Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-01-2013, 01:47 AM #1
bth9461
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Just how good was the electro Autocockers vs new era High End Electro Guns?

I think a few of you have played long enough to have used both types of these guns. With most of the rules for Rec/Tourney play capping BPS.

Just wondering if the E-A/C's could keep up. Would they need a new Board? Is there a good updated Board availble.

I really got out of the Game before the E-A/C's, but I remember the Mech A/C's as being great guns. The best of their era. Maybe the most dominate gun ever. Cosidering the way the Autococker developed. Mech production gun/ Mech custom private label/ then to the Electro Conversion. I would say the most unique gun platform in the games history. IMO

With all the talk concerning older High End electro's really holding their own against the new ones. Could the E-A/C's still hang with the Big Dogs today?

Cockers are some of the best looking guns ever made. Some of the pics in BST of these E-A/C's are just awesome looking. IMO

PS. I am old, so cut me some slack.
__________________
Bugman
bth9461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-01-2013, 06:26 AM #2
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Can they hold their own? Yes. The problem is more related to whether or not they support the latest bps caps and tournament rules. As much as I loved cockers, new guns are lighter, faster, more efficient and much more reliable. You can take a cocker anywhere, but at ~$600 for a nice ecocker you're in used G6R and Clone VX territory and the cocker doesn't really do anything better than those. It's really a decision based on how much the sentiment is worth to you.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 06:44 AM #3
Shawn_Savage
RUSHian Mob
 
Shawn_Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston, Tx
Annual Supporting Member
Shawn_Savage plays in the PSP
Shawn_Savage plays in the APPA D4 division
Shawn_Savage is Legendary
They can hold up without any issue at all. I personally like the feel of how they shoot more than most markers.

The only thing is you need to know how to maintain it. Same as a Luxe or Clone or anything else. Timing is important on an autococker. Once you learn it, it's not so bad.
__________________

Picked best team 2011 by NTex PBreview
Picked best reps of Texas 2012 by NTex PBreview
Shawn_Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 09:59 AM #4
bth9461
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Can they hold their own? Yes. The problem is more related to whether or not they support the latest bps caps and tournament rules. As much as I loved cockers, new guns are lighter, faster, more efficient and much more reliable. You can take a cocker anywhere, but at ~$600 for a nice ecocker you're in used G6R and Clone VX territory and the cocker doesn't really do anything better than those. It's really a decision based on how much the sentiment is worth to you.
Would the Tadao Yakuza brd for the A/C make it current for tourney play? Is that brd a good product (180 bucks)? Are there any other mfg's making new brds for the A/C?

Hey I like the both the G6R and the Clone, but even with the extra weight a sharp looking E-A/C has a cool factor that does appeal to me (more so than any new gun). Remember I am pretty old. For me I just don't see spending 12-1600 on a new High End. I could see my self spending $1000 with upgrades on a E-A/C though. Or buying a used High End.

What about selinoids? and other parts can these be found? To keep a gun working rather than a just hanging it on a wall.
__________________
Bugman
bth9461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:23 AM #5
bth9461
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn_Savage View Post
They can hold up without any issue at all. I personally like the feel of how they shoot more than most markers.

The only thing is you need to know how to maintain it. Same as a Luxe or Clone or anything else. Timing is important on an autococker. Once you learn it, it's not so bad.
I used a friends Mech A/C many years ago, it was a custom gun. It was a sweet shooting gun. The only thing I did'not like was his HPA tank.

Ever heard of a Raptor by Air America (3000psi) 114 cu in tank? It was a lead balloon. I was getting middle aged even back then. Felt like I lost about 50 lbs when I switched back to a 7oz alum vert tank on a Mini-mag.

Never owned one just used his a few times, I have some buddies that know them real well. So I think I would be able to learn the ropes and keep it tuned. Sort of a challenge, I guess that is part of the appeal also.

Hey maybe these new guns shoot so well that the A/C is no big deal now, but back in the "day". They were a BIG DEAL. I thought his Cocker shot much better than the Mini-Mag, even though I really liked the way the mag shot. Huge difference from my 68 Special.
__________________
Bugman
bth9461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:46 AM #6
tlmiller
 
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
tlmiller is for the Gunfight
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Can they hold their own? Yes. The problem is more related to whether or not they support the latest bps caps and tournament rules. As much as I loved cockers, new guns are lighter, faster, more efficient and much more reliable. You can take a cocker anywhere, but at ~$600 for a nice ecocker you're in used G6R and Clone VX territory and the cocker doesn't really do anything better than those. It's really a decision based on how much the sentiment is worth to you.
Other than a VERY few, newer markers aren't more efficient than a properly set up cocker. Take a stock cocker, eblade + spring kit, and have it set up by someone who knows what they're doing, and it'll get over a case off a 68/4500. Won't reach G6R level efficiency, but will match or beat anything other that currently for sale.

I agree with the rest of your statement.
__________________
Pics and specs of my markers...tired of updating

Copy and paste this into your signature if you use Linux.
tlmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:06 PM #7
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
Other than a VERY few, newer markers aren't more efficient than a properly set up cocker. Take a stock cocker, eblade + spring kit, and have it set up by someone who knows what they're doing, and it'll get over a case off a 68/4500. Won't reach G6R level efficiency, but will match or beat anything other that currently for sale.

