Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-06-2013, 09:27 PM #22
Drex17
Valar Morghulis
 
Drex17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ilium, NY
 has been a member for 10 years
Drex17 is one of the top 25 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
And I gave a perfectly good reason why it isn't inherently evil which you purposefully neglected to quote. Blowing up the flights on 9/11 would have been an act of good not evil. A thousand lives saved would have been amazing. herp de derp de diddly derp
Shooting down an imminent threat is different from using drones to assassinate people.
__________________
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
Drex17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-06-2013, 09:28 PM #23
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
Shooting down an imminent threat is different from using drones to assassinate people.
Every situation is different.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:29 PM #24
tsbalr120
Goooonsberry
 
tsbalr120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cowbutt, AR
tsbalr120 is an NCPA player
tsbalr120 is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Well, if one of these gun crazed survivalist communes became large enough and began engaging in terroristic activities "against the man," I could see reasonable need for a drone strike. Might be a better option than endangering our swat teams and national guardsmen by putting them in a shootout against a heavily armed, organized, and trained group of citizens. And seeing as we already have a thread in this very subforum putting Obama on the same, or worse, level as Hitler, I'd say a threat of this kind is not outside the realm of possibility. A whole lot of people sure do seem to hate this man..

I won't say I'm in favor of drone striking anyone, anywhere, any time. But I also don't agree that Obama is an evil villain for refusing to say he'd never order a strike on US citizens. I see this as just a lot of fear mongering from the right, more than anything. But definitely something we can keep an eye on, as Obama continues his presidency.
__________________
|NCPA: Razorbacks|
rip120
tsbalr120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:32 PM #25
spracks21
Zap Rowsdower
 
spracks21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lincoln, NE
spracks21 plays in the PSP
spracks21 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
spracks21 supports Team VICIOUS
spracks21 plays in the APPA D3 division
Already deleted that post, just because I haven't researched this issue enough to comment really.

But what you quoted was just an example where a drone strike might be a reasonable, and not an inherently evil, solution to a conflict, leaving constitutionality out if it.
__________________
Aimless Factory
#21

Last edited by spracks21 : 03-06-2013 at 09:35 PM.
spracks21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:40 PM #26
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher_Dorner View Post
The most ironic thing about your stance on this issue is the OB post in your sig.

"Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime."

Clearly you quoted his post to make him look like a fool. You succeeded, but now here you are. Well done.
blowing up passenger jet to stop terrorists = put innocents in prison because I masturbate to justice

gotcha
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:42 PM #27
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Already deleted that post, just because I haven't researched this issue enough to comment really.

But what you quoted was just an example where a drone strike might be a reasonable, and not an inherently evil, solution to a conflict, leaving constitutionality out if it.
Please point to an instance or law that says the intent of law enforcement personnel should be to kill vice apprehend and deliver to the courts. Please.
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:47 PM #28
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher_Dorner View Post
Why the **** would you use a slower and less capable drone than one of the many fast mover fighter jets in our arsenal anyway?
There are infinite possibilities. Maybe jets couldn't scramble and NYPD had a drone orbiting their city. That's a perfectly logical scenario considering they now have anti-air capabilities.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:29 PM #29
Drex17
Valar Morghulis
 
Drex17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ilium, NY
 has been a member for 10 years
Drex17 is one of the top 25 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
Every situation is different.
Wow, what a deep insight.

The whole issue is over if the white house does or does not believe that they have the power to target individuals who are US citizens on US soil. They want clarifications.


Equating that to stopping a terrorist attack in progress is asinine and dishonest.
__________________
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
Drex17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:32 PM #30
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Most large police agencies have fleet of aircraft. I don't think the cost to put a handful around the nation's largest targets will be crippling factor. Anyway, the cost of these aircraft vary tremendously so it's pointless to discuss this aspect. A few cities already have drones for surveillance.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:38 PM #31
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
Wow, what a deep insight.

The whole issue is over if the white house does or does not believe that they have the power to target individuals who are US citizens on US soil. They want clarifications.


