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Old 02-03-2013, 03:09 PM #211
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Originally Posted by J4 Paintball View Post

Being able to pick up your gun and go play and not have to worry about it going down is the benefit. No hot shots. No FSDO. No putting it away some days of the week. Turns out it is nasty and cold at a tournament or scenario game, or the only weekend you have been able to get out in 2 months?

That's why. That is what we want our gun to be. The one you don't worry about.
THIS!! For the love of god this.

I have no problem maintaining my markers, trouble shooting etc... I enjoy it actually.. But as someone already stated.. When you pick up a marker that costs "under $2000", this is what you expect.

Very excited guys
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:34 PM #212
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Best thread in ages already we have drama, lots of sound business advice and something not seen in here for ages; something in paintball that is actually a new idea, applied elegantly and seemingly built by people who can respond to internet criticism without threats or flaming, unlike, er, everyone who runs and makes pretty much everything, just lately After five years of reviewing guns for PGI (R.I.P.,sweet prince) and doing E-mag stuff on and off till now, I shoot a DM9 and a milled Viking because they do the job (about) as well as anything since. I mean seriously, the most innovative thing in mainstream paintball in the last age has been...a squeegee.
This is the first gun in a very long time to make me start seriously thinking about ways to blag one soonest and I really hope they make a go of it. I just hope everything is tied up re patents, home security, personal defense firearms etc as I think if this works out it it could deliver where a lot of recent 'revolutionary' but slighty shoddy new stuff has promised but failed. Good luck chaps
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:38 PM #213
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My shown enthusiasm is not as much for the marker itself but the concept becoming real. I'm also almost certain J4 indicated on MCB there would be a mech version of the marker coming at at a later date. That would be the one I would be more likely to personally sink my money into. I'm stoked because pulled off correctly this could allow paintball to be what it is for pro players to a lot more people. Pro players don't spend half their time and money worrying about gear thanks to sponsorships and pro techs. Sadly even most 1.5k superguns are at least somewhat finicky in the wrong conditions and most are a pain to tech honestly. Not for those with good mechanical know-how, but i'll tell you for me and my other Psychology graduate student friends, it's no walk in the park. Were not a dumb group of people, we've spent the last 4-7 years in college/grad school, but teching paintball markers isn't super easy for everyone. Personally, as well as I understand the concepts and designs, I'm just not handy. 7 Orings, few dynamic seals and no tuning would be brilliant. Even at a high price, it would mean you buy it and just keep playing.

Kinda like what automags ruled the field. The tinkerers could grab cockers and play with em till they ran right, and those who were not as big on the tech table could shoot mags that need almost no work. There isn't a marker out there today with that kind of durability, and honestly if your playing comp. speedball with ramping your not gunna want to shoot a mech. Having a high end marker, and a high end backup can be a real pain if both are finichy and expensive to keep running clearly, and therefore a marker that captures their assets while avoiding the pitfalls allows tons more people to participate at a higher level in the sport.

I don't spend that kinda money on paintball markers, as I said earlier. So I can be stoked, from a distance without being disappointed like others. I laughed at people grabbing the Vaper, 1000$ for a marker from a company who had never proven itself? When you could get a well proven platform for the same/less? But at least J4 has an innovative idea, and while they won't match my wish price (and I fully understand about being a small company, you don't have the overhead to get production high enough to get cost super low) I think they will be between 6-800 personally. Which is, in my mind, an easier pill for a college student trying to play on a team to stomach. I'm sure many other students on here would agree that what keeps them from playing on a team or forming one is the cost, and unreliability of gear. I know a friend (non-student player) who got an NT11 that took weeks to get worker out of the box, and went back to dye several times. I can't imagine spending that kind of money for that kind of problems.

Everything I've heard about/from J4 tells me the quality WILL be there. These are people very dedicated to producing their design WELL and putting out a FINISHED product. I still wouldn't grab a first run, but i'm not handy enough to put myself in that position IMO. The design itself is what has me hyped, and while hall sensors have failed in paintball before, i've seen them used in similar applications and will say personally, the tech has come a long way in the last few years. A few of my friends at UVM have actually been working on a number of pneumatic tool designs that utilize hall sensors to basically "set dwell" though the terminology is different.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:50 PM #214
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Originally Posted by J4 Paintball View Post
The dwell works kind of like this:

Bolt moves (HE sensor tracks), add Xms to dwell. Track bolt forward. If bolt forward doesn't activate, add dwell.

In the case of 'Delicate', it doesn't do that, but retains the low dwell, so it will stop on a ball.

Normal adds dwell till it gets forward each time, till a max point.

Soldier On just adds dwell till the gun fires, or 255ms has been reached.

There is other issues in addition to that, but typing out the programming logic is not something I am going to do now. In the end if there is no HE sensor, you need to put in the adjustment for dwell. If you don't have an adjustment for it, then it won't always go. And if you have an adjustment for it, somebody is going to screw it up. It won't always be perfect. It won't always fire.

With the HE sensor, the gun just works, every time. You don't have to fiddle with it, test it, time it, and maybe have something screw up. In addition you don't have it set to always be on for 30ms just in case you get a sticky paintball, cold weather, or o-rings are a bit low on lube.

Being able to pick up your gun and go play and not have to worry about it going down is the benefit. No hot shots. No FSDO. No putting it away some days of the week. Turns out it is nasty and cold at a tournament or scenario game, or the only weekend you have been able to get out in 2 months?

This gun will work. You don't have to think about dwell. Go play. Take a few seconds, lube up the piston before the day starts, air it up and go enjoy a great day of paintball. And with the time you save, help your buddy dial in his gun, reset the LPR, make sure the dwell is good. He might like the hand...

That's why. That is what we want our gun to be. The one you don't worry about.
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification on how the HES is being worked into the marker.

Is there a noticeable difference in shot quality (smoothness) between having a dwell just right (with the HES) and having it over-dwelled?
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:06 PM #215
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It sounds VERY good to me. The more I hear about it, the more this is going to change things.

Nice to read how the HES works too.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:20 PM #216
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projected pricing?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:25 PM #217
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Originally Posted by dominantgazelle View Post
projected pricing?
Under $2000 and very good price point that information will be released before PBE
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:34 PM #218
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Is there a noticeable difference in shot quality (smoothness) between having a dwell just right (with the HES) and having it over-dwelled?
In a pure mech gun, yes - In the one mech I did I didn't have a pulse valve. It was a MSV, like a pneumag. So there was a cocker-ish feel, the direct connection to the trigger, the direct feel of the forward and back action following your pacing.

The electronic ones, not really, until you ran a really high (50ms+) dwell, them there was a slight hesitation, but that would be the bolt moving, stopping, pausing, moving back. 5ms had no reasonable difference.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:58 PM #219
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looks like a creed to me.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:51 PM #220
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looks like a creed to me.
Someone should keep track of how many times has been said in this thread.

On another note, I wonder how the air passages are sealed, and if there is a potential to blow out seals like on the G6R?
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:01 PM #221
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looks like a creed to me.
You got us.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:06 PM #222
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On another note, I wonder how the air passages are sealed, and if there is a potential to blow out seals like on the G6R?
Oh, that is the real trick. There isn't anything like that.

Wait, it is a Creed. However they did it.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:40 PM #223
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your patent is really well written, good job and best of luck. i look forward to seeing this marker come to fruition.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:58 PM #224
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we can turn this into a drinking game. From now till PBE, everytime someone makes a posts on either "this looks like this" or "X + Y made Z" we have a beer. lawl, I for one will post it about 30 times in a row
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:10 PM #225
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your patent is really well written, good job and best of luck.
Thank you!

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we can turn this into a drinking game
Oh, that would be very bad.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:42 PM #226
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Wait, it is a Creed.
You seen it here folks.

I seriously can't wait to see this Creed in final form. This is on my very short list of new marker to buy this year.

Very excited guys, this thing sounds awesome!

Last edited by Febo : 02-03-2013 at 11:43 PM. Reason: I know it's not actually Creed.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:30 AM #227
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Wish I knew what I was reading when I read patents..... Interesting tho!
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:40 AM #228
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excited to see the finished product
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:39 AM #229
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Sitting here being productive at work and had a question. What type of barrel system will be used for your marker? Will the trend of longer control bores be implemented? (Please say yes) lol
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:02 AM #230
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Oh, that is the real trick. There isn't anything like that.

Wait, it is a Creed. However they did it.
the mini did as well. The regulators doubles as the ASA.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:52 AM #231
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Wait... It IS a creed? I'm confused
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