I agree with the rest of your statement.
The likelihood of a cocker owner seeing a case or better on a tank is pretty unlikely. It heavily depends on valve/ main spring balance and the valve itself. You may see that with an AKA or mq valve, but without a great deal of work it's not even close. Set up with a LP poppet and a soft valve with a medium main spring you'll get a very soft shot but very inefficient. I think most modern spools are easier to maintain, easier to tune and don't have the drastic compromises of setting the gun up a certain way.


OP, solenoids for the front block are fairly easy to find and I'd assume the clapper noid in the grip is easy to find as well. The tadao board is a pretty solid option. Really this is only something that will be needed if you're ramping or playing with bps caps. I wouldn't ever try to discourage someone from buying a cocker because I LOVED mine, but IMO guns like axes, protons, vices/ G6Rs and DMs are all great options. If you have a $1000 I'd pick up a gun like a used DM9 and a killer mech cocker. That way you have nostalgia and performance.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:42 PM #8
tlmiller
 
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
tlmiller is for the Gunfight
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
The likelihood of a cocker owner seeing a case or better on a tank is pretty unlikely. It heavily depends on valve/ main spring balance and the valve itself. You may see that with an AKA or mq valve, but without a great deal of work it's not even close. Set up with a LP poppet and a soft valve with a medium main spring you'll get a very soft shot but very inefficient. I think most modern spools are easier to maintain, easier to tune and don't have the drastic compromises of setting the gun up a certain way.


OP, solenoids for the front block are fairly easy to find and I'd assume the clapper noid in the grip is easy to find as well. The tadao board is a pretty solid option. Really this is only something that will be needed if you're ramping or playing with bps caps. I wouldn't ever try to discourage someone from buying a cocker because I LOVED mine, but IMO guns like axes, protons, vices/ G6Rs and DMs are all great options. If you have a $1000 I'd pick up a gun like a used DM9 and a killer mech cocker. That way you have nostalgia and performance.
Every mechanical valved cocker (not counting the dragun "cockers") I've ever owned got a case+ off a 68/45 with just spring kit and timing.

I actually get worse efficiency from MQ than I do a mechanical valve.

Not arguing with modern markers being easier to set up, easier to keep running, or easier to live with. Just stating that anyone who truly knew cockers, and bought a decent spring kit could set up a cocker to get over a case. Might not be many nowadays, but when they were still actively being made, it wasn't hard at all to do.
__________________
Pics and specs of my markers...tired of updating

Copy and paste this into your signature if you use Linux.
tlmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 05:38 PM #9
dr.paintball
JON RAMOS. ILLINOIS
 
dr.paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Illinois
.
__________________
JON RAMOS #37
dr.paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 06:35 PM #10
2pipes
Legend in my own MIND
 
2pipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Houston, TX
2pipes owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
2pipes supports Team VICIOUS
2pipes has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
2pipes supports DLX Technology
Pretty good considering Empire is releasing the Resurrection (autococker).
__________________
CUSTOM CARBON FIBER HOPPERS and GUNS SPIRES click below
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4040966
Luxe MOB

Ronnie Dixon fan club #30
2pipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 08:01 PM #11
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
Every mechanical valved cocker (not counting the dragun "cockers") I've ever owned got a case+ off a 68/45 with just spring kit and timing.

I actually get worse efficiency from MQ than I do a mechanical valve.
I read, but I'm skeptical. The autococker front block itself is terribly wasteful as none of the air volume used for for cycling the gun is used to accelerate the ball. So, I am curious... When you cock the gun degassed an pull the trigger does the cocking rod/ hammer snap forward or does it bounce a bit? I can say I owned 3 of the most prestigious custom cockers (evo, sonic and an STO) and none of them got a full case off a 68/45 nor did I (or do I now) care. It's the experience of owning them that is fun.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:31 PM #12
tlmiller
 
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
tlmiller is for the Gunfight
I don't have any mech cockers anymore. Once it got hard to find good slide frames I abandoned owning cockers (HATE HATE HATE HATE hinge frames). Haven't owned one in 8 or 9 years now. But they bounced.
__________________
Pics and specs of my markers...tired of updating

Copy and paste this into your signature if you use Linux.
tlmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 12:03 AM #13
SKI008
Fear my Join Date
 
SKI008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bth9461 View Post
Would the Tadao Yakuza brd for the A/C make it current for tourney play? Is that brd a good product (180 bucks)? Are there any other mfg's making new brds for the A/C?
Tadao's been having some rough times as of late. The dude who founded Tadao got employed by Canon and the paintball business has sort of fallen by the wayside. The boards are still great (and for cockers it's your only option unless you want to run a T-board or something which isn't exactly drop in) but the customer support has supposedly gone down hill.

That and they were having trouble with their OLED screens burning out and being unable to replace them because the source for them had dried up. Sort of a "buyer beware" thing.

I started playing in the heyday of the E cocker and I love the sound and feel of them. It'll keep up fine but newer options are going to be lighter and tighter.

