[MisterAnon]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

He was being manipulative. That is in poor taste. Anon is throwing temper tantrums barrel isn't. We clear?


His conclusion is crap too:
I have the right to something because I want it. Want becomes a "right" when you start to believe you deserve that want.

not so much, just trying to understand a viewpoint. Not so much an arguement as a discussion on issues at hand that we face daily.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

You know what they say, "Two wrongs make a right".



I don't support his conclusion at all. I simply dislike **** argumentation in all regards (as should anyone).

I prefer to see is as Good men doing something.

[MisterAnon]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

It is "3 lefts make a right"

Back in 2008 and 2009, you were spot on with that one.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by MisterAnon

not so much, just trying to understand a viewpoint. Not so much an arguement as a discussion on issues at hand that we face daily.

"I'm calling you names, but only cause I'm trying to understand you."

Mmmhmm mmmmhm.

[MisterAnon]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

"I'm calling you names, but only cause I'm trying to understand you."

Mmmhmm mmmmhm.

quote please

[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by MisterAnon

quote please

The best way for you to learn from your mistakes is the identify them and reflect upon them. I've already done this for you anyway.

[MisterAnon]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

The best way for you to learn from your mistakes is the identify them and reflect upon them. I've already done this for you anyway.

Sounds more like a bow out since no direct name calling was done. The "good little sheep" comment was generalized to those that do everthing that they are told in a specific manner. But hey....thank you.

[barrel roll]

I'm not closed minded, I'm going for a run.

[Umami (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Volucris

Why should we berate these people? Because they have more money than us? Surely there are plenty of bad apples, but I fail to see how anon's attempts do much more than ruin the day for a lot of good people and hamper it for the few bad.

Lol, speak for yourself. I'm a typical Occupy white kid, upper middle class family and once I graduate I'm pretty much guaranteed a job and six figures. I don't care what they make, bankers are glorified administrators with no skill or contribution to society, who make a living charging interest while loaning your money to other people. The Bible refers to it as "usury".

Put your money in a credit union. At least fewer people are blatantly profiteering off your money there.

Originally Posted by Volucris

On the point you made saying they are doing this "to counter the massive amounts of lobbying done by business interests against the interests of citizens", what makes you think our interests are truly being represented here?

I never said my interests were necessarily being represented. As opposed to your worldview, mine has more than two sides. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, at least for now. Which is why I'll be following this closely, it has proven very amusing..

[Seahawk6060]

Originally Posted by Umami

Lol, speak for yourself. I'm a typical Occupy white kid, upper middle class family and once I graduate I'm pretty much guaranteed a job and six figures. I don't care what they make, bankers are glorified administrators with no skill or contribution to society, who make a living charging interest while loaning your money to other people. The Bible refers to it as "usury".

So you're a self-described "Occupy white kid," who presumably rails against greedy capitalists and economic inequality...yet, in the same breath, let it be known that you're "guaranteed a job and six figures." I suspect that if a banker offered you seven figures to work as a fellow "glorified administrator" you would turn him down because your social conscience wouldn't allow you to take advantage of the evil profiteering that permeates the banking industry. After all, it's nice to imagine that you'll make six figures without having to lower yourself to the level of working for a profit-based business. Some people dream, others live in an alternate reality.

Regarding anonymous, I too am somewhat sympathetic to public spirited resistance, it’s part of America’s DNA. However, when you indiscriminately attack innocent people who are just doing their jobs, I think you’ve crossed a line, in the same way terrorists blow up civilians to draw attention to their cause. At some point it looks childish at best and medieval at worst.

[stupidmandan]

Originally Posted by Umami

Lol, speak for yourself. I'm a typical Occupy white kid, upper middle class family and once I graduate I'm pretty much guaranteed a job and six figures. I don't care what they make, bankers are glorified administrators with no skill or contribution to society, who make a living charging interest while loaning your money to other people. The Bible refers to it as "usury".

Put your money in a credit union. At least fewer people are blatantly profiteering off your money there.

Do you legitimately not understand the crucial roles banking and finance, in general, play in society?

[Umami (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Seahawk6060

So you're a self-described "Occupy white kid,"

Only describing my demographic/taking a shot at Occupy. I do not associate with Occupy.

Originally Posted by Seahawk6060

After all, it's nice to imagine that you'll make six figures without having to lower yourself to the level of working for a profit-based business.

Oh, don't miss my meaning. I fully plan on becoming a small business owner myself at some point, and hope to make a profit doing so. But I'll do it by providing a legitimate product or service rather than the extortion that occurs at most national banks.

Originally Posted by Seahawk6060

Regarding anonymous, I too am somewhat sympathetic to public spirited resistance, it’s part of America’s DNA. However, when you indiscriminately attack innocent people who are just doing their jobs, I think you’ve crossed a line, in the same way terrorists blow up civilians to draw attention to their cause. At some point it looks childish at best and medieval at worst.

First point. If anonymous just did this, how many years ago do you think China did?

Second, this seems like far more of an inconvenience to the Fed than to the individuals involved. In the released documents passwords were heavily encrypted, probably more difficult to get at than from the website they were stolen from.

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

Do you legitimately not understand the crucial roles banking and finance, in general, play in society?

I understand its role. It is not as important as people who work in banking and finance seem to think they are. When "financial products" become n times removed from actually financing anything there is an ego problem.

[barrel roll]

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton

The future prosperity of this nation rests chiefly in trade. Trade depends, among other things, on the willingness of other nations to lend us money.

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

And how would you propose to establish international credit?

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton

Our first step would be to incur a national debt. The greater the debt, the greater the credit. And to that end I have recommended to the president that Congress adopt all the debts incurred by the individual states during the war through a national bank. The idea being that if the states owe Congress money, then other nations will feel more inclined to lend it to us.

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

If the states are indebted to a central authority, it increases the power of the central government.

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton

There you have it exactly. The greater the government's responsibility, the greater its authority.

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

The moneyed interest in this country is all in the north, so the wealth and power would inevitably be concentrated there in a federal government. To the expense of the south.

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton

If that is the case, it is unavoidable if the Union is to be preserved.

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

I fear our revolution will have been in vain if a Virginia farmer is to be held in hock to a New York stock jobber, who in turn is in hock to a London banker. The opportunities for avarice and corruption would certainly prove irresistible.

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton

Well there you have it, as I have heard said, "If men were angels then no government would be necessary."

Ah, history. I love you.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Thomas Jefferson was a hack.

[Iamamartianchurch]

Explain.

[barrel roll]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Thomas Jefferson was a hack.

[TheSilentAssassin]

He just copied John Locke and Montesquieu (poorly I might add). He brought nothing new to the table. In this day, he would be declared a plagiarist.

[Volucris]

Copy? No. Influence heavily? Yes. It doesn't discredit his statements.

[barrel roll]

I don't think the man is known as an author or philosopher. He is known as a man that took influence from many philosophers and, along with others, created the frame work for a new government that didn't rely on supposed divine right. He is, more importantly, known as a statesman.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Volucris

It doesn't discredit his statements.

This is my point exactly. The statements aren't even his to discredit. I see nothing new that he brought to the table. That is plagiarism by definition.

Originally Posted by barrel roll

I don't think the man is known as an author or philosopher. He is known as a man that took influence from many philosophers and, along with others, created the frame work for a new government that didn't rely on supposed divine right. He is, more importantly, known as a statesman.

He is certainly renowned as a great American thinker, which is what I am objected towards.

--

John Locke is a great chef at a grand restaurant. Jefferson is just the waiter that brings the food to you. Every person in America knows who Jefferson is but most think John Locke is the smoke monster from Lost. This saddens me.

Ultimately this is about a culture who is more concerned with particulars (TJ: American government) than universals (Locke: protect the people's natural rights, Freedom or choice of religious worship, limit the powers of government). I find that shift to be worrisome.

--

P.S. I am being hyperbolic for fun. I do not have a complete hatred for Jefferson or anything. Maybe being a bit dramatic.

[barrel roll]

lol, that is why Edison was viewed as awesome until recently where Tesla has made a sweet comeback. Or why the President is viewed as being in charge of and responsible for everything while the Legislative branch skates away smelling like roses.

Keep in mind who you are talking about. They won't be able to tell you that Adams (grandson) is responsible for the Monroe Doctrine, or other things in the same vein.