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Old 03-07-2013, 10:23 PM #904
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how i feel in this thread right now..
lol me too brother
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:33 PM #905
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i like pe as a company and have a lot of respect for jack and nicky but the last time they released a "revolutionary" product that they called the geo. Everyone that bought one at release pretty much got screwed. We were promised a smooth shooting spool gun that would get 1500 shots off a full 68/4500. in turn we got a hand cannon (quiet only in comparison to the ego) that was netting 600-800 shots. Not to mention eye covers falling off from the vibration in the gun. There fix to the vibration was screws with a nylon patch. Through all of that Jack constantly told us he was getting 1500 shots yet wouldn't post a video. PE left us out to dry with their last "innovative" design as far as i'm concerned.
They didn't have lurker last time
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:55 PM #906
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from the internals i saw on the lv1 on the video, it seems a LOT more troubleshooting than before, and i mean...... LOTS more...... and more orings.
Jack said a couple times in the other thread that there weren't any new seals.

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They didn't have lurker last time
.

back OT - Josh, I like the split body design. How's it held together?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:01 PM #907
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They didn't have lurker last time
you're right but at the same time there are just about as many people that have issues with his products that don't have any issues.

on that note I will be ordering his bolt for my wife's axe when it gets here.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:13 AM #908
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I don't know why everyone complains about ion/luxe threading. I understand the majority of barrel threads are autococker threaded but the ion is better. It takes 2 turns to get my luxe barrel on fully my ego takes like 12-14. I could pull my luxe barrel off and squeegee it pretty quickly mid game if i ever broke paint with it. Luckily its a quite rare occurence I break any paint. I wouldnt even bother with an a/c barrel it would take too long.

I'm fine with either since its coming with a deadly wind anyway because you can buy an adapter and use it on multiple markers. Or maybe j4 will offer the highend w/o the barrel for those of us that have one already.

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Old 03-08-2013, 09:24 AM #909
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The Ion/Luxe threading is fat. It is a decent choice for a fat bodied gun, but the cocker threading is slimmer. This gun is only 1" wide at the most, so we would have to add to the gun to make a Ion Barrel fit. I feel the ion threading is too loose also. Mine always worked loose. Yes I had an Ion, and mine ran at 135psi with my 'SPI' bolt in it. And an Epiphany, which ran full velocity with the largest insert (smallest volume) and the SPI bolt.

We are looking at the body fit and we might change it a bit. Right now there is a tab on the front upper that a screw goes through, and it goes down through the front plug and into the front foregrip, holding it all secure. The back section is right behind the bolt pin groove. It is smaller, but the body has large alignment grooves also, so it sits very secure. It is overkill for strength, but we like that.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:32 AM #910
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So about that J4. Looks very cool. /BackOnTopic
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:42 AM #911
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Josh I had emailed you guys last week for pricing, any idea when I might expect a reply?

Thanks!
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:44 AM #912
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Josh I had emailed you guys last week for pricing, any idea when I might expect a reply?

Thanks!
I don't think there telling anyone pricing until they have a complete gun to show you and shoot for you.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:36 PM #913
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I don't think there telling anyone pricing until they have a complete gun to show you and shoot for you.
Maybe if we bug them enough, they'll tell us...
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:47 PM #914
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Maybe if we bug them enough, they'll tell us...
Negative josh won't budge
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:15 PM #915
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never had a ion threaded barrel come loose on any of my guns (pimp,3 ions,luxe) but almost every cocker barrel I own on almost every cocker threaded gun Ive owned has. Even barrels with orings

I too prefer imp just bc its a quick thread and alot more meat to the thread. I wouldnt care about a slightly wider marker just sayin
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:05 AM #916
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I have to jump in here. Please don't make it sp threaded. If you do, leave mine blank and I will have it icd threaded when it gets here. ICD>all other threads.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:17 AM #917
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I have to jump in here. Please don't make it sp threaded. If you do, leave mine blank and I will have it icd threaded when it gets here. ICD>all other threads.
He already said that if it was sp threaded it would increase the profile of the gun in the front so they aren't doing that.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:26 AM #918
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they are going with og automag barrels.

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didn't scare a lot of people away from DLX when they started up
yeah because the shocker has been around for ever lol And dary trentl was working with smart parts

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Old 03-09-2013, 11:42 AM #919
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So the g6r didn't up the ante? Lol good one! Considering its totally macro less, split body, case per 68/45 platform.
Don't get me wrong, I like the G6r, but it's really nothing new or special. Case per 68/45 had been around way before the G6r, Angel specifically comes to mind. The split body just annoys the crap out of me and really, when have you had to use it?
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:14 PM #920
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Quote:
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they are going with og automag barrels.
sold! taking my 14" old school AA outta the box.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:48 PM #921
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Even if the marker's process is ENTIRELY adiabatic, there is absolutely NO reason the tank and system process can not be ENTIRELY isothermal. Thinking like that only hopes to achieve innovations like cams, levers and stack tube spoolies.