Equating that to stopping a terrorist attack in progress is asinine and dishonest.
huh

Targeting civilian terrorists is kind of the point to this policy.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:49 PM #32
Drex17
Valar Morghulis
 
Drex17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ilium, NY
 has been a member for 10 years
Drex17 is one of the top 25 posters on PbNation
Lets say bob is a terrorist, piles of evidence point at that being the case, and is suspected to have killed dozens of people in bombings, and has been declared a terrorist by the united states.

however he was born here and is a citizen, and the authorities have had a hard time tracking him down.

If a drone finds him sitting on the front porch of his cabin in bumble**** montana, does the president think he has the authority to order a drone strike on that man sitting there?

THAT is what the concern is over, not fending off a attack currently in progress.
__________________
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
Drex17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:56 PM #33
F1VENOM
 
 
F1VENOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Would it have been acceptable to shoot down the 9/11 attackers? How about those that hijacked Flight 79?
__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"
F1VENOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:56 PM #34
$h@key J0nEZ
Southern By The
 
$h@key J0nEZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Grace Of GOD
We don't need no stinking due process.
__________________

The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan

"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one." - Alexander Hamilton
$h@key J0nEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:58 PM #35
Drex17
Valar Morghulis
 
Drex17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ilium, NY
 has been a member for 10 years
Drex17 is one of the top 25 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
Would it have been acceptable to shoot down the 9/11 attackers? How about those that hijacked Flight 79?
Yes, because neither of those are targeted killings, it's fending off an attack that is currently in progress.
__________________
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
Drex17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:59 PM #36
Blake360
 
 
Blake360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Socal
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
Yeah, no racist newsletter yet.

Personally, I say bring on the drones.
I say bring them to your backdoor.
Blake360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:59 PM #37
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
Lets say bob is a terrorist, piles of evidence point at that being the case, and is suspected to have killed dozens of people in bombings, and has been declared a terrorist by the united states.

however he was born here and is a citizen, and the authorities have had a hard time tracking him down.

If a drone finds him sitting on the front porch of his cabin in bumble**** montana, does the president think he has the authority to order a drone strike on that man sitting there?

THAT is what the concern is over, not fending off a attack currently in progress.
Do you honestly think that situation is what this discussion is for? They specifically cited situations like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. Not lobbing hellfires into residential areas because some guy may have blown up a building.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:59 PM #38
F1VENOM
 
 
F1VENOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
Yes, because neither of those are targeted killings, it's fending off an attack that is currently in progress.
How do you know it's an attack? They didn't know when it happened.
__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"
F1VENOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 11:02 PM #39
Blake360
 
 
Blake360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Socal
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
There are infinite possibilities.
Maybe one of those possibilities could include a drone "accidentally" targeting your house while you sleep.
Blake360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 11:02 PM #40
Drex17
Valar Morghulis
 
Drex17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ilium, NY
 has been a member for 10 years
Drex17 is one of the top 25 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
Do you honestly think that situation is what this discussion is for? They specifically cited situations like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. Not lobbing hellfires into residential areas because some guy may have blown up a building.
Except they have skirted answering about targeted killings, and guys like Paul simply want the administration to answer some questions. Are you even watching or did you just read a few articles and assume you know what they are discussing?

Rand Paul has discussed the 9/11 and Pearl harbor "answer"

"None of us disagree with lethal force to repel an ongoing lethal attack"

"there is no due process in a battlefield"

If you Honestly think Rand Pauls problem is with using a drone to stop 9/11 2.0 then you are living with your head in the sand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
How do you know it's an attack? They didn't know when it happened.
Well if you don't know an attack is going on then you won't be intervening with manned or unmanned aircraft, I'm not sure what you are driving at?
__________________
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."

Last edited by Drex17 : 03-06-2013 at 11:09 PM.
Drex17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 11:03 PM #41
F1VENOM
 
 
F1VENOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake360 View Post
Maybe one of those possibilities could include a drone "accidentally" targeting your house while you sleep.
You mean like when the police bust down the door and shoot the occupants and end up having the wrong house?
__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"
F1VENOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 11:51 PM #42
Blake360
 
 
Blake360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Socal
Isn't it funny how the obama administration is doing everything democrats accused bush of doing, but now that it's obama they're trying to justify it?
Blake360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump