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Old 02-22-2013, 09:58 PM #1
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What is Milsim?

What is Milsim?
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:08 PM #2
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Military simulation
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:14 PM #3
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:21 PM #4
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Ohh!! So like the alpha black and salvo body kits?v
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:58 PM #5
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Pretty much, yeah. If it looks like a an actual weapon, it's a pretty safe assumption it's a milsim.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:32 AM #6
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and anyone who says milsig is just dumb
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:20 AM #7
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Basically, the way people play paintball who would like PB to be thought of as military play-acting instead of a legitimate sport.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:26 AM #8
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Basically, the way people play paintball who would like PB to be thought of as military play-acting instead of a legitimate sport.
well said.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:51 AM #9
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No MilSim is not a paintball gun that looks a bit like a gun, it is not wearing camouflage, it is not woodsball and it is not scenario

MilSim is military simulation. Usually using magazine fed markers/guns, with limited paint and a tactical military simulation storyline/scenario.

Woodsball is playing in the woods
Scenario is playing along with a scenario storyline
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:06 AM #10
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Originally Posted by tommikka View Post
No MilSim is not a paintball gun that looks a bit like a gun, it is not wearing camouflage, it is not woodsball and it is not scenario

MilSim is military simulation. Usually using magazine fed markers/guns, with limited paint and a tactical military simulation storyline/scenario.

Woodsball is playing in the woods
Scenario is playing along with a scenario storyline
Words are only as good as their common usage. Even though it might not mean "woodsball with a PB gun that looks like a real gun" for the vast majority of people, that is exactly what it means.

Language evolves over time, such as how Latin evolved into French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian.
Whatever it may have originally meant, it no longer means that.

Now a milsim gun is a paintball gun that looks similar to a real gun regardless of whether it uses a hopper and a tank or a magazine and a 12g.

and the more we move into "accurate replicas" the more likely we will run into this:


and paintball will be labeled as a terrorist or school shooters training practice as opposed to a competitive sport full of responsible, law abiding adults who play for the fun, not for the violence.

Last edited by UR A DEAD MAN APPLES : 02-23-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:52 PM #11
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It's been said already, but I'll add my two cents to it.
Milsim is the using of military-style tactics and paintball markers resembling real weapons (magazine fed mostly) to simulate a tactical scenario or to be used for training. Personally, I don't play milsim. I have milsim markers like shrouded A5s and pistols and things, but I don't use them for true milsim. The main premise of milsim is the marker. You can play milsim on a speedball field if you wanted to, you just use different tactics because you don't have the ability to empty a hopper or two at anything that moves. RAP4 is probably the most famous company for milsim, making their own markers as well as systems for essentially every other marker on the planet, from tactical rails to magazine feed systems to a wide variety of stocks for markers.
Milsim is the more airsoft-y side of paintball, having more military-wannabe followers. It isn't airsoft, however, and therefore much better
There's my two cents. Playing milsim does not in fact make you a more effective school shooter or a violent psychopath, it's just another facet of the sport of paintball.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:02 AM #12
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Originally Posted by UR A DEAD MAN APPLES View Post
Words are only as good as their common usage. Even though it might not mean "woodsball with a PB gun that looks like a real gun" for the vast majority of people, that is exactly what it means.

Language evolves over time, such as how Latin evolved into French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian.
Whatever it may have originally meant, it no longer means that.
Core language and common usage. Define 'bad'!
That is an important reason to dispell 'MilSim' meaning anything other than 'Military simulation'

Now a milsim gun is a paintball gun that looks similar to a real gun regardless of whether it uses a hopper and a tank or a magazine and a 12g.

and the more we move into "accurate replicas" the more likely we will run into this:
Some of the ATF reaction is valid. Legaly correct as the tips were not orange and therefore not legal for a toy in the US. Also a valid point that walking out of the house with those BB guns could lead you into trouble and potential death - the potential of death is dependant on how you encounter the police or how you are reported to them and how you are acting or react when armed police arrive
Stating they can be modified to full auto / real ammunition firing weapons needs evidence to support that. This argument has been used a number of times for different items accross the world




and paintball will be labeled as a terrorist or school shooters training practice as opposed to a competitive sport full of responsible, law abiding adults who play for the fun, not for the violence.
Alienating the recreational player will no help your argument here.
Competitive tournament / speedball is the only part of paintball that could be considered a true sport, but it is not the only method of 'law abiding adults playing for fun'
Is there no violence in competitive paintball then? What about other players and marshalls being attacked by upset players?
I am not in the US but see it a country of contradictions, particlarly where paintball is concerned.
Support the services, but be anti gun
Support access to guns, but be anti government
The (vocal) gun lobby appear pro gun in all of its guises
The (vocal) anti gun lobby appear to be against guns in all guises