But they won't make that great cocker sound or have backblocks.
__________________
This line is in remembrance of Jared Wilson, friend and paintball teammate who died on 7/27/2005.
My Old Feedback +1/-0 |
SKI008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:46 AM #14
bth9461
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKI008 View Post
Tadao's been having some rough times as of late. The dude who founded Tadao got employed by Canon and the paintball business has sort of fallen by the wayside. The boards are still great (and for cockers it's your only option unless you want to run a T-board or something which isn't exactly drop in) but the customer support has supposedly gone down hill.

That and they were having trouble with their OLED screens burning out and being unable to replace them because the source for them had dried up. Sort of a "buyer beware" thing.

I started playing in the heyday of the E cocker and I love the sound and feel of them. It'll keep up fine but newer options are going to be lighter and tighter.

But they won't make that great cocker sound or have backblocks.
Little troubling to here that Tadao is having issues. A friend needs to replace a brd so I will pass along the concerns. I am still intrigued by the A/C might need to consider the Mech side also.
__________________
Bugman
bth9461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:13 AM #15
bth9461
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post


OP, solenoids for the front block are fairly easy to find and I'd assume the clapper noid in the grip is easy to find as well. The tadao board is a pretty solid option. Really this is only something that will be needed if you're ramping or playing with bps caps. I wouldn't ever try to discourage someone from buying a cocker because I LOVED mine, but IMO guns like axes, protons, vices/ G6Rs and DMs are all great options. If you have a $1000 I'd pick up a gun like a used DM9 and a killer mech cocker. That way you have nostalgia and performance.
Right now I have a used Mini to play with. The thing that got me interested in the A/C was the closed bolt. Also the looks. I guess I could go with a Mech A/C those are pretty cheap. I was really thinking about near the end of the year. If I made it through and played as much as I am hoping to. I was considering dropping some more money into the game. I saw some real cool looking Cockers fore sale recently, so it got me thinking "Retro". And what it would take for me to part with some serious money on a gun. Never spent more than $300 before. Not really excited about many of the High Ends. I will need to really watch whats on fields though this year. Maybe I will see something that make me say WOW. Looks like there is going to be a lot of NEW STUFF out there this year.

Concerning the E-A/C, the older brds don't allow you to cap the BPS? So for semi auto rec play with a field cap of 10/12.5 BPS would be an issue without the Tadao Brd?
__________________
Bugman
bth9461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:20 AM #16
tlmiller
 
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
tlmiller is for the Gunfight
With the Tadao, shouldn't be. I believe they were able to be programmed to be fully compliant.
__________________
Pics and specs of my markers...tired of updating

Copy and paste this into your signature if you use Linux.
tlmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:31 PM #17
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Old board have a cap, but at the time they were made ramping was typically at a 15 or 13.3bps cap so they don't go low enough. 12.5 is the new capping standard, but some fields go down to ~10bps now and I have even seen semi capped at that.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:28 PM #18
bth9461
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
So I guess a Tadao brd is needed to make these things useable, to stay under the cap. I am thinking most field for even rec play will be at 10 or 12.5 BPS. Seems to me what I have heard anyway.

Any thoughts on the Autococker SR? I just fond some stuff on these as I have been researching E-A/C's . Never even new they made something like those. They must have been at the end of WGP production days.
__________________
Bugman
bth9461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:52 PM #19
blueshifty
RIP: Underĝath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
IMO you want a karni or en e2'd cocker. With cockers, find a body you like and look for quality components. The best components IMO:

Rams:
Belsales .44/ PE Nexus (rebranded)
Freeflow

LPR:
MacDev Sonic
Palmers Micro Rock
Evolution

Valve:
MacDev Red Valve
AKA
~Madman rocket (I had hit or miss success with these in the past)

Lower tube:
Hammer doesn't matter, but I liked the way the belsales velocity is adjusted. Also, there are round and flat sears and that makes a difference on eblades and how easily it is timed.

Bolt:
I stuck with shocktech on most of my custom built guns

If you decide to go mech then look for a Belsales bullet 3-way and either an ans quickframe (my favorite) or a bechmark and put a roller sear in either. Cockers can shoot beautifully but you kind of have to dive in and learn them which is why I suggest starting with a mech as a backup. Building your own from scratch is the most fun. I've built more than I can remember and each one was a little different.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 02:45 AM #20
someasianballer
The panda with a gun
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Richmond,Tx
someasianballer plays in the PSP
someasianballer plays in the APPA D4 division
If u do go e cocker I would say get a eblade with zero b or e2. Since tadao is having troubles

The ample settings on an e2 can cap ur e cocker down to any tournament cap

I have done it. But it takes time and a accurate bps chrono.

My eblade set up right now is capped at around 11-12 bps. I could have fine tuned it to get exactly 12 but I'm lazy
someasianballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 10:25 PM #21
HolySokz
 
 
HolySokz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: cincinnati
 has been a member for 10 years
HolySokz is playing at Living Legends VI
HolySokz owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
HolySokz supports Empire
If you love to tinker and get a totally unique gun the autococker is great. I just switched because I'm OG. And just roll with the revy.
HolySokz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump