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Old 02-13-2013, 05:37 PM #1
benji25
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Raising Minimum Wage

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We know our economy is stronger when we reward an honest day’s work with honest wages. But today, a full-time worker making the minimum wage earns $14,500 a year. Even with the tax relief we’ve put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong.
Is artificially inflating wages "honest"? To me an honest wage would be what the market demands for your job. If you don't like it, get the skills for a new job. I am not advocating for zero minimum wage. The part of his statement that makes me the most upset is that he says "Even with the tax relief we’ve put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong."

No one makes you have kids. If you can't afford them, don't have them. Or if you want kids, get a job that can support them. Having kids is not a guaranteed right.

Don't try and justify a minimum wage based on things that people want to have. If they truly want those things, make them work to get it on their own. Minimum wage should be set at a level where you make enough to maintain an acceptable standard of living (food, shelter, clean water, access to education). If you want more than that, great. Go get a job to pay for it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:47 PM #2
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Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
No one makes you have kids. If you can't afford them, don't have them. Or if you want kids, get a job that can support them. Having kids is not a guaranteed right.
Now I'm not a fan of raising the minimum wage because enough economists smarter than me have convinced me its a bad idea, but I'm pretty tired of this argument. a couple making minimum wage with children need assistance to get ahead, not your perfect 20/20 hindsight.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:55 PM #3
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Originally Posted by automagsrule View Post
Now I'm not a fan of raising the minimum wage because enough economists smarter than me have convinced me its a bad idea, but I'm pretty tired of this argument. a couple making minimum wage with children need assistance to get ahead, not your perfect 20/20 hindsight.
So when they trying to get pregnant, why would they not have thought "You know, we can barely afford to keep ourselves afloat. But ****, I really want a kid. Let's have one even though we can't afford to take care of it."

And the kids was just the example he used. Minimum wage should be set were you can sustain an individual standard living where you personally have food, water and the basic necessities. Cable TV is not a necessity. Internet is not a necessity. Cell phones are not necessities. Cars are not necessities. In my opinion minimum wage should not be set so people can have all of these luxuries. If you want them you need to figure out how to pay for it. Inflating wages is not the way to do so.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:07 PM #4
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Still can't teach contraception in classrooms and lord help them for trying to make it available through healthcare. Guess where you can get it? Planned Parenthood. Guess who's always at a fight for existence. Planned Parenthood.

Maybe one day churches will hand out condoms and actually better society instead of spending all of the tithing money on pockets and bibles.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:10 PM #5
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Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
And the kids was just the example he used. Minimum wage should be set were you can sustain an individual standard living where you personally have food, water and the basic necessities. Cable TV is not a necessity. Internet is not a necessity. Cell phones are not necessities. Cars are not necessities. In my opinion minimum wage should not be set so people can have all of these luxuries. If you want them you need to figure out how to pay for it. Inflating wages is not the way to do so.
Minimum wage jobs are always a race to the bottom. If you set the bottom at a point where people can afford things like the internet, everyone wins. If someone's working 40 hours/week, it is reasonable to ensure they make enough to afford the things required to participate in the economy such as the internet.

tl;dr - your opinion on what people 'should' be able to afford shouldn't shape policy.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:12 PM #6
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Still can't teach contraception in classrooms and lord help them for trying to make it available through healthcare. Guess where you can get it? Planned Parenthood. Guess who's always at a fight for existence. Planned Parenthood.

Maybe one day churches will hand out condoms and actually better society instead of spending all of the tithing money on pockets and bibles.
Convert to my church (****ing heathen), all I require are tithings of soap sculptures and macaroni pictures.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:17 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
Minimum wage jobs are always a race to the bottom. If you set the bottom at a point where people can afford things like the internet, everyone wins. If someone's working 40 hours/week, it is reasonable to ensure they make enough to afford the things required to participate in the economy such as the internet.

tl;dr - your opinion on what people 'should' be able to afford shouldn't shape policy.
Policy is (or should) be a reflection of the "opinions" of society. So while my opinion may not be shaping it specifically, society's collective voice is.

And why should they be able to get the internet if they cannot afford it? This is what I think the problem is. The standard of living is astronomical compared to other countries. People think that the "deserve" everything. If we set the minimum standard of live to include luxuries, what is the point of ever trying to get a better job or an education? Pretty soon everyone will realize they can work 40 hours flipping burgers and have everything they want in life. Good luck getting little Jimmy past the 6th grade because he would have the necessary skills to have everything he "needs" by then. No need for college, we will just give him enough money to pay for it because he "needs" it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:20 PM #8
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So when they trying to get pregnant, why would they not have thought "You know, we can barely afford to keep ourselves afloat. But ****, I really want a kid. Let's have one even though we can't afford to take care of it."
Because every child ever conceived was a planned conception.

And I don't know why you are arguing minimum wage with me, I already said I agreed with you. I only really took exception to your stance (which is popular amongst the right leaning folk) that oh geeze those lazy good for nothings should have thought before becoming parents with minimum wage jobs. The problem is already established "well you should have avoided the problem in the first place" is not a viable solution at this point.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:21 PM #9
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Policy is (or should) be a reflection of the "opinions" of society.
Hwhat?
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:23 PM #10
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Originally Posted by automagsrule View Post
Because every child ever conceived was a planned conception.

And I don't know why you are arguing minimum wage with me, I already said I agreed with you. I only really took exception to your stance (which is popular amongst the right leaning folk) that oh geeze those lazy good for nothings should have thought before becoming parents with minimum wage jobs. The problem is already established "well you should have avoided the problem in the first place" is not a viable solution at this point.
I am trying to avoid leaning to the 'unplanned' part because that opens up a whole can of worms regarding a certain word that rhymes with sch-schmortion.

And the second part of that was more so an add-on to my first post than directed at you. My apologies.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:27 PM #11
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Hwhat?
We elect our representatives. They (theoretically) represent the voice of their constituents. Therefore when they are making policy in Washington they theoretically representing what their people want(read: their opinion). Ultimately the majority opinion rules.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:33 PM #12
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We elect our representatives. They (theoretically) represent the voice of their constituents. Therefore when they are making policy in Washington they theoretically representing what their people want(read: their opinion). Ultimately the majority opinion rules.
Sorry I forgot we aren't a constitutional republic.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:37 PM #13
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Sorry I forgot we aren't a constitutional republic.
We do democracy here in 'merhicuh. If you don't like it you can geeeet oooout.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:37 PM #14
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We elect our representatives. They (theoretically) represent the voice of their constituents. Therefore when they are making policy in Washington they theoretically representing what their people want(read: their opinion). Ultimately the majority opinion rules.
Except when its corporations that fund your election campaign.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:41 PM #15
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Except when its corporations that fund your election campaign.
As I indicated many times by saying "theoretically" and "should".

Anyway that is off topic.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:04 PM #16
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We do democracy here in 'merhicuh. If you don't like it you can geeeet oooout.
Where should I go?
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:14 PM #17
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Where should I go?
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:27 PM #18
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"What are you gonna do?!!"
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:05 PM #19
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Still can't teach contraception in classrooms and lord help them for trying to make it available through healthcare. Guess where you can get it? Planned Parenthood. Guess who's always at a fight for existence. Planned Parenthood.

Maybe one day churches will hand out condoms and actually better society instead of spending all of the tithing money on pockets and bibles.
If it's any consolation, people are having fewer children, which will mean fewer folks in the workforce supporting larger numbers of the elderly. And this is all happening without government social engineering. I fail to see how teaching kids how to properly unroll a rubber will make a better society.

Planned Parenthood simultaneously fights for its existence as it extinguishes others. I'm not against Planned Parenthood, but I'm not convinced that they hold the moral high ground either.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:28 PM #20
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If the issue we are trying to address is ultimately income distribution (poor people making too little), minimum wage is a poor solution.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:26 PM #21
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