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Old 02-26-2013, 10:04 AM #43
barrel roll
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Not with this level of fuel consumption, not with a motor projected to last 300k easily, and certainly not on gasoline.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:14 AM #44
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Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
By, "can do much" I assume you mean, if adequately motivated, personally (Work hard, educate yourself, never give up). Which is what Seahawk had said. I'm asking what do we do once these things begin to be less and less effective at achieving success. And more to the real point, the more difficult it becomes to make a sufficient living, and the more rigged the game gets for those at the top, the weaker our economy will get. A smaller collection of people in the middle class to pay taxes, means less government spending and investment. And while hardcore conservatives may like the sound of this, most Americans enjoy things like roads, bridges, public service officials, a strong military, scientific research, medicare, and social security.

If the trend does continue accelerating at the present rate, what are some of these many ways that things can happen to avoid economic fallout? Because while a mad max style future (Hey, it could be fun for awhile) may not be likely, a plutocratic America is a very real possibility.
No, you asked if the common man is powerless and **** out of luck. Which is quite the contrary. Here is a glimpse of the past.

"Americans combine to give fêtes, found seminaries, build churches, distribute books, and send missionaries to the antipodes. Hospitals, prisons, and schools take shape in that way. Finally, if they want to proclaim a truth or propagate some feeling by the encouragement of a great example, they form an association. In every case, at the head of any new undertaking, where in France you would find the government or in England some territorial magnate, in the United States you are sure to find an association. I have come across several types of association in America of which, I confess, I had not previously the slightest conception, and I have often admired the extreme skill they show in proposing a common object for the exertions of very many and in inducing them voluntarily to pursue it.”

Did you know that for much of american history, most adult males were members of lodges? These lodges took part in political action. Caucuses used to be much more than posturing, however they were much less exciting, because they got things done.

I think you are a little confused in that plutocratic America already exists. Do you know how much Hilary pulls in per speech? 200,000. At least a billion dollars was spent on the last presidential election. We are a very affluent nation and this is a consequence. The days that I described above are no more.

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Old 02-26-2013, 10:16 AM #45
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Not with this level of fuel consumption, not with a motor projected to last 300k easily, and certainly not on gasoline.
40 MPG, longevity is determined by maintenance and my guess is you're a diesel is better than gas kind of person.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:34 AM #46
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My current average is about 50 MPG. Consistent 800 miles per fill, and I stuff about 16-17 gallons in the tank.

300k+ miles is no where near normal for a gasoline engine.

Diesel has it's advantages. My hotrod is gasoline
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:38 AM #47
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My current average is about 50 MPG. Consistent 800 miles per fill, and I stuff about 16-17 gallons in the tank.

300k+ miles is no where near normal for a gasoline engine.

Diesel has it's advantages. My hotrod is gasoline
300k isn't normal for a gasoline engine? Most truck people would disagree but what do I know, I only fixed them for a living.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:51 AM #48
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You must see some babied pickups, your average gasoline motor is only good for about 125k before it starts showing signs of needing an overhaul.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:52 AM #49
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You must see some babied pickups, your average gasoline motor is only good for about 125k before it starts showing signs of needing an overhaul.
If you're talking about overhauling, you're not maintaining it properly.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:55 AM #50
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:42 AM #51
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A relatively cheap, reliable, 10 year old car with 160k miles, that can get up to 57 miles per gallon, was purchased by me for roughly $9000. It runs on diesel, and if I feel like it I can use WVO and make everyone around me hungry for fried chicken or french fries.

I looked at a problem, and came up with a viable solution.

That is my dose of anecdotal evidence for the day, even if we are playing a game of "what if".
If you truly think the solution to macro-level income inequality is moving to the suburbs and buying a diesel car, then this conversation might as well stop here.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:46 AM #52
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My current average is about 50 MPG. Consistent 800 miles per fill, and I stuff about 16-17 gallons in the tank.

300k+ miles is no where near normal for a gasoline engine.

Diesel has it's advantages. My hotrod is gasoline
It's not the engine that kills your car, it's the damn check engine light. I swear they have coded the new cars to cost $1000 to shut that light off every inspection past 150k so that you need to get a new one.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:04 PM #53
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If you truly think the solution to macro-level income inequality is moving to the suburbs and buying a diesel car, then this conversation might as well stop here.
The solution to macro level is a **** ton of micro level solutions. That is why I posted about "I looked at a problem, and came up with a viable solution."