Don't be blinkered and support only your flavour of paintball. If speedball style players distance themselves from woodsball too far it limits avenues the entry level of player, it limits the avenues for the older player, it affects paintball sites ability to get customers, and paintball dies
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:47 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidfiretibby View Post
and anyone who says milsig is just dumb
actually people that say milsig could be referring to an actual paintball marker brand
http://www.hustlepaintball.com/Milsi...intball-Marker
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:00 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommikka View Post
I am not in the US but see it a country of contradictions, particlarly where paintball is concerned.
Support the services, but be anti gun
Support access to guns, but be anti government
The (vocal) gun lobby appear pro gun in all of its guises
The (vocal) anti gun lobby appear to be against guns in all guises

Don't be blinkered and support only your flavour of paintball. If speedball style players distance themselves from woodsball too far it limits avenues the entry level of player, it limits the avenues for the older player, it affects paintball sites ability to get customers, and paintball dies
ah yes, a gun. See, a gun is designed to kill people, which is why it should be treated with respect. When you go running around with paintball guns that look like real guns, it looks like you aren't giving guns the proper respect and are instead carelessly discharging firearms, which, despite what hollywood says, doesn't happen often.

Paintball guns modeled after real guns aren't like that for any functional reasons, since your standard "tourney" paintball gun has far better balance and much lighter than any woodsball marker. Which is why the more successful woodsball players play in dark jerseys and pb pants, with nice cleats, and an orthodox paintball gun.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:26 AM #15
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Ohh!! So like the alpha black and salvo body kits?v
for the most part
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Originally Posted by Spinnaz View Post
Pretty much, yeah. If it looks like a an actual weapon, it's a pretty safe assumption it's a milsim.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommikka View Post
No MilSim is not a paintball gun that looks a bit like a gun, it is not wearing camouflage, it is not woodsball and it is not scenario

MilSim is military simulation. Usually using magazine fed markers/guns, with limited paint and a tactical military simulation storyline/scenario.

Woodsball is playing in the woods
Scenario is playing along with a scenario storyline
Well. If the marker looks like a real gun and loads with a magazine, isn't it a paintball gun with a magazine?

I constantly go out with one pod of paint, a full hopper and that's it. I suppose I play milsim at scenario events and when I play woodsball lol.

Yeah, and many people play scenarios because of the more "milsim" approach; at least that's what I've gathered from the West Point games and Invasion of Normandy in PA lol.
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ah yes, a gun. See, a gun is designed to kill people, which is why it should be treated with respect. When you go running around with paintball guns that look like real guns, it looks like you aren't giving guns the proper respect and are instead carelessly discharging firearms, which, despite what hollywood says, doesn't happen often.

Paintball guns modeled after real guns aren't like that for any functional reasons, since your standard "tourney" paintball gun has far better balance and much lighter than any woodsball marker. Which is why the more successful woodsball players play in dark jerseys and pb pants, with nice cleats, and an orthodox paintball gun.
Big dot here

A while ago, some idiot kid decided that he wanted to run to the local pro-shop to fill up his air tank. Instead of just carrying his tank, he decided to run down the street with an alpha black. To those not familiar with paintball, some 13 year old is running down the street with what looks to be an AR. The police sped to the sighting of the kid, surrounding him with their squad cars pointing REAL guns at him because he's stupid.

Use common sense. I guess the rest is self explanatory.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:35 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Paper_Cut View Post
ah yes, a gun. See, a gun is designed to kill people, which is why it should be treated with respect. When you go running around with paintball guns that look like real guns, it looks like you aren't giving guns the proper respect and are instead carelessly discharging firearms, which, despite what hollywood says, doesn't happen often.

Is a gun designed to kill people?
Is a paintball gun designed to kill people
How about a grease gun?
Or a spray gun?
However by definition none of the above are guns. A gun is an artillery piece.

How does running around with paintball guns mean they are not being given respect? They are not firearms, but still need respect. The paintball discharged can damage people. Respect it with trigger discipline, safe zone discipline, goggle & condom discipline

I understand why 'paintball marker' was popularised over 'paintball gun', but if you are not using oil based marking paint designed for forestry or cattle then you are not marking with a marker.
Whether you call it a gun or a marker then in many peoples eyes it is a gun. Keep saying marker and they may wonder what you are hiding


Paintball guns modeled after real guns aren't like that for any functional reasons, since your standard "tourney" paintball gun has far better balance and much lighter than any woodsball marker.
Light and balanced is not always the ergonomic way. Sometimes a tournament gun is too light, some people prefer the ergonomics of a stock - even though they cannot get their face in the right place with goggles. However they are similar to real life guns because that is what people buy, this does not mean they are conducting 'mil sim'. There has been much debate recently about target shooting / sports rifles with the Armalite look. This does not mean a target shooter is conducting 'mil sim'

A tournament style marker has been functionaly designed. However it is not balanced when you attach the air cylinder unless you match the cylinder to the gun and to you - and importantly position the cylinder for balance. There was a reason people were using drop forwards, these fell out of fashion.
Unless you use a drop forward or railed ASA you have to be extremely lucky to have a perfectly balanced marker. (Even better if you use a rail mount and a 'kick up' rail).
Which is why the more successful woodsball players play in dark jerseys and pb pants, with nice cleats, and an orthodox paintball gun.
I think that tells you more about the player then their style. There are also average and poor players in dark jerseys, pants (or trousers), cleats and a lightweight paintball gun
The clothing does not have to be dark, I can play in a light t-shirt and play my best or wear camouflage and play my worst.
If my clothes are cmfortable then I am comfortable
Cleats depend on the ground. They give grip, but may not be the best, I wear cleats sometimes, I wear boots with ankle support most often.
Lightness of my gear makes little difference - I'm not going to be running around when every second counts. I have young and agile teammates to do that. They will leave me far behind no matter what gear they are carrying.
For a marker I will use anything from my collection - X7 which could be standard or with folding stock, 3" barrel, AK bodykit, or I could use my pistols - splatmaster, PGP, Tiberius, TiPX, Etek, Ion, Tacamo AK47, PCS US5 Barret or standard, autococker, cocker pump, Spyder clone, PM5, I might have the cylinder fitted or by remote line, I may use my 68, 48, or 13ci cylinders
None of the above make me a milsim or speedball player. I am a woodsball and scenario player.
I have played military historic, current and future games, sci fi, cartoon and time travel scenarios. All of them just enjoying myself playing in the game zone and having a laugh in the safe zone/camp site/party
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:12 PM #17
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Originally Posted by tommikka View Post
None of the above make me a milsim or speedball player. I am a woodsball and scenario player.
I have played military historic, current and future games, sci fi, cartoon and time travel scenarios. All of them just enjoying myself playing in the game zone and having a laugh in the safe zone/camp site/party
I am not going to get into an argument about guns because its academic, we aren't talking real guns.



Now: What I do want to talk about is balance.

When people think "balance" they think the middle with both sides being even, however, that isn't the case. In this case, balance meaning the center of mass, on a paintball gun, the center of mass should be just behind the trigger frame. That is why snatch grips work. With most of the weight on the back of the gun it moves what is supporting your gun from your hands back and onto your shoulder, lowering fatigue and allowing you to hold the gun for longer.

Drop forwards first came out to solve the issue of large tanks, when all there was was 3k tanks and fields filled tanks by the fill instead of all-day-air it wasn't uncommon to see 108 cubic inch tanks. Those are quite large, and in order to be able to hold the gun properly, you needed to move the tank up.
Unless you play snake and don't need to hold the gun up properly in order to hold the gun at the correct height for a prolonged time the tank should stick about 10in(25cm) out from the back of the bottom of the trigger frame.
This puts the back of the gun right against the nose, just far enough to allow clearance for the mask and to turn your head. Up against your nose because it allows you to shoot exactly where you're looking without having to take time to aim, you simply look and shoot.
With the gun's weight as far back as possible it allows you to hold the gun steady with most of the weight on your shoulder to allow you to put down as much or as little fire as you want in a tight grouping.

And I already know your next argument because I've seen it time and time again; "but person X plays with it a certain other way." There are two things wrong with this:
1. Anecdotal evidence does not change the rule, for 99.9% of serious paintballers*, this is their preferred gun setup.
2. That person most likely got used to doing it "the wrong way" and has adapted his play style to compensate and switching with his adapted play style feels unnatural.


*by serious, I mean people who play paintball it as their profession, their meal ticket is tied to their ability to win.

Last edited by Paper_Cut : 02-25-2013 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:33 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p8ntballr68059 View Post
actually people that say milsig could be referring to an actual paintball marker brand
http://www.hustlepaintball.com/Milsi...intball-Marker
never saw those. but most ppl i see that say milsig really mean milsim
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:30 PM #19
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never saw those. but most ppl i see that say milsig really mean milsim
look who's dumb now
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:23 AM #20
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I am not going to get into an argument about guns because its academic, we aren't talking real guns.

Though the discussion was that paintball guns that look like real guns make it MilSim, which you then directed to be the image of running around with guns

Now: What I do want to talk about is balance.
We both know what balance is in paintball. To get it exactly right for the perfect balance requires some adjustment to the individual.
This does not mean a long 'woodsball gun' that needs two hands is wrong. It can be ergonomicaly right and comfortable for the individual.
Not being in the optimum position for the needs of a fast paced speedball game does not make a woodsballer a milsim player.


And I already know your next argument because I've seen it time and time again; "but person X plays with it a certain other way."
Not my argument


*by serious, I mean people who play paintball it as their profession, their meal ticket is tied to their ability to win.
The serious paintballer, playing competitively (not just professionaly) needs to be making these adjustments to be more efficient and faster in their aiming, firing etc

All of the above does not affect the MilSim / woodsball argument

People want to play paintball their way and to enjoy themselves. Recreational paintball with any type of paintball gun of their choice does not mean they play MilSim
Playing Military Simulation makes it MilSim
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:20 AM #21
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MilSim is a type of play with the mags but its also a general term used to describe markers.

If you had to describe several markers the easiest way but be saying its the milsim (overpriced) version of x marker.
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