrational bull**** fear. Plenty of comparisons to nazis. You name it. The one thing Ive come to understand over the years is that the American left and the American Right have these caricatures built up for each other which they pull out on command.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:37 AM #56
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Clearly you don't remember the Bush years then...

Liberals went CRAZY back then...

Today, the country is in shambles because of the liberal rule, and yet, people just go to work and ignore the left. We all see the destruction they are causing, and yet what is the point of bringing it up every few minutes?

They have control, and they are ruining the country, and destroying the economy, but as long as the fed is printing money and buying stock with it to keep the market artificially high, everyone is OK with the country being ruined...

At some point liberals will have to look at their track record. Or not...
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:08 PM #57
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Bush has been gone for YEARS, seriously, the blame Bush card is so old that it clearly isn't valid anymore.

Obama and the liberals had TOTAL control of the house, senate AND white house for years, they could have rolled back anything they felt like rolling back!

Your precious liberals LIKE having power to kill American citizens and spy on them, and murder them in cold blood without trial. Otherwise they would have changed course, but they went all in!

I don't recall Bush killing American citizens with drones... But, Obama has quite a few under his belt now. And this decision this week that he can now do it on American soil SHOULD make the country wake up.

I'm hopeful that Rand Pauls actions yesterday will do just that...
Nobody is playing the Bush card the way you want it to be played. What was said was simply that your definition for today's liberals is no different from the Republicans. This isn't a left or right-leaning problem; it's an ideological problem that manifests within both sides of the political spectrum that is run by people who want nothing more than their own greed and power to grow.

Liberal, conservative, it doesn't matter... the problem is there between the both of them.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:10 PM #58
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America under these liberals? Are you forgetting the republicans that provided the other 50% of this mess? It was that dicktater Bush's that started killing folks with drones. It was Bush that signed the Patriot Act into law. It was Bush that took us to war under false pretenses.

Both parties have equal blame for the unconstitutional laws and killings.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00313

You seem to miss the part when the patriot act passed 98-1. That means...EVERYONE voted for it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:24 PM #59
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No.
Thank you.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:46 PM #60
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Oh, true, but these gun crazed survivalist communes probably pose a potentially bigger threat than their liberal drum circle counter parts..
The only people they pose a threat to is authoritarian tyrants, and I don't see how that's a bad thing.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:01 PM #61
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Hey easy now blake. Tyrants give bad names to everyone. Even authoritarians.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:13 PM #62
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Except they have skirted answering about targeted killings, and guys like Paul simply want the administration to answer some questions. Are you even watching or did you just read a few articles and assume you know what they are discussing?
Oh, so you watched a video and now you're an expert, perfect. This is grandstanding at its worst. The entire purpose of not saying "No" to targeted killings is to allow immediate response to a critical citation. Say a guy is driving a box truck of explosives to a civilian center and the only way to stop it is to destroy the truck and its contents. NOPE, he needs a trial first or Obama is a tyrannical scumbag that ignores due process. I don't see any difference between this and a bunch of neck beards crying that Obama won't agree to not commit genocide. It's a pointless gesture by idiots that can't read past the first line. NDAA 2.0

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If you Honestly think Rand Pauls problem is with using a drone to stop 9/11 2.0 then you are living with your head in the sand.
I know stopping terrorist attacks isn't on Rand Paul's mind because he's a moron.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:19 PM #63
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So what you are saying is if the government deems a person or group of being a "terrorist" it is OK to kill them without a trial?...




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I know stopping terrorist attacks isn't on Rand Paul's mind because he's a moron.
and as usual, liberal goes back to namecalling...

So tired. No wonder this forum is so stale. Learn a new debate tactic, your current one is lousy.
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