Now even if the tank/system had to undergo an entirely adiabatic process, PV=E does not result in anything even remotely close to the internal energy of the tank (adiabatic release of gas). It's not valid. Please explain under what circumstances and nuances you feel PV=E is correct? P0E's numbers indicate the maximum potential energy of the system, work shown. I'm sure he would post the "it makes our markers look not so bad" adiabatic solution if you ask.

Regarding engineering, designing to worst case component characteristics is one thing, but you're talking dumbing down performance evaluations because you can not comprehend a way to achieve better. It's not like P0Es numbers are incorrect or there is an actual reason we couldn't exceed 22% of his theoretical maximum.

How adiabatic is a typical tank emptying process? Assume the firing process is entirely adiabatic and a 3min efficiency test is too quick for the tank to absorb any heat. We know the tank will EVENTUALLY absorb enough heat to reach a temperature equilibrium with it's environment. We also know the isothermal potential is massive compared to PV=E, so we should easily see an increase in shot count if we dramatically decrease the rate of fire, right? Say twenty shots per day? The thing is, you don't. You could go the other way and fire faster to determine where the process starts to be largely adiabatic. Increase rate of fire until you get a large drop in shots. Easy with liquid CO2, not to hard with gas CO2, nearly impossible with air thanks to the regulator and massive heat sink (source) called your gun.

I agree you will not see three cases from a 45/68 anytime soon, but not because it is impossible or even difficult. It has to do with human nature.

Josh,

Your posts have me rolling.

So the guy who realized a scuba tank could power a paintball marker says your math is good, and that's all you need eh? I made some money on the stock market.. .just saying.

To answer your question, yes I need more clarity. Your posts are partially incoherent and mostly give the impression of thermodynamic ignorance. Temperature does not get exchanged. Heat flows. Heat and temperature are two different things. These are processes we are discussing, not 'reactions'. Energy is not measured in Newtons. Did you mean to say Joules?

So the heat created in a hot fill is due to the quick expansion of the tank and air friction eh?

What thermodynamic process does PV=E fall under? How exactly is heat LOST during this (adiabatic?) process? Your job is mostly management right?

Are you saying there is no way for the tank to perform useful work using an isothermal process because there's no temperature difference and therefore no way for heat to enter the system? Is that what you are referring to when you say there is no heat "DeltaV", please elaborate. Do you understand where P0E's numbers come from and where the heat energy is actually located? Actually, yes, please forget all the other questions and lets see if you can answer that last one. Just tell me where the heat (energy) is located in P0E's isothermal process. In the metal of the tank, or gas inside, or nth dimension?

Tell me if I'm correct... you figured since volume times pressure results in in*lb, and energy can be represented with in*lb....... PV=E!

Maybe I'm just being too harsh, but if you're looking for pricing suggestions... I would say that an easier to clean Ion should retail for ~$250.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:03 PM #922
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So can you guys take that to PMs or something? Thaaaanks.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:17 PM #923
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I forget who even brought up the subject and asked, but I use the in*lbs metric because it is easy to calculate. I have done it on literally dozens of different gun concepts I HAVE built and tested over the last..shoot, nearly 15 years? That doesn't count the total crazy calculations I did where I measured all the internal areas of tons of guns (any one I could get my hands on) and calculated energy usage based on volume. And it all adds up with some small amount lost for the efficiency in the system. I don't know of many other people who have done anything close short of a few people around, like Ryan, Colin, Andy, Simon and related. I believe we all use the basic PV=E (or close, dPV=E is more correct, and then I normally remove the last 50psi in a dump arrangement, but that is a whole 'nuther conversation) or have when we did calculations in the past.

After the very long time I have been using it, it works. It is simple, and gets you within the margin of error that a barrel change can affect, and is consistent. That is why I use it with no modifiers.

Go ahead and believe P0e's theory. Feel free to run through the streets yelling it. But don't come on here with a pie in the sky untested theory that doesn't add up and laugh at me when I have done the math so many friggen times, and then APPLIED it to real paintball guns and parts I have built for 15 times longer then you have been on PBN. Neither you nor P0e have not done any of that as far as either of you have shown.

There is a comment about the first rule about a gunfight is bringing a gun. Well, mines right here on the front of this thread. Where is yours?


You are being rude. Extremely.

I don't agree with you. Deal with it. There is no reason to be a jerk, it is totally unfounded. I explained myself just as much as am going to.

I can't stop you from being an ***, but nobody here seems to appreciate it. You are off topic and unpleasant. While we come to expect that here on PBN to some extent, you have seemed to become what people don't like about PBN, and by being rude in my opinion you are not winning your argument.


Work on proving your theory, prove me wrong. Come back and open a forum discussion on the subject, be polite and I will willingly be called out there. But here? Really? It isn't even your calculations.


Right now you have a theory that might work for you, and I will accept it might even be right, and I might be wrong, which is something you do not seem to be able to do. I can do that without falling into an ad hominem fallacy also.

In finality:

My calculations work for me, and have for a very long time and I have piles of parts I made or had made that work with those calculations in real world usage. They work with everybody I talk to who actually makes paintball guns and parts. So I use them. That was the question, there is my final answer to you in this thread.

Good day.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:31 PM #924
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Got tired of reading the same word over n over. I agree with j4. Haha
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