It isn't the system driving this perceived change, it is a ton of small changes driving the system.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:18 PM #54
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It isn't the system driving this perceived change, it is a ton of small changes driving the system.
I disagree. A competitively driven market combined with a system of unequal opportunity will always lead to inequality as long as there are not forces preventing it (taxes-sweeden or choice-japan). This is not a coincidence of small chances. This is a natural and systemic fact of competitive capitalism. The evidence of this is seen in the fact that the problems we are facing here are universal to all capitalistic markets (unless they are actively working against this force towards the top).

This fact is inevitably bad as increased inequality is unsustainable, so the system must be changed (non-competitive or preferably equal opportunity) or compensated for (taxes or choice) if we want to sustain.

--

To be clear, I am not declaring this as irrefutible fact. Didn't intend it to come off that way. I am open to a critique/response.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:25 PM #55
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I don't want to solve income inequality but the solution to turbulent times and totalitarian humanism for myself is purchasing arable, preferably rural land. Build a reasonable home on it which is very well insulated. Get water from a well, food from game and garden, power from solar, possibly wind, and amenities from funds raised by a modest days work.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:07 PM #56
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I'm sick of this income inequality talk. The "I work really hard to be a burger flipper give me my due" is just sickening talk.

Take that years worth of unemployement learn data structures and rails or .net mvc and then go get a real job making 80k+.

I'm really not joking....it's that easy and no college degree is even required. All it requires is a library card and persistence.
If you're too lazy to do that then I really don't give a **** if you're left behind.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:23 PM #57
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I'm sick of this income inequality talk. The "I work really hard to be a burger flipper give me my due" is just sickening talk.
If this is what you're getting from the conversation, then you're not paying attention to what people are saying.

My sister is a kindergarten teacher who hasn't had a raise in almost 3 years, but has seen the time required for her job increase by almost 30% in that time. Some weeks she make little more than minimum wage because she's working close to 70 hours. People like you would like to paint her as a lazy piece of ****, but the reality is that she works incredibly hard and will still make less after 20+ years on the job than I did my first year out of school. She will work hard regardless of her salary, but you'd prefer to thumb your nose at people like her because it's easy for you to claim the **** salary is deserving due to some inherent laziness.

The world needs kindergarten teachers, secretaries and farm workers. What it doesn't need are more personal injury lawyers, hedge fund managers and upper-level management positions. Salary isn't a primer for how hard one works, yet here we are.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:26 PM #58
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The world needs kindergarten teachers, secretaries and farm workers. What it doesn't need are more personal injury lawyers, hedge fund managers and upper-level management positions. Salary isn't a primer for how hard one works, yet here we are.
this. salary =/= importance to [a productive and successful] society, and it seems like not too many people currently in school understand this.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:28 PM #59
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If I cared about how important to society I was, I would be a minister.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:29 PM #60
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If I cared about how important to society I was, I would be a minister.
I see what you did there.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:43 PM #61
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Not in a malicious apocalyptic way, but in a selfish and greedy way, yes, desperate workers will put up with more, work for less, and can be replaced by other desperate workers. I'm not referring to your typical small business owner, but the mega rich who are becoming more and more in control of the shape of our nation. What do they care of the common man? Surely you don't think they would consider the well being of a measly worker bee over their next quarterly profit, do you?
Groovy. I just wanted to make sure how you feel about George Soros, Warren Buffet, and similar.

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And I see that when we bailed the banks out, it was likely the right call in the interest of saving middle and lower class citizens. Not bailing them out would hurt the common man. Having said that, we need to acknowledge that the banks know this, and find a way out of this hostage situation. I would also suggest breaking up the big banks, but I'm sure you disagree with me there. So what would you suggest?
Gonzo would be proud of your backtracking.

I don't agree with your premise that failing to bail them out would have hurt "the common man" in the long run. I doubt the common man would have lost much in account balances in the short run considering the level of FDIC insurance and the balances of accounts maintained by "common men". Bailing them out just reinforces them to do exactly what you advocate against, and that is where the "common men" lose out in the long run.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:51 PM #62
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And while hardcore conservatives may like the sound of this, most Americans enjoy things like roads, bridges, public service officials, a strong military, scientific research, medicare, and social security.
You are mischaracterizing conservatives.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:58 PM #63
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The world needs kindergarten teachers, secretaries and farm workers. What it doesn't need are more personal injury lawyers, hedge fund managers and upper-level management positions. Salary isn't a primer for how hard one works, yet here we are.
Why aren't more actors/actresses and professional athletes included in this?
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