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Old 03-01-2013, 06:14 PM #1
dannyd123
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Full Auto MECHANICAL Select fire marker teaser

Yup, read the title right,

This is a Select fire, full auto MECHANICAL marker. Proof of concept below.

Used a vibe breech with dual tail oring bolt.
When I am finished with this project it will be semi and full auto select fire with a flip of the switch shown in the vid. Im just missing the SMAV to fire the marker.

Im going to make a FS hole in the breach bottom and feed DAM mags with it. All in a PPSH-41 body. Already have the drum mag ready too.

Dont expect me to finish before May. Im a working man. Enjoy.


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Old 03-01-2013, 06:46 PM #2
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Awesome!

Haven't seen a pilot valve activated clippard valve in years. Not since a user named Hellbore used one to win a mech full auto contest I ran back in 2003.

Much more elegant when used to cycle an Ion design compared to the ram sear tripper design he used.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:28 PM #3
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Awesome!

Haven't seen a pilot valve activated clippard valve in years. Not since a user named Hellbore used one to win a mech full auto contest I ran back in 2003.

Much more elegant when used to cycle an Ion design compared to the ram sear tripper design he used.
I came accross his design as well. My original plan had the use of 2x 3way valves (1 piloted), but the FV-5 he used was a more efficient design. He had the flow control mounted on the exhaust. I tried to run it that way to increase dwell on the recharge, but it wouldnt work. It would "cycle out" and reach an equilibrium no matter what I had the flow set at.

The control valve on the top works flawlessly.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:10 PM #4
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Impressive,my kind of build and my favorite military weapon since Syphon Filter PS game,like that you used a "blind" vibe breech,no extra hole to clean out and FS&magfed too,I guess if youre gonna go big go all the way.Subcribed
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:07 AM #5
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Definitely looks like an interesting and promising little project
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:06 PM #6
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Easy enough to adjust the fire rate, but what about adjusting the dwell?
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:44 AM #7
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I came up with something similar for an Ion-based build. I've yet to finish it, but I have finally picked it up again. My phone won't allow me to play the video, so could you explain how it works? I'm curious as to how it differs from mine.

Edit: So, having watched the video, it seems to work great. Does that flow control affect your ROF in semi as well as full auto? Also, how do you plan to do your selector? Particularly to avoid having the "fire-on-release" issue when swapping modes? It definitely seems simpler than my double-4-way valve setup.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:45 PM #8
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curious to see where this goes..
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:15 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasethebarber View Post
I came up with something similar for an Ion-based build. I've yet to finish it, but I have finally picked it up again. My phone won't allow me to play the video, so could you explain how it works? I'm curious as to how it differs from mine.

Edit: So, having watched the video, it seems to work great. Does that flow control affect your ROF in semi as well as full auto? Also, how do you plan to do your selector? Particularly to avoid having the "fire-on-release" issue when swapping modes? It definitely seems simpler than my double-4-way valve setup.
No, the semi/full auto switch bypasses the flow control. Dont use the video as the final setup. It will be modified a bit. I will see if I can post a diagram soon of how I will hook everything up.

There will be no fire on release either. The way I have it set up, it will leave the bolt in the open position and switching between modes will not affect anything.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:05 PM #10
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Here it is.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:03 AM #11
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Very cool. What are the dimensions of the fv-4? Also, one could still use an autococker 3-way as the trigger valve, correct?
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:14 AM #12
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I'm still a little confused how you can control dwell, especially in full auto.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:06 AM #13
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I'm still a little confused how you can control dwell, especially in full auto.
Thats what the flow control is for. It will control the recharge rate to bring the bolt back.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:08 AM #14
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Very cool. What are the dimensions of the fv-4? Also, one could still use an autococker 3-way as the trigger valve, correct?
One can find all the dimensions on Clippard's web site in the catalog.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:28 AM #15
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Thats what the flow control is for. It will control the recharge rate to bring the bolt back.
That's just the cycling speed. So is the dwell dependent on the cycling speed here?
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:38 AM #16
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That's just the cycling speed. So is the dwell dependent on the cycling speed here?
Right. Dwell is the time from when the bolt starts moving forward to reaching firing position plus time for venting. So in semi you maybe able to short stroke it so that it doesn't cycle all the way. The flow control sets the venting/firing and recharge stroke. So in F/A you could set the flow rate/cycle speed too high resulting in a short stroke situation or a blender.

That's how I understand it to go.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:07 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogie D.Durgin View Post
Right. Dwell is the time from when the bolt starts moving forward to reaching firing position plus time for venting. So in semi you maybe able to short stroke it so that it doesn't cycle all the way. The flow control sets the venting/firing and recharge stroke. So in F/A you could set the flow rate/cycle speed too high resulting in a short stroke situation or a blender.

That's how I understand it to go.
Dwell is typically the period of time the solenoid valve is in one position. So if you have a 5 way solenoid operating a ram, it's time time between the solenoid valve allowing air out one hole (ie. the bolt/ram moving forward) and ends when that port is closed off, does not necessarily (in fact I don't think it does) include any venting time.
So right, in semi you can short stroke it, just like you could an autococker. But in F/A with this gun, I guess there really is no dwell setting, just a ROF that has to be tuned so that the dwell is adequate.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:48 AM #18
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You guys are confusing mechanical dwell and solenoid dwell. Boogie is correct in his understanding of mechanical dwell.

Spinny is thinking of solenoid dwell(not entirely sure if that's the correct term...perhaps pilot dwell?), which is obviously different. I don't know if there is any way to adjust it on a mech design aside from changing the length of time the trigger is held, though in this case it would only apply to semi auto.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:54 AM #19
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There is only one kind of dwell, dwell is dwell. Dwell is the pause in the motion of a machine, whether it is a solenoid (valve) or mechanical machine. That pause can be an opposite motion, or the initial motion.

I can't think of any way off the top of my head, but there probably is a way to control dwell on a fully automatic mechanical gun.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:38 PM #20
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I meant to say that he was looking at the mechanism as a whole, while you were focusing on one specific part of it. I guess I didn't articulate that very well. This, my friends, is why you shouldn't participate in forum discussion at work... At least not on a phone.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:16 PM #21
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The flow control directly controls the dwell of the valve. I have the flow control set up such that dwell actuation=dwell recharge. I can change this by:
1. Relocating flow control to exhaust only (to specifically control the actuation dwell (your most common dwell value on every marker)
2. Using a different flow control valve, which differentiates flow (direction dependent)

I figured equal dwells for both recharge and firing would be adequate hence the placement and valve selection.

In the old ion stock boards, you could modify these two values. Here are some sample settings:
http://www.specialopspaintball.com/f...howtopic=48530

With the QEV, it might be using a little more air than it should, but it will reduce shoot down at higher ROF. I can modify dwell further by adding another flow control on the exhaust to fine tune it, but Its close enough. I figure at 20bps, there is 14 ms actuation times(7ms pre and post), 18ms recharge, and 18ms dwell. Sounds like full shots are fired, I will need to chrono of course but im confident it will work.

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