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Old 02-18-2013, 01:33 PM #1
Lazarusrat
 
 
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It's all about the Children; Ours that is, we don't care about yours

Required back ground info:

Magpul is a company that builds aftermarket parts for weapons. One of their most popular lines is a PMag, a polymer 30 round magazine for the AR, M-16, M-4.

As they are based in Erie CO the comapny issued a statement to CO legislature that IF CO passes gun bans they would relocate their factory to another state.

Colorado lawmakers move forward on new gun-control measures
Quote:
DENVER (Reuters) - The Democratic-controlled Colorado House of Representatives approved a package of strict gun-control measures late on Friday, in a state rocked by two of the deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history.

After a marathon session that stretched late into the evening, the state House voted to advance the proposals with little support from Republicans, but with a boost from Vice President Joe Biden, who called several wavering Democratic lawmakers and urged them to vote for the measures.

The proposals passed on a voice vote, with a formal vote scheduled for Monday. The bills must also pass a final vote in the state Senate, also controlled by Democrats, before it heads to Governor John Hickenlooper's desk.

Among the proposals are bills that would require background checks for all gun purchases - paid for by applicants - a ban on ammunition magazines with more than 15 rounds and a measure to allow colleges in the state to ban concealed weapons on campus....

....


And a Colorado-based manufacturer of ammunition magazines threatened to leave Colorado if a ban on high-capacity magazines becomes law, taking some 600 jobs with them.

Democrats amended the magazine-limit bill to allow the company to continue to sell the magazines for out-of-state use, leading Waller to call the Democrats hypocritical.

"Democrats stood in the well of the House and recounted all the mass shootings nationwide, then put in the amendment that says the company can sell magazines in every other state, including those that had tragic shootings," he said.
Got to love their strenght of conviction on this one. 30 round magazines are far to dangerous for anyone in Colorado to own and they must be banned for the safety of the Children but they have no issues about a Colorado business selling them elsewhere.

I just hope Magpull has the balls to carry through with their threat.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:58 PM #2
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Option 1:
Pass bill with allowance for out of state sales of large magazines
Company stays in CO
Company keeps producing magazines for other states

Option 2:
Pass bill without allowance for out of state sales of large magazines
Company leaves CO
Company keeps producing magazines for other states
Either way, the magazines are still made for other states. There is nothing they could do to prevent that. They have absolutely no control over that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:59 PM #3
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It's an incremental step towards registration and confiscation. The complaint which got through the thick skulls of some of the Democrats was that Magpul employs a lot of people and brings in $40+ million in revenue. This is why they amended the bill to allow Magpul and other manufacturers to be exempt. They want to infringe upon your rights, but they want to keep the tax dollars in their pocket at the same time. However whether or not Magpul is exempt, they and others will leave the state.



Facts are irrelevant to these people. We've all tried reasoning with them; to explain the error in their ways. Yet none have heeded the warnings.

Last edited by Volucris : 02-18-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:57 PM #4
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No one here has yet to substantiate this:

"It's an incremental step towards registration and confiscation."

Also, it's a slippery slope fallacy anyways.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:28 PM #5
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The mandatory background checks are totally ineffective (outside of useless "stings") in eliminating illegal transfers and are totally unenforceable without registration.

They will push for registration next go around as the next "common sense" step.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:11 PM #6
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Sorry, I was thinking more in terms of confiscation. There is no connection between what was done here and full confiscation outside of conspiracy theories and bull**** speculation. The slippery slope fallacy has a lot more steps that need to be substantiated before we can claim any sort of connection.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:33 PM #7
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Sorry, I was thinking more in terms of confiscation. There is no connection between what was done here and full confiscation outside of conspiracy theories and bull**** speculation.
That's why it has happened in every other country that made people register their guns? And why have multiple states already introduced bills to confiscate guns? My state included.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:52 PM #8
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****, even blake understands this.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:46 PM #9
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That's why it has happened in every other country that made people register their guns?
Bull****.

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And why have multiple states already introduced bills to confiscate guns? My state included.
Again, we are talking about the connection between the two and the notion that one must follow from the other. You have yet to show or even address any of that.

---

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****, even blake understands this.
I would be much more concerned if blake agreed with me.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:17 PM #10
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Bull****.
It would probably be a good idea for you to take a basic history class.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:31 PM #11
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You're joking right? Currently the only developed counties in the world without full gun registration is the USA, Canada, and New Zealand and both Canada and New Zealand register hand guns and military-style semi-automatics. So, you think every developed country in the world besides us is currently experiencing full confiscation? Get the **** outta here.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:40 PM #12
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
military-style semi-automatics.
You mean the guns that look like military rifles but don't function like them? I don't see how their "style" makes them any more dangerous. Is the black plastic more dangerous than wood? You seem to think so.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:52 PM #13
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Freedom haters should just move to Canada and register their guns there. Don't let the door hit yah.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:55 PM #14
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Freedom haters should just move to Canada and register their guns there. Don't let the door hit yah.
But freedom haters don't have guns anyway.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:57 PM #15
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But freedom haters don't have guns anyway.
Well maybe we'll get lucky and they'll register their genitals instead. Hopefully the government will incinerate them after they are confiscated.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:44 AM #16
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
You're joking right? Currently the only developed counties in the world without full gun registration is the USA, Canada, and New Zealand and both Canada and New Zealand register hand guns and military-style semi-automatics. So, you think every developed country in the world besides us is currently experiencing full confiscation? Get the **** outta here.
It doesn't matter what other countries have done, I don't want people to know what I own. Look at what happened in New York recently: a newspaper printed the names and addresses of gun owners in their area and one of the owners was subsequently robbed. Anyone can use the freedom of information act to look at an inventory of my possessions. That's an invasion of privacy.

Also, registrations make it far easier to confiscate guns. The way it will play out is the same as it has in Europe: pass gun registration, ban specific type of gun, allow citizens 90 days to surrender/sell banned items to the government and then knock on the doors of the registered owners who didn't voluntarily comply.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:14 AM #17
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Shakey and Blake ruin every discussion with their worthless bull****.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:47 AM #18
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You mean the guns that look like military rifles but don't function like them? I don't see how their "style" makes them any more dangerous. Is the black plastic more dangerous than wood? You seem to think so.
Nice dodge. So, do you admit that "That's why it has happened in every other country that made people register their guns?" was bull****?

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It doesn't matter what other countries have done,
It does when you are arguing that registration must lead to confiscation and your examples are other countries (most of which registration did not lead to confiscation). Secondly, I didn't bring up other countries. Blake did. I simply proved him wrong.

--

Also, contradiction much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Other countries (most of which registration didn't lead to confiscation) don't matter:
It doesn't matter what other countries have done
Quote:
Originally Posted by Here is what happened in other countries:
The way it will play out is the same as it has in Europe: pass gun registration, ban specific type of gun, allow citizens 90 days to surrender/sell banned items to the government and then knock on the doors of the registered owners who didn't voluntarily comply.
--

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Originally Posted by Space Pope View Post
Shakey and Blake ruin every discussion with their worthless bull****.
QFT
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:34 AM #19
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Sorry, I was thinking more in terms of confiscation. There is no connection between what was done here and full confiscation outside of conspiracy theories and bull**** speculation. The slippery slope fallacy has a lot more steps that need to be substantiated before we can claim any sort of connection.
so we should just wait and see what happens until it's too late? No i'm good, i'll fight any stupid gun law to prevent us from going down that rabbit hole.

The NY gun owners thought a lot like you and just look where that got them. They set silent and didn't want to draw any attention to themselves by being combative and now they have the most strict gun laws on the books and confiscation was part of the original bill. Not only that but they have 1 year to get rid of the items in question or they're considered criminals, that might as well be confiscation.

To say confiscation isn't part of pelosi's end goal is just pure ignorance....hell she said it herself.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:45 AM #20
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It does when you are arguing that registration must lead to confiscation and your examples are other countries (most of which registration did not lead to confiscation). Secondly, I didn't bring up other countries. Blake did. I simply proved him wrong.
I wasn't arguing that. I don't know why you even bother responding to Blake in the first place. Does it make you feel big proving a known idiot wrong?

Quote:
Also, contradiction much?
The 'other nations' comment didn't really make sense. I meant it more of a 'just because someone else jumps off a bridge doesn't mean we should.'

What I posted is exactly what happened in England and Australia. It was an effective strategy to remove guns from the hands of law abiding citizens. Anti gun politicians in this country saw that and no doubt were taking notes. Sorry for the generalization, but I'm not going to check the exact curcumstances of each nation with a national gun registration.

The first step towards a confiscation has always been a gun registration, even though the confiscation doesn't always occur.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:56 AM #21
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Nice dodge. So, do you admit that "That's why it has happened in every other country that made people register their guns?" was bull****?

It does when you are arguing that registration must lead to confiscation and your examples are other countries (most of which registration did not lead to confiscation). Secondly, I didn't bring up other countries. Blake did. I simply proved him wrong.


Also, contradiction much?


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You are taking a bit of a silly position here...

You know as well as anyone that the ultimate desire of the people pushing this sort of legislation is the severe limitation, if not total elimination, of privately held firearms.

Remember in the early 90's how they wanted to ban ammunition loaded with hollow points because they were "cop killer bullets"? Remember how it was "common sense", "reasonable", "in the interest of public safety", and all that nonsense? This is no different. It is stupid bull**** being pushed by people who want nothing more than to remove firearms from society by pushing/exploiting the mistaken belief that it will solve our problems with violent criminal behavior.
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